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Lift the Ban on Hypergates

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#1
Gorba the Hutt

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If you give a Hutt a cookie...

 

We already have netherworld portals. Hypergates are just non-force user versions of those. 

 

I trust the community to use them responsibly under admin supervision.

 

#Believe


Edited by Gorba the Hutt, 18 May 2018 - 07:14 PM.


#2
Jamie Pyne

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Gorba the Hutt

 

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#3
Alaric

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If we're asking for impossible things...

 

Why not revisit RM mixing, specifically in the context of Force Imbuement/Alchemy and Nanotech, where it makes zero sense that you cannot alchemize a piece of phrik or beskar (I swear if I am asked I could probably find you canon examples), and in nanotech it would just be a balance factor.

 

Note: The other instances make perfect sense, it gets to be a headache to balance and I get and remember that. The above two just... No sense is made...


Edited by Ijaat Mereel, 18 May 2018 - 07:22 PM.

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#4
Darth Metus

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It's not like players don't already show up everywhere IC with fleets and such.

Might as well.

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#5
Alkor Centaris

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God, let's just peel off all the labels and let the problem sort itself out.


#6
Cira

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It's not like players don't already show up everywhere IC with fleets and such.
Might as well.



That’s what I said!

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#7
Hannibal Oryen

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My hypergates will be built exclusively with nanotechnology, and will feature a defensive array composed entirely of lightsaber rifles.


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#8
Jamie Pyne

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Why not revisit RM mixing

 

I will actually answer this, because it's a fair question.

 

The primary reason I wont revisit this idea is because it complicates things. If I start drawing up a sheet of This can be mixed with this, this, and that, but not these. This here can be mixed with this and this but not that, then within that very same announcement, the first post in response will be "This is too complicated, the restriction should be entirely lifted to make things easier." And I just don't want to travel down that road because I know full well precisely where it leads to. The reason it is this way is because it's simple and clear and requires no cross-checking on behalf of members or judges.


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#9
Alaric

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Jamie Pyne - I think you read the first line of my post and stopped.

 

Because clearly I stated my request and idea was in terms of mixing Force Crafting and Nanotech with metals/source materials like beskar/phrik/cortosis. The blending of said source materials is silly. I know it. You do. What I actually suggested had zero to do with what you responded to, I feel. It's simple. But hey, I was mostly poking fun and Gorba and grumping at my pet grump. It won't kill me or agitate me much.


Edited by Ijaat Mereel, 18 May 2018 - 08:00 PM.

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#10
Jamie Pyne

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Ijaat Mereel

 

No. I read the post. And what I responded to was in direct response to your entire post, while clipping the first sentence for brevity.

 

You are asking very specifically for three things to be allowed to mix with Imbuement, thus, requiring a list of things that are allowed to be mixed and a list of things not allowed to be mixed. And my response is the same: Once that road is started down, its inevitable end is "Let us mix everything." And I'm not up for entertaining that idea. And yes, I agree, it's not ideal, but it avoids charts and cross-referencing.


Edited by Jamie Pyne, 18 May 2018 - 08:05 PM.

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#11
Captain Larraq

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Having a hypergate won't allow you to do anything you can't already do. You wanna March an invading army through a hypergate and onto an enemy planet? Cool. Sound cool, looks cool. But in Chaos terms where matching armies and fleets magically show up at the same time anyway, using a hypergate doesn't actually get you anything new.

The closest thing to a Hypergate on Chaos was something that I made. A starship that can spawn a wormhole and use it as a GTFO button for abandoning a thread. I had to jump through a lot of hoops to clarify that the "practical" speed of travel via the wormhole was no different than traveling via Hyperdrive. It's just a bit cooler and entirely unpredictable in terms of destination.

I think that, regardless of hypergate remaining banned or not, that's all you'll ever really get out of them. A slightly flashier version of what you already have.





And in terms of mixing restricted materials... I'd honestly just propose yanking alchemical/whatever stuff off the list. Most of the effects gained through that stuff are entirely achievable through "technological" means. Hell, you can even get some similarly crazy effects from 'Vong bio-tech (which I'm surprised isn't right up there with Alchemy on the current list).

