Are we Warriors or are we pushovers? [GADF/NJO]

[Coren Starchaser]

This galaxy was at war. There was a time for peace, and a time for action. A time for meeting with allies and a time where meetings will give the enemies of any decent citizen in this galaxy a chance to continue to dominate and change the course of events. Sure, the Alliance was here to end the Sith, and that would alter the galaxy, but right now? The Sith were running unchecked. They were stepping into meetings of the Jedi only to get placed into a holding cell.

Right into the compound that the Sith were going to be looking to destroy.

Coren Starchaser was having enough of this frakking garbage.

And with the way the Sith worked, and Coren handled the situations, he was aboard the Tyrene and had called the various groups who used the Force within the GADF as well as the Jedi for a small meeting. Things were going to need to be said. He was a member of the Underground, and he knew what it was like to fight for survival. Not this garbage of the Jedi holding a Sith for questioning.

The Force users within the Alliance needed to be a wall, there was sacrifice involved to fight the forces of darkness. They made the galaxy for others.

And his point needed to be made. That was why he was waiting in the conference room, the one that allowed for secure network holocalls to be made, as well as visitors to board and be shuffled into.

The disconnect between himself, other Forcers and the Jedi needed to be settled before the Jedi started taking prisoners that were going to be so plenty in their cushy cells that they overthrow the Alliance from their own damned detention center. When people began signing into the talk, and settling into the meeting room, the man would begin.

"This is war, ladies and gentlemen, and with our government, and the GADF enlisting various Force groups to fight alongside their own soldiers, there needs to be communication between these groups and the Jedi Order." He still said Jedi as if it was as filthy a word as Sith. "This is war, plain and simple. And the Sith are not known for playing nice."

 

[Julius Sedaire]

Julius strode into the meeting looking rather calm for the most part. Oddly enough, the hullabaloo of the last few weeks in battle and such had brought a calming sense to him in some means. He was finally focused and had a purpose. and even if it was changed a bit from the first time, he finally felt more like the old him than he had in years. The man was dressed simply, traditionally for once actually. He had kept all his old things from his time with the Order, and he honestly just didn't know what else one wore to things like this, so he had donned the old tans and browns of a Republic Jedi, clipping his saber to the belt around his waist. Occasionally he'd reach down to touch the butt of the handle, as if to remind himself it were still there. He hadn't done a meeting like this since the Order, if he was honest, and even then he wasn't terribly familiar with them.

Taking a position somewhat removed, he nodded to Coren as he walked in. He had gained a reputation as a quiet, if sincere, person and that was fine by him. He was still finding his way and place if he were honest. So a little distance here and there was just ok by him. Until he sorted out the snarl in his head it was likely best he didn't go making too many friends or anything crazy like that. Leaning against a wall, eschewing a chair, he sat and watched others spoke and entered. Comments by him were apt only to be made after he had heard the opening arguments, so to speak.

[member="Coren Starchaser"]

 

[Jacen Voidstalker]

Jacen had arrived in person. When there was an important matter to be discussed he simply found holocalls to be impersonal, and always ended up feeling awkward talking to a shimmering blue image. The anger was still radiating from Coren in pulses, clearly the discussion on the future of the Sith had riled him up.

He slowly crossed his arms across his chest and raised one eyebrow. Defensive, just as he had been when dealing with Corvus Raaf on Ossus. "Shall we move onto the point? Tell me Commander Starchaser, the GADF and the Supreme Commander are not suggesting the Alliance authorises the execution of prisoners, in violation of every Galactic wartime agreement, are they?"

[member="Coren Starchaser"]

 

[Coren Starchaser]

Coren fought the Sith, like everyone here had. And it was well known that the Sith lied, they didn’t have any hesitation against it, and coming into a Jedi and friends meeting? That was ballsy, there clearly had to be another reason. Sith didn’t come looking for redemption. It was words, empty promises. It was useless to those who actually could think. He understood Jedi couldn’t just go around murdering people.

But a Sith coming in, and then the New Jedi Order reaching out to Taeli Raaf, a former Sith herself? That bit didn’t sit well with Coren. He looked at the ones gathered and collected his thoughts, especially after Voidstalker’s question, and cutting to the chase. He liked Jacen. He got to the point, and didn’t beat around the bush, not like other Jedi he had dealt with.

