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Fix the Bounty Board



Best Answer Koda Fett, 04 May 2019 - 08:17 AM

I mean, if anything, this the only discussion I have any weight in: two cents are in preparation phase.

 

I adore TheBountyHunter™. There is something about their setting (dangerous, volatile, filthy and degenerate) that really connects to me, and I love to explore it. But an RP doesn't always make for the greatest translation, and there are plenty of things that are lost in that translation when one is adapting to an entirely different scenario. There might be all these different concerns about the system and how or why it doesn't work or it's faults, but it really stems to a lack of participation.

 

I think that people are never really invested in the plot-line of being pursued by a Bounty Hunter because they often receive these things for such minute reasons that have no real consequence on them, their character, or anything that should entertain them. It really only further stalls their own plot, and I find that to be entirely reasonable. I haven't read through everybody's responses because I am absolutely lazy and I would rather speak my own mind rather than tip-toeing around something that might have already been said but mostly it's just laziness.

 

I think the easiest ways to correct these issues are to create more reasonable bounties. You shouldn't be throwing them out as soon as they become the slightest burden, it's boring and moronic. They should feel as if they deserved to have one placed on them for an action they did, and so on. And let's not make them worth billions of credits. I know that there's already a suspension of disbelief when space wizards hit each other with their glow sticks and medieval knights wear jetpacks and shoot lasers, but when the price is too high it just feels lazy and lessens interest.

 

I realise I've started every paragraph with "I", even this one, but who cares. I'll admit that some of my favourite threads have been bounty related (capturing Lady Kay, the seven-man hell-in-a-cell on Caridia) but a lot of those enjoyable bounties have since been claimed. You're really stuck with the scraps. You can't really doing anything other than treat it more seriously. If it was fixed I'd likely really come back in full swing again.

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#1
Gand

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The Problem

 

The bounty board system isn’t working.This is evident by a simple glance at it, as only 6 bounties have been posted in 2019. This is a problem because it inherently makes characters such as bounty hunters and assassins more difficult to play in their natural environment. Personally, I believe that having guys like vintage(Pre-Mandalore) Boba Fett, IG-88, Bossk, Aurra Sing, and late-career Asajj Ventress helps bring the flavor of “Star Wars” to the board, and are tales worth exploring. The bounty board has its faults, as does everything, but I argue the main issue can be boiled down to a few overarching problems. We'll call them Risk, Purpose, and Scale.

 

Issue 1: Risk

 

The first issue is the participation of the hunted. Now, I can’t say I blame them in honesty. Many bounties are posted “To the death”, with extra incentives for killing them. Even if a bounty is nonlethal it’s can still be a hard thing to accept having your character being imprisoned for a while. Some writers have gone so far to saying things such as “Good luck finding me, I just won’t join open threads” or “Please don’t make threads with me, just look for me in open threads” as a result of these potential consequences.

 

Issue 2: Purpose

 

The second issue is purpose. The majority of bounties posted aren’t really bounties in the traditional sense, but rather declarations of foreign policy or letters of marque. Instead of posting a bounty on a Dark Jedi that lead a raid on a facility, a mercenary team that stole medical supplies, or some sort of Minor faction most bounties can be summarized as "I'll pay billions of dollars for you to kill this extremely important figure. While these are by definition "bounties" they aren't really within the scope of the traditional bounty hunter. Therefore would-be-bounty hunters are caught between playing to their character or becoming a high-class political assassin.

 

Issue 3: Scale

 

The last issue is scale, or more specifically the scale of the rewards. Instead of the bounty board being a place for potential bounty hunter characters to find work, it often serves as a place to show off ones wealth. Looking through many of the Bounty Threads a lot of the replies end up being something akin to "Well, Faction X is paying 200K for Faction Y, but Faction Y is paying 250K for Faction X. Choices choices", or alternatively "You're only paying 10M for this Sith Lord? The Republic offered 50M back when it was a thing". While such discussion isn't necessarily a bad thing IC, most of these comments come from an OOC peanut gallery that don't further the purpose of the bounty board: to give bounty hunters a method and list of writers to create content with.

