Bombshell Genius
Knowing that the base assault concussion missile is worth 20 capital guns, are they regarded as being long-range weapons or not?
Star Wars Roleplay: Chaos
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Assault concussion missiles question
- Thread starter Jessica Med-Beq
- Start date
Captain Larraq
Capitalist
[member="Jessica Med-Beq"]
In the D20 roleplay books, Turbolasers were "long range" weapons and missile launchers were "medium range". In this case, I'd call the range of a "Long Range Turbolaser" an extended range weapon.
Anyway. Outside of specific roleplay tricks or unique factory subs, ordnance is a close range weapon. Remember that the farther away you are when firing missiles, the more time the enemy has to identify, track, And generate firing solutions to take them out.
In the D20 roleplay books, Turbolasers were "long range" weapons and missile launchers were "medium range". In this case, I'd call the range of a "Long Range Turbolaser" an extended range weapon.
Anyway. Outside of specific roleplay tricks or unique factory subs, ordnance is a close range weapon. Remember that the farther away you are when firing missiles, the more time the enemy has to identify, track, And generate firing solutions to take them out.
Klesta
The King of Ergonomic Assessments
Weird: [member="Cyrus Tregessar"] suggested assault concussion missiles to have the same effective range as LR turbolasers. At least that's how he wrote about those when he fleets.
My alt Jessica wanted to build an assault concussion missile with MIRV technology so that, past a certain point, whereby the primary vector would run out of fuel, the secondaries, each of which having one warhead in it, would be deployed and target different systems on the same ship or multiple ships.
My alt Jessica wanted to build an assault concussion missile with MIRV technology so that, past a certain point, whereby the primary vector would run out of fuel, the secondaries, each of which having one warhead in it, would be deployed and target different systems on the same ship or multiple ships.
Ayden Cater
Grumpy Goat
[member="Captain Larraq"]
Excepting energy torpedoes, which I feel would fall in the 'long range' category given their speed (20% the speed of light). But they pay for that by not being as devastating as other heavy warheads like assault concussion missiles and they have literally zero tracking capabilities. Great for slow, mammoth targets. Shite for smaller, agile ones.
Excepting energy torpedoes, which I feel would fall in the 'long range' category given their speed (20% the speed of light). But they pay for that by not being as devastating as other heavy warheads like assault concussion missiles and they have literally zero tracking capabilities. Great for slow, mammoth targets. Shite for smaller, agile ones.
Grand Admiral, First Order Central Command
My assumption, as [member="Jessica Med-Beq"] says, is that big heavy missiles necessarily have very long possible ranges, but being generally slow you have a lot of time to intercept and destroy them. I have zero experience with the D20 Star Wars, I might add. That's based not so much on Star Wars logic as it is real-world logic and physics (where missiles fired in space would be both 100% accurate and extremely devastating weapons).
Klesta
The King of Ergonomic Assessments
[member="Cyrus Tregessar"] I guess you can understand why Jessica wanted MIRVs on her new contraption: so that, either when the primary vector runs out of fuel or the primary vector takes a hit, the MIRVs require an enemy to reconfigure firing solutions on many more targets than initially.
She already have a 380mm heavy, long-range HVC under her belt, counting for 90 capital guns.
She already have a 380mm heavy, long-range HVC under her belt, counting for 90 capital guns.
Grand Admiral, First Order Central Command
I think it's more that I'm burdened by real world expectations. Missiles outrange guns IRL by a lot (even if we're talking full size naval artillery) but there's a pile of limitations that come from working on a curved ball of atmosphere that simply don't exist in space. If the main considerations are the ability of the enemy to detect, establish a fire control solution, and shoot down your ordnance (rather then concerns like radar horizon, curvature of the earth, atmospherics, etc.) then a weapon that travels at the speed of light in a straight line with no chance of interception is necessarily going to be more effective at longer ranges.
So I could be convinced either way, I guess. Might be worth considering setting a baseline for this stuff, but on the other hand it might be best to just leave it be.
If we do assume that ordnance is something of a medium range weapon, then yes, I suppose I can see the point of having a long-range MIRV style warhead to give you that extended reach but also have a system in place to prevent it all from simply being shot down.