“I’m not representing the GADF, and not coming here on behalf of the Supreme Commander. Prisoners shouldn’t be executed. But seriously talking to former Sith? That are being given free reign from the Republic?” He took a breath. “I’m here as a Force user not part of the Jedi. When push comes to shove. I need to know the Jedi aren’t going to be chasing mine down for doing what needs to be done. Sith… they’re not our opposites, there is no balance that can be found in those who are murdering civilians.”

Sure, keep them in a prison, but talking, and seriously questioning them? Sith spun lies.

[member="Jacen Voidstalker"]
[member="Julius Sedaire"]

 

[Relit Vandal]

Relit had a strong opinion on this matter, one that could dictate his presence in the alliance. So needless to say, he was more than happy to come to this meeting and discuss things face to face. And with the comfort of a seat at his back, he scooted forward to the table and gesticulated.

"Power...and self preservation. Those are things which motivate a Darksider. They aren't here to help us, they are only out for themselves." He stopped. "An apple can taste wholesome and still be rotten and unfortunately, we live in an age with far too many rotten apples." He looked towards Coren, having not fully worked with the individual. "We must insulate the Alliance from the impact of the Darkside, prevent the corrosion. But the galaxy is filled with thousands of capable prisons."

He looked back towards Jacen. "I would be against any form of mandated policy in regards to executing prisoners. We aren't the Galactic Republic, we are above dictating the value of someone's life when given the chance to consider it." He looked back towards Coren. "And we have that chance."

"But I agree. A Sith is a poor informant. Their information lies the route towards manipulation."

[member="Jacen Voidstalker"]
[member="Coren Starchaser"]
[member="Julius Sedaire"]

 

[Kurayami Bloodborn]

[member="Jacen Voidstalker"]
[member="Coren Starchaser"]
[member="Julius Sedaire"]
[member="Relit Vandal"]

Kurayami had gotten here just in time to hear Coren's opening statements and the rebuttals of the others in the room. He himself hadn't said anything yet as he wasn't entirely sure how they would respond to his views. Granted after the whole deal on Sullust, he had a rather deep seated dislike of Sith. In and of itself however, that wasn't too odd, though the whole ordeal with getting shot on SUllust made him dislike the Sith that much more. He had seen the others in the room all step up to the plate and work together during the battle. He knew that the decision made here would be one that would have lasting consequences.

While there was no doubt that the Sith's bread and butter was in lies and deceit, if they were careful they could play his own plans against him, or even turn them in their favor. Problem there was that it would require lies and deceit on their end which the Jedi were not known across the galaxy for recognized for. Rather unfortunate in this circumstance.

His hands fell to his holstered pistols on his hips out of habit, his voice betrayed little of the true depth of hatred and anger he held towards the Sith.

So, from my understanding we have an extremely arrogant Sith in custody. Just hangin' around over a pool of magma, and we have the ability to drop him in and let him see what the afterlife has in store for him...or we can continue to question him and risk being lied to. Both sound like a fun time, one because of the incineration involved and the other because who doesn't love a good fight?

He paused a moment before continuing on.

My big question for you all is how many lies has he told us so far? Also keep in mind that if he is a former Sith that he may have a great repository of insider information we could make use of, or other contacts within the ranks that feel as he does. Besides, two can play his game. He likely made the choice he did expecting a bit more kindness than he was shown. Remember though that there is always something we can exploit no matter how well laid his plans. Or if we play our cards right, even turn them around on him. Sure both require a bit of lying and making deals that we don't intend to keep, but such things would have a better chance of catching him off guard and forcing him into a move that he cannot foresee. Whether we keep him alive for questioning or let the volcano do what it does best isn't my call...my vote though? Kriff him, he deserves it in the end. Let him beg for redemption before letting him take a swim. Just my two cents on the matter.

Having finished his impromptu rant/speech, Kurayami fell silent once again. This was going to prove a rather interesting meeting he hoped, and if any of them were uncomfortable being the one to end the Sith's life he would happily volunteer to do so, though it seemed that Coren felt much the same.

 

[Sarge Potteiger]

Sarge was becoming quite used to these meeting rooms, and by and large he was only interested because he had a certain level of experience to be passed down. They would be told what he'd learned, but if they listened? Well, that was up to them. He was beyond forcing his point of view onto others; he'd been down that path many times before. His polarized visor swept to each person as they spoke, in turn, his seven foot frame broad as a bulkhead door and twice as thick.

Absently curling his fingers, he finally looked to [member="Coren Starchaser"], who seemed to be the mastermind behind this meeting.