 

 

Solution:

 

Issue 1 is fixed by changing the stakes. Put a "gentleman's agreement" of sorts as one of the categories in the Bounty Template. Something like "IC Consequences" or "IC Aftermath". Then the client can either pick from some pre-defined categories or just write something out that doesn't mean the end of a character or plotline. Some examples could be "We'll put you in a Supermax prison and you can break out", or "We'll start an open thread to get you to trial/prison and people can break you out", or if your of a more darkside persuasion something like "We'll prepare you for a public execution, during which you can escape/be rescued". A lot of bounties are made in good faith, with a "IC actions, IC consequences" perspective, and airing out some forms of consequences would put more writers at ease. 

Issue 3 can be fixed by using systems similar to the way the Codex deals with population numbers. No one really has an idea of what 60 million credits means for your character, but by creating a scale we can give an idea of the wealth a bounty might bring in. Here's an example scale I like:

 

  • Mass: This type of payment could supply a bounty hunter for anywhere between a week and a month or so. These are typically mass bounties given on a "Per Head" basis.
  • Small: This type of bounty could supply a bounty hunter for a few months, or perhaps upgrade a piece of equipment. This is appropriate for smaller problems, for example a notable but small time drug dealer, or someone who owes a minor debt to the Hutts.
  • Medium: A sizeable bounty that could supply a hunter for a long while, get a fancy new piece of equipment, or perhaps a loan on a ship or home. These jobs are where Bounty Hunters begin to gain notoriety and reputation in their craft. These are typically given for prey who are significant problems to organizations, or personal grudges to high-wealth individuals. 
  • Large: A lucrative bounty that bounty hunters point to as a lasting measure of achievement. This payment could be used to retire a while, buy a ship, or purchase exotic personal equipment. Many bounty hunters at this level begin teaming up with other professionals. This level bounty usually represents a large threat to a sizable organization like a high-tier company or Faction. 
  • Apex : This level bounty could set up multiple hunters up for retirement,allow a minor faction to buy volumes of military equipment, or give a major corporation a nice windfall. These bounties are normally used to attract the attention of major organizations rather than individual hunters, and almost always represent a Major Faction's "Public Enemy Number 1"

 

This scale would not only combat "One-upmanship" that happens at times, but also advertise "Hey, you can put a minor bounty on a minor thing that happens.", allowing for more interesting grunt work to occur. This helps with Issue 2, but Issue 2 can also be helped by limiting how many high level bounties an organization can put up. For example, let's try this table:

 

LevelIndividual Companies & Minor Faction Major Faction
MassAs Reasonable As Reasonable As Reasonable
Small5 As Reasonable As Reasonable
Medium 110 15
High 0 3 5
Apex 0 0 1

 

I'll admit I just kind of threw those numbers together, so they may not be right, but incorporating and acknowledgement of consequences, a general pay scale, and limiting the amount of top dollar bounties aroundwould make the Bounty Board leagues better than it is right now. 

 

 

 
 

Edited by Gand, 02 May 2019 - 07:11 PM.


#2
Strider Garon

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Let bounty hunters invade threads to get their target. With in reason.


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#3
Jend-Ro Quill

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Company tiers aren't a thing anymore. Otherwise, sounds like a...gand idea.


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#4
Gand

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Company tiers aren't a thing anymore. Otherwise, sounds like a...gand idea.

 

Oh dear, I'm showing my age xD. Edited though. 



#5
Connory Monroe

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I support this 100%

#6
Captain Jordan

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I love this. Especially with the talk about the faction mandates (some of which relate directly to bounty hunters), this could help make this kind of RP reasonable again. I feel like Chaos has been missing a structured hunting element for a while, since the factory change, so this would be a big help towards restoring a style of RP that's surely desired and can be fun.



