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Thoughts on restricted and banned items

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#1
Kaine Australis

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A question that's come up now and again, especially from new players is "do i have to submit my thing". The community consensus seems to be, unless youre going to use it in PvP, most people will roll with it.

So here's my suggestion. A "Story Mode Only" tag for submissions. This would allow people to express their "creativity" with those items too powerful or gamebreaking to be allowed in open or competitive RP.

If someone wishes to make a supremely powerful weapon, artifact, station, or other submission for RP and story purposes, this would allow those things to be created, without the risk of such overpowered stuff impacting on things like Invasions and PvP in general. A clear separation between items intended for open RP, and for closed or intra-faction RP.

TLDR : Let people use whatever banned stuff they want, provided its tagged as Story only. It's not going to impact on those who haven't chosen to be part of said story.

There's my 2c.


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#2
Scherezade deWinter

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Since you can't auto-hit, people won't be impacted by your weapon anyway unless they want to be, even if it's super strong. Factory no longer judges on balance either, and most submissions are approved as is as long as they break no rules and aren't reported.

 

Story-purpose submissions are already a possibility :) Here's the one I made, for example.


Edited by Scherezade deWinter, 12 May 2019 - 08:09 AM.

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#3
Orex Mauda

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Scherezade deWinter

 

Factory doesn't judge on balance..?



#4
Scherezade deWinter

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Orex Mauda Yes. You can read about it here.

 

Submissions still need to adhere to the rules though :)


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#5
Orex Mauda

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Scherezade deWinter

 

Ohhh.hh.hh. Cool. 

 

Thanks!



#6
Gir Quee

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On one hand, I can completely get behind letting people do what they want in a private thread. I can even get behind people making ridiculously overpowered Factory submissions and only using it in private threads for story purposes.

 

TLDR : Let people use whatever banned stuff they want, provided its tagged as Story only. It's not going to impact on those who haven't chosen to be part of said story.

 

The issue with using banned tech is that it creates story continuity problems, especially since stories can start out as private affairs that very quickly become public, even almost board-wide affairs. It's not a clearly demarcated line.

 

Let's say that we use that teleportation submission that you made. What happens if that same ship and location of the receiving station are in the same positions they were in the past during a story thread, but now it's become a competitive environment (skirmish, invasion). It's hard to not justify using stuff like that from an in-character perspective then. If you could teleport to a strategic location instantly, why wouldn't yourather than take the time to jump into a shuttle and take the time to travel there with the additional risk of getting shot down?

 

The other issue is that private story threads can later have an impact on public/interfaction events. As a good example of this, consider the ME dominion of Eshan and then the resulting invasion that occurred afterwards. What was clearly a private affair became a massive board event. In cases like these, it's quite possible that the people coming into these events won't have any say in the background of those stories.

 

Factory doesn't judge on balance..?

 

The Factory doesn't approve or deny subs based on balance alone, but we strongly recommend making balanced subs, especially if they're going to be used in competitive environments.

 

That does not mean that theFactory won't pre-emptively regulate subs based on other things though, suchas the concept of superweapons, banned technologies, or the 'what is Star Wars' principle.

 


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#7
Auberon

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Last I remember, To win in our biggest PVP setting, an Invasion, you needed to write a story better than that of the opposing side. 

 

Since Invasions are by that definition Story based, I feel that what Gir brings up is an all to real possibility of a work around that people would exploit. 



#8
Kaine Australis

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Gir Quee I take your point there. Let me just raise a counter to that, using existing examples;

Currently people can have 80000m civilian stations that can move and hyperspace around the galaxy. These are not allowed to be used in combat. Say one of these stations is being used, same as your example, in a private RP that quickly becomes a public one. Even if the logical in-character action is to use the ship as a weapon; you're not allowed to in the rules. Even though a station that big could hold 50 squadrons or more of starfighters, you're not allowed to use the submission in that way.

What I am suggesting with story items such as the teleporter would find itself restricted in the same fashion. Even if a situation arose where it might make sense to use the story item, you're simply not allowed to.


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#9
Jay Scott Clark

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Kaine Australis - The "Non-Canon" tag exists to express this kind of freedom in an RP.