"I am to understand, then, that the question is what do you do with a Sith?" He asks, because while many focused specifically on the Sith they had in custody, they were concerned now with 'precedent.' How do you handle it. "If you will permit a tired man a brief speech, perhaps I can shed some light onto the situation."

As if to prove his infirmity, he pulled out a chair and lowered himself carefully into it, mindful that it could shatter from the weight of his armor. It did not. Thankfully.

Still, he settled himself in. "I am unsure as to whether or not any of you are aware as to my identity. My name is Sarge, and in my time I have been Force-Dead, Jedi, and then dictator for the largest military industrial complex in the galaxy." No boasting, merely fact. "I was given Force-Sensitivty by an artifact back during the dark times, when the dead rose on Dagobah to swarm across the galaxy.

In learning of said potential, I left the Protectorate to become a Jedi going by the name of 'Preacher.' This is the first time I have uttered such an admission aloud. I was, I believe, viewed as a pragmatic Master, possessing great wisdom and skill with a blade. I mastered Soresu, as I feel it exemplifies that which Jedi strive to be - protective, without being toothless. There is no sharper bite than the pain of a wall that will not break.

On that, I imagine, we can agree.

But already, you see, the Sith has worked his magic upon us. He has riled up Mr. Starchaser here to the point of summoning this meeting. Note that upon our arrival, many of us reacted with vitriol, spewing veiled - and not so veiled - hatred for the Sith from our mouths as surely as lies spew from theirs." There was a shake of a metallic head.

"So the question I pose then is this; what would you have us do with the Sith? Because in this galaxy," he leans forward, index finger coming down onto the table sharply to punctuate his point, "every answer is the wrong one. I burned the Imperial Palace to save Cira. I failed. In doing so, I killed Sith. That knowledge did not offer me comfort, nor did it make me feel they'd gotten what they'd deserved.

I invaded Alderaan upon the orders of Ayden Cater, removing the Hydra Queen from power and restoring her to her former form. She is broken, but alive, and on the mend.

And in between those two, I hunted down any whiff of Dark Siders in the Protectorate's borders, branding and killing any who fell under my gaze. An extensive network of spies kept me informed, and more than a handful of casual dabblers in 'Sith Teachings' fell by my hand. Their only crime? Wanting power. Let us not forget that sometimes we are driven to find power not out of ego, but out of need.

Not every soul is unmarred, but just because it is scarred does not mean it is broken. Do not let this Sith further divide us on the matter of 'what do you do with him' because the answer has been staring you in the face the entire time." He sighed inside his helmet, sitting back as he folds his hands in his lap.

"You leave him be. Question him periodically, but send only those you believe beyond reproach. If he escapes? So be it. He likely believes he has plans for every contingency, and he yet may, so rather than worry about what you are or are not setting into motion, simply treat him as you would treat any other prisoner regardless of religious affiliation. Keep him locked up. Keep him under watch.

If another Sith comes forward wanting to be redeemed, then redeem them.

Take each case as they come, and do not overthink them. Simplicity is the wisdom of truth, and rampant emotion the disease of infighting and ignorance."

 

[Jsc]

Sam was in attendance in her orange pilot garb and noted all discussions to the present. This was a strange, informal meeting. Rank and position seemed to be bypassed in favor of everybody just speaking their mind. It was unorthodox to be sure but It fit the GA model of business perfectly. Seeing as her commanding officer probably wouldn't punish her from speaking up, Sam decided to comment too. Following Sarge's example and standing up,

"I agree with the gentleman who has just spoken. Trials come according to crimes. Since we cannot punish him for crimes our government has yet to legalize or even pin him with? I see three options ahead of us."

She shrugged.

"I am Samantha Roberts. A volunteer Lieutenant in the armed forces with Jay Squadron. I would offer three options for this Sith. First, release him. Second, put him in Cryo-Stasis indefinitely. Or third, and my personal favorite. Give him to the NJO and wash our hands of the whole affair."

She spoke with her hands as she talked. It made her feel less nervous.

"And yes. I understand we all have personal feelings on the matter. However. If we have failed to kill him thus far? A pity to be sure. Then let us be done with it entirely. Give all our captured Sith to the Jedi of the NJO and let their honored priests do the rest. If his crimes lay in the realm of spirit then let the spirit realm take him completely. We need not concern ourselves any longer with such petty matters with a war going on. Let whatever judgement the wizards render be the final straw. Completely."