#7
Jahan Lionheart

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I like this idea alot!! Gand and yours too Strider Garon. A new system or look would be nice.

 

I agree i think BH should be able to invade threads with their target in it. Within reason. From my experiences the Bounty system really comes down to OOC communication and boundaries. Anything can happen sure but tbh people like and put time into their characters and would rather not have them die or even be touched by random hired guns. Which is :( to me cause the IC story it could create is limitless and benefiting to both writers and characters. A system that lays down more clear outcomes for both parties is interesting.

 

 

 

 



#8
Sekhet-ka-nefer

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I agree to all of this! I don't even have any bounty hunting characters, but heck. They need more love, yo.


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#9
Fatty

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I agree with the intent of the concept, but unfortunately (and I apologize for the pessimism ahead of time) I don't think it would help with the broader issue of why bounties on an RP board generally don't work, and you've all mentioned it already and it wouldn't change by changing a bounty hunters reward.

 

The crux of the issue is player agency, if a player does not want something to happen and a different one does, generally speaking the one not wanting something to happen wins because otherwise its a breach of consent. In other words, technically powerplaying? Which for obvious reasons is a no-no.

 

So how do we solve this issue?

 

I don't know, but perhaps incentivize the bounty huntee (not the bounty hunter) to participate would be a good start. Dangle a carrot over them, see if they bite. What should the carrot be? I also don't know. If they aren't interested in the story as is, I'm not sure what other tangible stuff we could provide that would change someone's mind about participation.

 

That's my two cents.



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#10
Captain Jordan

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Fatty

I do agree with this. I don't think the suggestions of breaching thread privacy is going to solve that issue, either. I can think of a past incident where someone might have done that to me, and it's terrifying to think about how stories that had nothing to do with a bounty (or similar story) could have been impacted.

The targets do need a reason to participate, especially beyond just the implied promise of "a trial/imprisonment/execution attempt but you can escape."

#11
Quoron Cadera

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Why not require a dice roll, the bigger bounty the bigger the dice?



#12
Gand

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The crux of the issue is player agency, if a player does not want something to happen and a different one does, generally speaking the one not wanting something to happen wins because otherwise its a breach of consent. In other words, technically powerplaying? Which for obvious reasons is a no-no.

 

I agree wholeheartedly here.

 

But I still think this idea could work, or is at the least a step in the right direction. I won't say all, but I feel like most players are willing to trade a lick here or there. I feel like if you can get out in the open and say "Yes, ICwise my character wants you dead, but that's not going to happen" when you set up a bounty people will be much more willing to play ball. 

 

I may be overestimating how many people we have willing to do that. Perhaps incentives are necessary. I'd hope not, but regardless of whether they do or not the Bounty Board needs to change in some capacity. After looking through all 10 pages of of bounties only 26 had been claimed as complete and of those 10 were items, equipment, raid calls, etc. 

 

95% of bounty threads go unfulfilled. I don't know what % of bounties should be completed, but its gotta be higher than the 1/20 or so we've done over the last 5 years. 



#13
Captain Jordan

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A lot of it is going to come down to player cooperation, yes. The target has to be as willing to play ball (outside the select faction mandate) as the hunter. And the hunter has to stick with any promised post-capture threads to allow the target to continue on their RP and not trap them in unwritten limbo.

 

I think what you have, Gand, is a good start for standardizing the bounties. I think incentives for the target are going to be critical unless the culture/rules change as far as player agency goes, which is largely a non-starter here. I'm not sure what could be offered now, a lot of the player-level incentives (like dev threads for factory or codex) are defunct, as are corporate tiers, so other than simple per-contract negotiation over it I don't have a good suggestion.



#14
Allya Vi'Dreya

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Alright, so my thoughts.

