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Discussion: Adding Yuuzhan Vong bio-technology and Ysalamiri to the Restricted Materials list

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34 replies to this topic

#21
Lily Kuhn

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John Ash

It was submitted before or around the same time the other bral was pulled, so I was under the impression you were referring to a newer one.


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#22
John Ash

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Lily Kuhn

 

 Nope. I doubt a second set of bral would be allowed to be used by the same faction Especially a stealthed version. That one is defensive, but it is countered by artillery pretty bad. Even if the rounds don't damage the unit you have to worry about overstimulating the ysalamir causing their hearts to give out.



#23
Julian Valentine

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FU: Yes plz no more ysalamiri
NFU: plz keep ysalamiri

It's almost like everyone's opinion is bias HRMMMMM



Be responsible for Ysalamiri, there are counter actions you can take. I just did a skirmish against a bunch of FU's and their first attack killed the nutrient pack Julian was wearing by standing outside the bubble and throwing a cart at Julian's pack with the force. SPLAT goes the reptile.

Just like people need to be responsible with Beskar, disruptor rifles, shatter guns, lightsabers.. THE FORCE. The Force can literally create tsunamis and whirlwinds and somehow a ysalamiri is unfair smh


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#24
Jo Americus

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All restricting Ysalamir would do is reduce its usage to Semi-Unique without a t6 company pushing it to Limited.

Semi-Unique means ten Mandalorians can stand shoulder to shoulder and have far-reaching coverage.

So I don't see how adding Ysalamir, or Vong Tech, to the list will do anything. Egregious uses of either (RIP OG Bral) get reported and pullled for imbalance/abuse as it is.

That, and Ysalamir are the go-to counter for ridiculous force usage. The fact that they are publicly available makes them a viable weakness to every Alchemy/Force-related submission. The fact that they're publicly available gives the new guy and his NPC squad a fighting chance against Darth I-Can-Throw-Star-Destroyers.

Not seeing the benefit. It's a no from me. :/

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#25
Enyo Typhos

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I vote no.

 

 

And all my active chars are Force-users and I don't even like Vong. lol



#26
Fabula Caromed

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Have people tried the "don't be a dick" strategy with ysalimir? I feel like that'd be a great starting point.

 

Making something a restricted material doesn't stop its abuse. It just makes people put in slightly more effort to abuse it. This won't do anything but make existing ysalimir-based tech stronger by nerfing all future options. Negatory.

 

Source: Also FU main. Fought against brals.



#27
Klesta

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John Ash My starting point to give at least a modicum of NFU functionality to a FU in a duel would be proficiency with ranged weapons, preferrably something that can reasonably hit at longer ranges. To me it seems that some FU-intensive writers may be unable to adapt to dueling at long range, or that longer-ranged dueling seems unappealing from a storytelling standpoint. Or that the storytelling rewards of fighting the opponent face-to-face would somehow outweigh the long-range liability, which I feel it doesn't. One may also wish to ask the question: why is it that most FU-intensive writers seem to be willing to duel other PCs only at point-blank range or otherwise at short range, and be unwilling or unable to fight at longer ranges?



#28
Captain Larraq

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Knowing how quickly many of these threads descend into Chaotic bickering, I'd like to applaud everyone for maintaining civil discourse in spite of the disagreements you may have.

Fabula Caromed

I agree entirely, but one of the points I wanted to raise with this is that Ysalamiri and Vong Bio-tech currently do not require the same level of effort as the other technologies on the RM list in spite of offering very similar capabilities. Yes, there is a soft cap on that as many judges are already treating both of these as semi-restricted when they hit the factory and need to be balanced. But is leaving the Vong Bio-tech and Ysalamiri avenue off of the restricted material list really the best option when balancing against the other avenues already policed by the list? Especially considering the high standards judges already use when balancing these currently? Would it not make things clearer to just add these to the RM list so some of the less familiar submitters know what they are getting into when they try to use these organisms in a submission?

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#29
Jay Scott Clark

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Ysalamiri and Vong Bio-tech currently do not require the same level of effort

 

I'm okay with this.

 

I'm pro NFU empowerment.

 

I say nah.



#30
Captain Larraq

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I'm pro NFU empowerment.



Right. But why do we have Restricted Materials in the first place, if we're not concerned about balancing out the abilities they provide to those who use them? If we don't care that Biots can resist Lightsabers and Ysalamiri can offer extremely effective protection against The Force, then why do we keep any of the Restricted Materials on that list?


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#31
Triam Akovin

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I see a lot of people pointing fingers and then people reacting to those accusatory fingers on the matter of "who is a FU and who is not". We are all FU's and NFU's, whenever we want to be. The point is moot when one is considering whether someone is biased or not, since we all have the capability to host multiple faces with as many types of identities as we want, whenever we want to.

 

Hint: we are all biased with our own opinions, because nothing we are currently discussing are factual, and are 100% opinions.

 

This isn't a "Pro-NFU" or "Pro-FU" thread. This thread is about adding something to a Restricted List because the items in question have similar capabilities to the other items on that list.

 

So either these don't get added, or maybe we should consider just getting rid of the list altogether and giving complete discretion to the Factory Judges who already do too much work for our entertainment.

 

That will be my last 2 cents here :P


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#32
Captain Larraq

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So either these don't get added, or maybe we should consider just getting rid of the list altogether and giving complete discretion to the Factory Judges who already do too much work for our entertainment.

 

That will be my last 2 cents here :P


Once upon a time, it was an important distinction for something to be RM or not. But now, with the current 8-point resistance rating and the (strict-ish) manner in which Factory Judges require a submission to balance out its resistances against its list of strengths and weaknesses... the final product gets pretty well balanced regardless of what it's made of. There are some sticking points I have against some things, such as "maybe the more extreme ends of advanced starship sensors, components, shields, weapons, exc should require a point or two of rating reductions to keep them more fairly balanced" (which is entirely off-topic and not worth discussing here)... But by and large, the Judges have been doing a very good job lately.

If we get rid of the current RM list, and keep the Judges doing what they do in terms of ratings limitations, then things should be just fine.

If we keep the RM list and add to it based on the capabilities of a given material, and the Judges continue doing what they are doing, then things should also be just fine.

Either way, I think things will balance out. I'd just like to see things swing one way or the other. I have my preference and I entirely understand if others feel differently. I also understand if people don't want to bother and just want to keep things as they are. 


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#33
Darth Orthus

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*Drops Link for Captain Larraq *

 

Alright, now I can go be inactive again.


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#34
Cyrus Tregessar

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maybe the more extreme ends of advanced starship sensors, components... should require a point or two of rating reductions to keep them more fairly balanced"

 

Shhhhhh.


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'It makes no difference what men think of war, said the judge. War endures. As well ask men what they think of stone. War was always here. Before man was, war waited for him. The ultimate trade awaiting its ultimate practitioner. That is the way it was and will be. That way and not some other way.'

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#35
Eralam

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There are good arguments to be made on both sides of this equation. 

 

On a site with tighter standards in regards to conduct in combat, restricting Vong and ysalamiri would make a great deal of sense. But since we live in a world where people throw Star Destroyers, stop hypersonic tank rounds, and perform bicycle kicks with the power of their minds, it's kinda hard to justify. I think we can all agree that Rule of Cool seems to be a higher priority than strict adherence to anything resembling etiquette in these parts. 

 

There are plenty of folks who put the FU back in Force User. Let the NFUs stay spicy and crack down on individual cases as needed. 


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