Alternatively, you could just have Tier 1 and Tier 2 restricted materials. No Tier 2 restricted materials can be mixed together. Any Tier 1 restricted material can be mixed with a single T1 or T2 restricted material. But only at Unique levels as Tech only. Or something stupid like that.

*Shrugs*

Now that dev threads are gone, it seems like it's mainly about denoting what production rating is appropriate for the submission. If you end up changing things a bit on the RM front, it could lead to finding a new benefit to working for a tier 6 workshop.

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#12
Jamie Pyne

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Alternatively, you could just have Tier 1 and Tier 2 restricted materials. No Tier 2 restricted materials can be mixed together. Any Tier 1 restricted material can be mixed with a single T1 or T2 restricted material. But only at Unique levels as Tech only. Or something stupid like that.

 

This is actually an interesting suggestion and does give something to think about. Thanks :)


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#13
Itash Mecetti

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I really dig Larraq's suggestion.

 

On the subject of Hypergates- I feel like Chaos is going through a natural development of loosening restrictions as much as possible to increase writer agency, which is really great to see. I think there are valid concerns when it comes to Hypergates, but for instance they do not have the 'Superweapon' quality that the Kwa portals have. RE: weaponized to destroy entire worlds, etc.

 

So with the context that these gates really only provide an IC rationale for an OOC reality? (People starting off on worlds in invasions or pop from one planet to the other) I think the community has matured to the degree that they deserve a chance to try this out.

 

If it becomes abused, dramatic, it can always be yanked out again.

 

Just my two cents.


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#14
Zark

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I may be somewhat biased because I used to write a Gree character on my old site, and I don't really have anything super fascinating to add like the others, mostly just speaking up to add to the yea voices.

 

I think doing something like shifting hypergates from banned to restricted materials would make a lot of people happy while also doing something to safeguard against the naysayers' worst fears of abuse. This would prevent things like hypergate proliferation and reduce the chances of some of the more fringe use cases that factory staff could take issue with. The judgment process should serve just as it always has to weed out the folks who want to use them to do crazy things like teleport in massive waves of reinforcements, and what we'll most likely be left with is a rarer form of stargates which is an aesthetic/trope that I at least believe warrants incorporation into our homebrew on some level.


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#15
Darth Morgoth

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My only issue with this is that currently if there is a defensive planetary shield you can't just ooc poof around that. whereas a hypergate could. That is my concern. 

 

On the issue of restricted materials tiers I tend to agree. For instance I have had to get special permission and join a major faction to use sith alchemy on a ship for something a nerve helmet could do. That seems kind of weird if its meant for balance sake. Alchemy doesn't really seem to have many benefits that you don't find in high technology anyways. I honestly think it should be removed from the list, and in the case of fringe op things the judges will definitely find a way to help the player power it down.

 

However the tier system I do agree with for the simple fact being that with the exception of alloys a lot of things could be ballanced and use two restricted materials. Isotope5 energy shield with a cortorsis casing? Sounds fun to me...


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#16
Tathra Khaeus

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Captain Larraq

Darth Morgoth

Itash Mecetti

 

I agree with all of these points and to address Morgoth's concerns. This is basically like DnD, but with a ton of Homebrew.

Chaos is homebrew. So, let's just make it so our hyperportalgatewhatevers aren't as OP as canon ones?

 

You need a connection, and a ray shield or whatever or super powerful force barrier or something disrupts said connection for the hypergatethingy. That way, it solves the issue of people bypassing peoples planetary defences ect. 



#17
Captain Larraq

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What if...

Instead of unrestricting Hypergates as a technology...

What if Hypergates were an optional Major Faction Mandate?

Edited by Captain Larraq, 23 May 2018 - 05:45 PM.

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#18
Tathra Khaeus

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Captain Larraq

Ayyye, I agree



#19
Lily Kuhn

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What if Hypergates were an optional Major Faction Mandate?

This sounds like a suggestion to the forum, not the factory.


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#20
Darth Vesper

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Captain Larraq has a good idea - I'd love for Hypergates to be legal, although I'd also like for it to be something you have to work for a bit like an SSD, just so that they're something special.

 

I feel like if we're discussing the possibility of a ban on Hypergates being waived, it also would be good to consider lifting the blanket ban on Rakata, Gree, and Kwa technology.