 

1. You shouldn't be allowed to bust into private threads or faction threads. You derail a story that isn't yours to do so. However

 

2. I think we should reoganize the bounty board, with the level of bounties as was talked about earlier. I think, fun, within context bounties for NPCS, be it hunting people, objects, etc, is a good idea. Let people post ideas and bounty hunters work together to make the story. We can also have people be the DMS for these things.

 

3. While we are at it, we create a consent thread. If you consent to having your character hunted put it here. We also make it so there has to be a solid reason behind the bounty being placed. It can't be "because they exist" or "They pissed me off" we need genuine cause and effect. And have bounties be within reason, not these farces of one where people keep stacking bounties on top of each other because someone made them angry.

 

Not everyone will consent, but if they do, talk and work with them. And frankly, as for a reward, a secret group that pays out when you defeat the bounty hunters. So when you win, against the ones trying to defeat you, you get your own reward for hunting the hunters. What do you all think? Does this make sense?


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#15
Kaine Australis

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Top notch idea, support 100%.

Anyone not willing to accept a bounty being placed on them with the consequences of such, should be banned from placing bounties.

In the past i've always been willing to accept scraps with hunters as part of the course of having a public presence on Chaos. When i've been asked, i've provided a hunting thread, or worked to make a good skirmish out of the story.

Where I draw the line is characters associated with me being forced into such stories. A bounty that reads "Family or associates" shouldn't be a thing. Too wide a scope, and it forces those outside of the story to be part of it.


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#16
Immortal Cyan

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Following off of Fatty's comment (which is very good BTW), here is one suggestion for an incentive for the bounty huntee to participate in a thread with a bounty hunter.

 

1. If the bounty huntee participates in a thread with the bounty hunter and emerges victorious, the individual who set the bounty on the huntee is responsible for writing a Unique-scale factory submission to the exact specifications of the huntee.

 

So, say for example, Kaine Australis sets a bounty on me, and Strider Garon decides to go after that bounty. If I decide to participate in a bounty thread with Strider Garon and I emerge victorious, Kaine Australis must write me a Unique-scale factory submission to my exact specifications. In essence, he becomes my factory slave.

 

I may (or may not) come up with more. Hopefully others will come up with better ones.



#17
Kaine Australis

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Immortal Cyan That is quite brilliant, and exactly the sort of incentive needed. Nice!


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#18
Tathra Khaeus

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​I love this idea, but as Fatty said; the crux of the issue is player agency.

 

​Let's also look at how the bounty placement tool has been used in 2019? Vyrassu, ect. It's all been OOC driven, it's all been somebody hating somebody because of drama. So I agree their needs to be solid reasoning, even perhaps with thread links of 'evidence' of their crimes.

 

​Player agency will always be an issue, because most people who get along and are willing to write together are in factions together; not leaving a whole lot of room for civilised bounty hunting. Especially when, most people are very controlling over what is even in the realm of discussion of happening to their character. [which I think is silly, personally].

 

​Should bounty hunters or such be able to join faction threads? Yea, I think so. Do you know how bounty hunters usually get their targets? By messing up their day. This, is made much more difficult when people can just slap a private or faction tag on their threads and suffer no consequences beyond what is inter-factional.

 

​I'm all for this, and for more invasive mandates that allow aggressive players to be aggressive.

 

​But again, it needs to be reasoned and even though it means more work for someone; an application method of some sort should be considered for legitimacy of bounties or vendetta's.


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#19
Kur

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Most points I agree with above.

 

I also feel that a lot of bounty postings are, as mentioned, a combination of ooc drama/spite, too broad a categorization (whole clans, for example), far too rewarding credit-wise (hundreds of millions for an individual), and fall under an acquisition's (bountee, in its proper term) reluctance to engage due to either the finality of the bounty (kill) or unwillingness to be 'defeated'.