 

I'm good with that. :D



#10
Kaine Australis

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Jay Scott Clark Appreciate that point. We already have RP tags for those RPs that dont fit within site rules. Why not for submissions as well?


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#11
Jay Scott Clark

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Jay Scott Clark Appreciate that point. We already have RP tags for those RPs that dont fit within site rules. Why not for submissions as well?

 

Because if it is going into a "Non-canon" RP, then nobody cares. Thusly, we don't bother anybody with it. :P

 

Anyway. I've done blog pieces before that were essentially factory posts for personal campaigns and such. But I wasn't impressing them upon anyone. Not a judge, not for feedback, and most certainly not for anybody else's gosh-darned "approval". *punches other people's opinions* :D

 

Rant aside. You mentioned new people in your opening post. So look, just tell these folks that Non-canon RPs can exist and that if they feel they need to make a "Campaign Guide" or "Item's List" or whatever. Tell them that blog's work great and so does an 0ff-site google doc. Because, again. If it's going in the "Non-Canon-F-The-Rules-I-want-FREEDOM!" category of RP? Then Tef don't care and we don't bother the judges with it anyway.



#12
Kaine Australis

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Jay Scott Clark I agree with you there, there are certainly avenues to do this already.

The new factory is supposed to be about less judge involvement and more freedom. I quite like the factory system, the templates, etc, and i cant see that the odd STORY-ONLY marked submission in the approved section is going to cause any harm to other RP.

 

The judges dont do reviews anymore without a report, so I struggle to see why its necessary to deny people something they want to use in a non-competitive RP.

 

(disclosure : this discussion came about because something i subbed got denied for breaking rules, when it wasnt intended for open RP use. so there's a tad of self-interest in this.)


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#13
Jay Scott Clark

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(disclosure : this discussion came about because something i subbed got denied for breaking rules, when it wasnt intended for open RP use. so there's a tad of self-interest in this.)

 

Kay

 

Tough love time then. The banned items list exist because "reasons". Whatever. It's a website. Who knows, who cares. Not my deal. I've changed enough rules on this site for a lifetime. Anyway. Follow them or GTFO.

 

Or... Do a Non-Canon RP and slather your body with honey and strawberry jam to the mood music of Matthew Perry's dancing GIFs. You know. Mate with a Zeltron's pink poodle in an Ewok's marble bathtube during Life Day at your parent's house. ...Because yeah.At the end of the day. Nobody cares. So we're not going to bother the Factory staff with it. We're not going to make rules about it. And, (quite frankly), I'm sorta embarrassed we're having this conversation about it right now too.

 

Anyway.

 

You do you. I'm okay with everything on the banned and restricted list thus far. But again. That's just me. :D :P



#14
Kaine Australis

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Jay Scott Clark There are no stupid conversations so long as one person learned something they didn't know before. Cheers!


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#15
Gir Quee

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Jay's already hit an alternate way around using the Factory, and I won't rehash what he's already said so nicely. I will affirm though that the Factory is optional, and that one of the main reasons it exists is so that other people have an idea of what you're using.

 

Currently people can have 80000m civilian stations that can move and hyperspace around the galaxy. These are not allowed to be used in combat. Say one of these stations is being used, same as your example, in a private RP that quickly becomes a public one. Even if the logical in-character action is to use the ship as a weapon; you're not allowed to in the rules. Even though a station that big could hold 50 squadrons or more of starfighters, you're not allowed to use the submission in that way.

 

Correct.

 

You mention the hangar holding starfighters, which I think only reinforces my point here, as we explicitly state that within the station template itself that civilian stations cannot hold starfighters. 

 

But lets look at the larger picture.

 

The Factory does artificially limit things that may well be fully probable in a Star Wars setting. That's because while we're looking to keep relative freedom for people, in the end, we still have to consider how submissions affect the board and the community overall. That's one of the reasons why mechs aren't a free-for-all to make Gundams, even though I think it would be a possibility to do just that given what we've seen of canon technology. Nukes and superweapons fall into the same category here for why we regulate them. It's an artificial distinction to be sure, but it's one we do to ensure the general enjoyability for most of the board's writers.


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