She gave a nod and sat down. Considering her opinion given in full. Well. Sam also wanted to say that it should be the GA's primary directive to deny all Sith members the privilege of surrendering entirely. Remove the option from these SS scum completely. But, that was a witch hunt best left for another time. Until then. Let the Jedi handle the ones the army couldn't kill. Easy as pie. And who knows? The Jedi might just kill or Cryo him anyway. Problem solved.

 

[Aela Talith]

She listened carefully to the words of each person.

There were points on both sides, though Aela already knew where she stood. The innocent had been robbed of life, the guilty had seen it taken from them, hundreds, millions of people had been murdered by the Sith. A part of her, perhaps her more base nature understood the need to kill those that had fallen to the darkside. She couldn't deny the fact that she had had the impulse more than once when staring down the face of a Sith. yet she knew it was wrong. Her father would have told her otherwise, but her mother...her mother had given her values that had lead her here today. Perhaps that was for the better, perhaps she stood on the right this time.

"We'ere Jedi." Aela said simply. "We do not kill the unarmed, and we do not execute prisoners."

It was as simple as that. Perhaps Master Rhen would agree, though she doubted that very much. "Killing is sometimes necessary, I know that, we know that. In the face of certain times it is a must. Perhaps when we stand at the gates of the Sith Temple on Coruscant, perhaps when we face the Dark Lord of the Sith we will have to kill him, but not as a prisoner."

She shook her head.

Execution was not the way of the Jedi, it was not the way of anyone truly good. As a policy it was flawed, as an act, it was broken. Death should never be taken lightly, and it should never be dealt with a swift or unthinking hand. It was something that should be pondered, thought about, not dealt out as a punishment. Aela was still young, she knew that, but she also knew right form wrong, or what she thought it was. In this situation the answer was far more simple than one might expect, though someone in the room had already pointed it out.

"Keep him imprisoned." She said quietly. "Any others that we capture, any others that come to us as well. We're not the Sith. We do not deal in death."

 

[Jacen Voidstalker]

Jacen was respectfully silent as Sarge spoke. In truth he hadn't expected such a reasoned argument from the renowned warrior. Nor for it to be delivered in such a a calm and understated manner. The atmosphere in the room had shifted when he had finished. The palpable tension had dissipated, everyone following him spoke in hushed tones.

"I agree with what has been said," Jacen added. "But I would just like to say that the Sith in question already sits in a prison beneath the NJO temple, suspended in a chamber of magma. We will make no deals, or listen to any revelations any Sith has to say. The chance of a stepping into an extensive web of lies is too great. That said, there is always the chance of redemption. Any crimes would, of course, require the oversight of the appropriate forum. We can't 'redeem' a sith and not have the government of the Alliance permitted to try and prisoner for crimes they may have permitted. Being a Sith or Jedi, does not put one about the letter of the law, no matter how bad they feel about their actions. The darkside is not an excuse for committing atrocities."

 

[Coren Starchaser]

The pilot was getting an open discussion from his new home. This was what he was looking for. Had he expected this number of Jedi to show up? No. But he also figured Jedi would stick to what they knew, defending the Republic. These ones were… different. There was the case of the prisoner, and that was well and good, to let him rot in the cell, to keep him holed away from the galaxy. That would suit Starchaser just fine. Letting the Jedi hold onto the prisoner was one thing. Allowing them to interrogate him, to allow him the chance to speak pretty words, to lie, to be released, that was something the Corellian did not want to allow.

With gentlemen such as Sarge speaking, the sometimes-Pyre member nodded to the former Lord Protector. The majority of the beings here were in agreement, let the Sith stay. Coren’s concern was what the Sith could wrought on the Alliance, and the galaxy. He had fought the Sith plenty, and the way to their destruction was to not keep them alive and in custody, should they escape, there was no way the galaxy could be vaccinated from their plague.

One thing he was looking for, was what Aela had to say. That war time was war time. Coren was not a Jedi, he was not really anything, just a man with a grudge and some powers to do something about it. “What the other Force users are concerned with,” these being NPCs and Coren, and probably other non-Jedi, “is that we will be prosecuted for deaths caused on the battlefield. Sith deaths. Taking them down, before they can cause more damage to those who can’t stand against them, is a risk and a killshot worth taking.

“And beyond that, do we declare active Sith, that are unarmed but still in combat, a potential casualty? Do they become prisoners of the Jedi or the state? Who claims authority, and where does the line sit?”