 

On the case of outrageous credit rewards, let's consider some canon bounty claims:

 

 

Jabba the Hutt eventually became so irritated with Han Solo that he placed a bounty on his head of 224,190 credits.[3]Luke Skywalker once had a bounty of 60,000 credits against him from the Galactic Empire for the destruction of the Death Star. This irritated Han Solo because, at the time, it was higher than his own bounty.[4]

Following the Battle of Yavin, the Galactic Empire placed a bounty of 10,000,000 credits on the head of Princess Leia Organa.

 

In those three examples, we can clearly see that the rewards for current bounties are ridiculous. Leia had ten million placed on her, yes, but this was following Yavin and years of continued engagement and opposition of the Empire - not simply because she made a snide remark about someone and they got offended in Discord, and then started a dog pile of others adding X millions to join the fun. It's also worth pointing out that even at its most hated enemies, the Empire preferred acquisitions to be delivered alive.

 

I would go further and say bounties, as they stand, also lack continuity. A majority are posted at the drop of a hat, usually due to OOC reasons (you know who you are), and there's no weight or narrative behind them. This could also result in a general unwillingness to accept such a posting, since the reasoning is more or less baseless and lacks merit.

 

So yes, a rework needs to be done. I support a variation of what was proposed, while also having definitive rules against reactive OOC postings or spiteful blanket claims (individuals mostly, small groups in special circumstances). Also more reasonable totals for bounties, and a focus on willingness to be involved and take part in said bounties - namely, if you post one, you're willing to RP hirings, events and resolutions. Not just a type and forget mentality, leaving it up to the hunter to solve (which usually results in nothing happening).

 

I would also suggest a general limitation on posting bounties: If you're dropping them like hotcakes, and not seeing a result or conclusion IC, you can't keep posting new bounties. Ideally, post a bounty, see it through, have a plot conclusion, then post another.

 

Basically, the onus should be on all involved, not just the acquisition and the hunter.

 

 

 

Gand

 

Something else to consider, which might be a viable means of categorizing bounty types/rewards/conditions:

 

 

Bounties were sometimes categorized into local bounties, system bounties, sector bounties and regional bounties

 

Using such canon terms for classification types could tie in more so with SW, and still serve a similar purpose to your chart above, but with that closer IC/canon connection.


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#20
Koda Fett

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✓  Best Answer

I mean, if anything, this the only discussion I have any weight in: two cents are in preparation phase.

 

I adore TheBountyHunter™. There is something about their setting (dangerous, volatile, filthy and degenerate) that really connects to me, and I love to explore it. But an RP doesn't always make for the greatest translation, and there are plenty of things that are lost in that translation when one is adapting to an entirely different scenario. There might be all these different concerns about the system and how or why it doesn't work or it's faults, but it really stems to a lack of participation.

 

I think that people are never really invested in the plot-line of being pursued by a Bounty Hunter because they often receive these things for such minute reasons that have no real consequence on them, their character, or anything that should entertain them. It really only further stalls their own plot, and I find that to be entirely reasonable. I haven't read through everybody's responses because I am absolutely lazy and I would rather speak my own mind rather than tip-toeing around something that might have already been said but mostly it's just laziness.

 

I think the easiest ways to correct these issues are to create more reasonable bounties. You shouldn't be throwing them out as soon as they become the slightest burden, it's boring and moronic. They should feel as if they deserved to have one placed on them for an action they did, and so on. And let's not make them worth billions of credits. I know that there's already a suspension of disbelief when space wizards hit each other with their glow sticks and medieval knights wear jetpacks and shoot lasers, but when the price is too high it just feels lazy and lessens interest.

 

I realise I've started every paragraph with "I", even this one, but who cares. I'll admit that some of my favourite threads have been bounty related (capturing Lady Kay, the seven-man hell-in-a-cell on Caridia) but a lot of those enjoyable bounties have since been claimed. You're really stuck with the scraps. You can't really doing anything other than treat it more seriously. If it was fixed I'd likely really come back in full swing again.


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