[member="Captain Larraq"] | [member="Klesta"] | [member="Gir Quee"]
So I could be convinced either way, I guess. Might be worth considering setting a baseline for this stuff, but on the other hand it might be best to just leave it be.
If we do assume that ordnance is something of a medium range weapon, then yes, I suppose I can see the point of having a long-range MIRV style warhead to give you that extended reach but also have a system in place to prevent it all from simply being shot down.
[member="Captain Larraq"] | [member="Klesta"] | [member="Gir Quee"]
Captain Larraq
Capitalist
I did that.
Sorta.
Pending dev thread.
Grand Admiral, First Order Central Command
[member="Captain Larraq"]
I just got a neat idea to ape a real world torpedo in Star Wars. Will be hard to balance, though...
I just got a neat idea to ape a real world torpedo in Star Wars. Will be hard to balance, though...
Captain Larraq
Capitalist
Laira Darkhold
Well-Known Member
[member="Cyrus Tregessar"]
With shields, Point Defense, Star Fighter Screens, and any other missile deterrent, at long range there's so much luck involved at delivering the missile to the ship, that its almost not worth it.
Standard Range, better shot at it, but flak frigates are still gonna have a good shot at keeping them off.
Close Range, its just your best shot because its not as long in the void. Less chance to bring guns to bear or starfighters to strafe it.
Plus these days you have a lot of good anti-missile defense guns. From CIWS, to Canister launchers, to EM Field Generators. Tacking on advanced Point Defense networks like the Bastion, and you've got the ringer for not using missiles at long range.
As someone who enjoys his missile cruiser and has a guided missile destroyer stashed away, I feel your pain.
With shields, Point Defense, Star Fighter Screens, and any other missile deterrent, at long range there's so much luck involved at delivering the missile to the ship, that its almost not worth it.
Standard Range, better shot at it, but flak frigates are still gonna have a good shot at keeping them off.
Close Range, its just your best shot because its not as long in the void. Less chance to bring guns to bear or starfighters to strafe it.
Plus these days you have a lot of good anti-missile defense guns. From CIWS, to Canister launchers, to EM Field Generators. Tacking on advanced Point Defense networks like the Bastion, and you've got the ringer for not using missiles at long range.
As someone who enjoys his missile cruiser and has a guided missile destroyer stashed away, I feel your pain.
Directorate Officer
I think [member="Draco Vereen"] pretty much hit it on the head on why we don't see many long-range warheads in canon Star Wars. Given that we have similarly sized starships to large missiles, I do not think that this is an issue of endurance technology, but more of an issue of many countermeasures making long-range missile fire ineffective.
As for assault concussion missiles specifically, they seem to be specifically optimized to do massive amounts of damage rather than on range. The one source that I've found that has specific information on Assault Concussion Missiles (Starships of the Galaxy 2001) has one curious characteristic that really isn't explained. They appear to be a much cheaper weapon to initially purchase than heavy turbolasers (on the order of 10 times cheaper for the initial launcher compared to a standard heavy turbolaser). Individual assault concussion missiles cost about 2000 credits each by that same source, which makes them to purchase (that's the same cost as a single laser cannon).
This kind of makes me wonder if Star Wars missiles and guns are inversely related in terms of costs compared to their modern day equivalents.
[member="Cyrus Tregessar"] | [member="Captain Larraq"]
As for assault concussion missiles specifically, they seem to be specifically optimized to do massive amounts of damage rather than on range. The one source that I've found that has specific information on Assault Concussion Missiles (Starships of the Galaxy 2001) has one curious characteristic that really isn't explained. They appear to be a much cheaper weapon to initially purchase than heavy turbolasers (on the order of 10 times cheaper for the initial launcher compared to a standard heavy turbolaser). Individual assault concussion missiles cost about 2000 credits each by that same source, which makes them to purchase (that's the same cost as a single laser cannon).
This kind of makes me wonder if Star Wars missiles and guns are inversely related in terms of costs compared to their modern day equivalents.
[member="Cyrus Tregessar"] | [member="Captain Larraq"]
Valiens Nantaris
Head Admin
All someone needs to do is invent cloaking heavy warheads....
Bombshell Genius
So that means Jessica would have to ask for a stygium LFG then, rather than for devving the weapon proper...
Bombshell Genius
[member="Valiens Nantaris"] Behold: the Volksgrenadier heavy cloaking MIRV missile!