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Kinetics [Tech Templates]

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#1
Rai Seren

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I've had three judges look at the same thing three different ways now so I think some clarification would be good.

The general gist of the idea is to modify the portion of technology templates in the resistances section. Currently there is an item listed as kinetics. I've had one judge tell me that blades come under Kinetics. I've had another approve a submittal of mine where I put blades separate. Now I've had one have me make a second line item and split it into Kinetics(Blunt) and Kinetics(Pierce).

Strictly speaking, kinetics would generally only refer to the former. There's also the fact that some things which are good against blunt damage aren't against piercing and vice versa (though some things are good at both).

So why are we lumping the two together and being inconsistent on it? Why don't we do what most Tabletops do and list them as Blunt and Pierce? Seems like people would understand that a lot easier. Not everyone on Chaos has a background that favors the sciences.

Figured I'd put this here instead of in Templates since it's not a board wide think and the factory is technically optional.

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#2
Kaine Australis

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The judges do their individual best. As submitting things goes, we've gotta understand that they're volunteers who do this for fun and give up their own time, and be patient and roll with things.

I think the judges themselves do their best to be consistent, but there'll always be slight differences between judges, as in the real world of judiciary; different judges have different styles. Theres the second chance system, or requesting a different judge already.
 

Im not sure changing categories is the solution here.

anyway, just my 2c

Rai Seren


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#3
Rai Seren

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Kaine Australis
I've been a judge before (Codex), so I know. I'm not mad at them, I just thing it's weird that everyone treats it differently and changing to Blunt and Pierce would be better. I made an armor for this character that is now high against blunt and Pierce when it should only be high against Pierce and average against Blunt, which was only because the judge made me combine the two. Doesn't make sense to me. Sure some things would be good against both, but not all things.

I believe tabletop games made the distinction because it makes things easier. Why can't we?

Again, not mad at the judges, I just see them as two different damage types so they should be separate.

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#4
Kaine Australis

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Sorry, didnt mean to suggest you were havin a go at the judges.

Im only going off what you said that you wanted clarification cos the judges all have different views on the subject.

I guess cos i havent played much tabletop, i see it from a starwars POV where theres rarely just basic blunt or edged weaponry, you see enhanced power mauls and shock blades, and lightsabers for example. For that reason i reckon things are complicated enough without distinguishing between a cutting or blunt melee weapon.

Rai Seren


Edited by Kaine Australis, 05 April 2018 - 07:25 AM.

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“It gives me strength to have somebody to fight for; I can never fight for myself, but, for others, I can kill.” 

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Armor - Gun - Cannon - Kad'Kyramud - Jetiikad'ika

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#5
Rai Seren

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Kaine Australis
I dunno. There's a huge difference in the damage the two do. Stabbing someone and hitting them with a bat just aren't the same. One is far more lethal than the other (though both can certainly be lethal).

As an example, say I submit something made of chainmail. Chainmail is excellent against stabbing and slashing. It grabs blades and keeps them from pushing through and the slash just clinks off it. But it's not that great against blunt damage. If someone were to hit it with a club it wouldn't break, but it would cause havic on your insides as it doesn't stop the blow at all. This example would work with things like armorweave, too. Or Shell spider silk. Etc.

I know everyone might not see it that way, but felt it was worth bringing up.

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#6
Kaine Australis

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I entirely agree, having taken a rocket at point blank range to the beskar chestplate recently and suffering serious internal injuries. :)

I'd be interested to see an example of chainmail in use in starwars though!

Rai Seren


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“It gives me strength to have somebody to fight for; I can never fight for myself, but, for others, I can kill.” 

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Armor - Gun - Cannon - Kad'Kyramud - Jetiikad'ika

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#7
Rai Seren

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Kaine Australis
Armorweave and she'll spider silk both perform in the same manner as chainmail.

Also, rocket to the chest sounds painful.

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#8
Kaine Australis

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Rai Seren Both examples you used are not going to have a rapier tip find a link and go through like they would with chain mail. Armorweave is similar, but its not open links like chainmail, its a very very fine mesh, and no sword is that fine.

Anything that would pierce, especially a lightsaber or enhanced weapon that could pierce spidersilk, is likely to pierce plate.

And i really, really, don't recommend the rocket to the chest.


Edited by Kaine Australis, 05 April 2018 - 07:46 AM.

Kainika.gif

“It gives me strength to have somebody to fight for; I can never fight for myself, but, for others, I can kill.” 

RoQEwot.gifBombad-General.gifMpNVDrh.gif

Armor - Gun - Cannon - Kad'Kyramud - Jetiikad'ika

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#9
Rai Seren

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Kaine Australis
I have concerns that you're not getting the point (pun intended). It's not a matter of how they stop it, it's a matter of the fact that they stop it. Shell spider silk and armorweave are good against blades but offer little to no protection from a blunt weapon. That's what I'm getting at. They're two different damage types and not everything is good against both or bad against both so lumping them together doesn't make sense.

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#10
Kaine Australis

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I think we're on the same page, sort of.My point with the rocket was that the beskar plate did absolutely nothing for the kinetic or blunt damage of the blast, hence the internal injuries. When youre talking ballistics instead of energy weapons, a plate will stop a bullet too, but the kinetic force still packs the punch, it just doesnt pierce.

Rai Seren


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“It gives me strength to have somebody to fight for; I can never fight for myself, but, for others, I can kill.” 

RoQEwot.gifBombad-General.gifMpNVDrh.gif

Armor - Gun - Cannon - Kad'Kyramud - Jetiikad'ika

SoA-3.gif


#11
Rai Seren

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Right. Blunt versus Pierce. Your plate stopped it from piercing, but didn't stop the Force of the impact. They are two different things, so at the very least we should be allowed to modify the template in our subs to differentiate between the two. Or the template should be modified to differentiate.
Kaine Australis

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#12
Kaine Australis

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No worries, i think we've reached the 'going in circles agree to disagree' point. I wish you good luck. Rai Seren


Edited by Kaine Australis, 05 April 2018 - 08:20 AM.

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“It gives me strength to have somebody to fight for; I can never fight for myself, but, for others, I can kill.” 

RoQEwot.gifBombad-General.gifMpNVDrh.gif

Armor - Gun - Cannon - Kad'Kyramud - Jetiikad'ika

SoA-3.gif


#13
Jamie Pyne

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This will be looked at. Thank you.


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