And how do they prevent it from being a crusade?

[member="Jacen Voidstalker"]
[member="Aela Talith"]
[member="Samantha Roberts"]
[member="Sarge Potteiger"]
[member="Kurayami Bloodborn"]
[member="Julius Sedaire"]
[member="Relit Vandal"]

 

[Jacen Voidstalker]

[member="Coren Starchaser"]

"You've lost me," Jacen admitted. "We will follow the usual galactic agreements for prisoners of war that the Sith ignore. Any Sith that takes up arms - and I would include any hostile action using the Force - on the battlefield would be considered a target to be engaged, and if wounded or surrendering would be managed appropriately. Though off the record I would perhaps stretch the usual procedures to include a good stun bolt for good measure," Jacen said. He followed up with a small shrug.

 

[Jsc]

Being a Sith or Jedi, does not put one about the letter of the law, no matter how bad they feel about their actions.

Sam waved this comment away with a sigh.

"Just a minute Voidstalker. I'd like to address this concern. To be brief, IF the NJO was given it's own jurisdiction? Then yes. We could just had over all our Sith to them and be done with it. The state would have no need to try them, find evidence, secure their allegiance, or make a blanket judgement against any cultist who calms to be a "Sith" this-or-that. The Jedi could use their superior godly powers to do all of it for us. Easy as pie."

She shrugged,

"Until the state is prepared to take upon itself ALL of the complexities of locating, discerning, evidencing, interrogating, holding, defending, rehabilitating, and giving balanced trial to our Sith prisoners? Which obviously the state currently is not, (and probably never will be.) ...Then the easiest solution is to just hand them over to Jedi and be done with it. Justice served."

Some people believed that if the State did not hold a trial that justice was not served. Sam was not so superstitious. Light vs Dark was not an account you settle in a State Courthouse. It was the domain of the mages entirely. No. It was finally time to get rid of the childish mistakes of the Old Republics. Finally time to let the State waive it's right to a "Peoples Justice" and let heaven have it's dominion.

 

[Julius Sedaire]

Julius stepped forward, standing, and spoke slowly. The voice was heavy with a deep tone, his eyes focused on each and every person, holding their gaze for a moment, before he continued. As he spoke, his hands remained flat on the back of the chair he had circled around to stand behind, fingers white-knuckle clenched almost. There was a certain tension to his voice, a wearisome note that had not yet been erased from the Outer Rim. Indeed, his beard still showed the scruff common from the Rim, and his eyes were still shadowed and sunken, with a slight cast of the hunted man, his hair hanging forward into his face and off his shoulders.

"We must remember one thing, in all of this, and forgive me if I speak out of turn, I know none of you know me, and I have no name or glory... But I will speak still. Only a Sith deals in absolutes. This is one of the Jedi's oldest aphorisms to caution us against becoming that which we fight. Only they are so fool hardy and ignorant to believe there is nothing more. While we can not afford to let them run amok, unchecked and unhunted, we can not kill every single one of them without thought of Mercy or hope of Redemption. To do that, we would let aggression and hatred run unchecked in our heart, and in the end that rot would see us a slave to petty and base emotions.. No better than they, really. If they cross me in battle, believe me, I will send them back to the Force, by whatever means I have available. Even at the cost of my own life. But if they come, begging mercy and aid? I will be cautious, but I will extend that hand. It is what the Jedi are meant to be, in idealistic notions... We must not bicker over universal and unilateral codes that order their outright deaths or blanket pardons. Each must be judged, and if I may be so bold, it must be done by the Order. Who better to know it, and handle it? Of course, if offered redemption, the State must be allowed some say, some sway in sentencing so they are not given a clean slate without penance. Whether it be service to the community, reparation in more monetary means, intelligence given over, or in extreme cases severance from the Force, we must work in tandem on this. Nothing is absolute, not the authority of one part over the other, nothing."

Having winded himself, Julius let out a long sigh and lowered his head from the assemblage, letting out a long breath he had held, and then looked up, gauging reactions where he could.

Well, that is certainly one way to introduce yourself, Sedaire...

Spoiler

[member="Jacen Voidstalker"]
[member="Aela Talith"]

[member="Samantha Roberts"]
[member="Sarge Potteiger"]
[member="Kurayami Bloodborn"]e
[member="Coren Starchaser"]
[member="Relit Vandal"]