Request Bounty Board Moderator

[Cassus Akovin]

A couple of days ago, I put up a small questionnaire on how we could make Bounty Hunting better for both Bounty Hunters and the community at large, and a rather popular position among it was the regulation of the Bounty Board via a Moderator: https://www.starwarsrp.net/threads/bounty-hunting-and-how-to-make-it-better.139251/

I imagine such a moderator would be much like the Factory or Codex judges, where Bounties are approved for use immediately unless the Moderator/Judge sees an issue with it (unrealistic reward, OOC motivation/no IC justification, very unwilling target, taking too long to complete without an update, etc.). It would also probably call for the ability to adjust the Bounty Template for better use and ease of standardization, and the ability to archive old or completed Bounties, allowing people to look at the Bounty Board and know immediately what is still in play.

Is it possible a change like this could be implemented so that a form of standardization for Bounties can make them more accessible? I would be a volunteer for this task, and I'm sure I know at least a few Bounty Hunters writers who might be interested in helping out as well if I am found to be unsatisfactory for the task.

 

[Thaelius]

I don't know. It does have it's merits but couldn't a Admin or RPJ just oversee it?

 

[Cassus Akovin]

Thaelius they could, but they have a lot on their plate. This would alleviate that issue, in the same way the Factory and Codex Judges alleviated the need for RPJs or Admins from moderating their respective parts of the forum.

The Bounty Board is a small piece of Chaos now, but given its due attention, it could expand in much the same way that the Codex was separated from the first Factory.

 

[Darth Metus]

Playing Dabura's advocate here -

Why is this something that requires staff moderation/curation?

The community tends to self-regulate. Writers know each other, and off the wall marks are usually passed over. (i.e 1.5 quadrillion credits for the head of that one guy or it's well known we had an OOC falling out, go run his pockets).

Can you elaborate on why this warrants staff attention when the community can, more or less, do it?

 

[Cassus Akovin]

Darth Metus thank you for playing the advocate!

The reason why? Currently, community self-regulation has only lead to stagnation, and Bounties with ridiculous sums have gone up and been acknowledged (10 million for Jedi?) and pursued (myself included!). Meanwhile, in canon Han Solo held a bounty of just 300k and that was supposed to be a big deal. Though this is a separate issue, it is related to the sorry state the Bounty Board is currently operating in.

There is also the not uncommon enough occurrence that Bounties and Counter Bounties have been used as jokes, or as OOC slights, which in my experience have been all but ignored by any kind of moderation because again, self-regulation isn't something that is being used on the Bounty Board. If anyone has used the report function on the Bounty Board, I haven't seen nor heard of its results. So, ridiculous and sometimes nonsensical Bounties are posted and just left there, forever.

When a fresh writer comes to the board and wants to play a Bounty Hunter, they should be able to look at the board and know immediately what's available on the table, and then go after it. In its present state, that isn't really possible. You draw up your character, maybe you join a faction, you look at the board to look for Bounties, maybe comment on one that isn't totally non-sensical and then...

Nothing.

I believe this is in large part because there is no official guidance on the Bounty Board for either community members or Bounty Hunters, and a moderator or judge of some kind could help stimulate this niche. We have Bounty Toggles to indicate who is interested/open to being hunted, with a Bounty Target list that shows the top 50 posters who have it turned on, meanwhile, the Bounty Board stands still for the most part, and Bounty Hunters find it difficult to write the stories they want to tell because it isn't totally clear how they are intended to hunt and for what purpose.

Let's step away for a moment, however, and take your question and apply it to the factory or codex.

Imagine a board where these two functions don't exist, and people just make up whatever technology or planets or species they want, the only way of combating abuse simply being reporting it to staff, and otherwise being self-regulating. Would it not simply be easier and less of a headache for the community at large to have a written record that's been pre-moderated of what characters are using or being? That is what the Factory and later the Codex were made for. I think the same can apply to this.

I don't think we would need much of staff personally, maybe no more than two if we need more than one at all.

I hope I have articulated well enough why I think this would be an excellent addition to the board in the same way that the Factory and Codex were.

 

[Darth Metus]

Follow-up question -

What's stopping players who are invested in the Bounty Hunting world - such as yourself - from owning that yourselves?

Off the top of my head? If there was a Bounty Hunter Guild faction that made a graphic that said "USDA Approved, Grade A Bounty" and said graphic was posted by a BHG member in bounties that weren't trash-tier, the end result would be the same from what I'm seeing.

Bounty Hunting is a niche form of play, right up there with Fleeting. I don't think it's something that warrants dedicated staff attention. I do think it's something that interested and invested players can grab by the horns and do their own thing.

For context, what you're asking for would require, potentially, a dedicated Admin (as we have one for Factory/Codex), the creation of templates, balancing discussions, and much more upstairs - just to get off the ground. That's a tall order, on top of what staff already does, for a very niche area of the board.

 

[Ellie Mors]

Just lobby factions to work with your bounty hunter guild and make sure your group stays active enough to warrant their use.

If that isn't something you or anyone else wants to take on, post up a notice from your hypothetical bounty hunter guild with a guideline on what to set for bounties and why.
Cassus Akovin

 

[Cassus Akovin]

Darth Metus , Ellie Mors

So here's the deal: The Bounty Hunters Guild (which is not hypothetical, and is active) already has done that and will continue to do that.

The problem is no one else is obligated to follow in our footsteps, so the result is that "trash tier" bounties still get made, and they don't get taken away/archived, or revised. Also, the only thing that current staff has to do... is just take on another staff member (and I am ready and willing to volunteer, as mentioned). The rules for Bounty hunting are already in place, Staff has already added new features to assist us such as the Bounty Toggle, and the Bounty Target list. Why the resistance for the one step more forward for better standardization?

 

[Ariel Yvarro]

At the end of the day, this comes down to the bounty hunter and the hunted coming together to create an awesome story. As is the rest of the shenanigans on this board. I'm not sure why staff needs to do anything here when it's always going to come down to basic communication. Just like it's still up to the writers to decide what kind of damage they take in PvP.

Just like it's up to writers to decide how they're going to do anything on this board, the toggle button just makes it easier for you the Bounty Hunter RPer to know oh hey this person is down with bein' hunted. Let me check with them and see how we can make this happen.

 

[Cassus Akovin]

Ariel Yvarro you are very right, and I agree with you. It is a philosophy I personally follow, I never pursue anyone without prior consent because that is just how I do it. But I want you, and anyone else reading, to look at this way:

There are Bounties on the Board right now that are years old and so ridiculous they would probably embarrass their posters, that are STILL on the Bounty Board. What if, let's say hypothetically, someone made a Bounty a year ago that they still want to be honored, but it's buried under everything else. They have a couple of options: necropost, or repost. They wouldn't have to if someone was there dedicated to the forum removing old and/or completed Bounties. If someone were to put a new Bounty on someone (who does not have the Bounty Toggle on) and they say they do not want to be hunted, why isn't it taken down? People have the power to report posts that break rules, and the person who has to review those reports is going to be a staff member... so why not sidestep all the fuss and just have a person to review it in the first place? (By the way, this has actually happened before, and I personally stepped in and indicated that the Bounty Hunters Guild that I am running would not pursue it, and luckily the person voided it... but imagine for a moment that they hadn't?) The template itself seems to indicate that the Bounty Board would be regulated at least in the sense of "not tolerating joke submissions", but in all the years that I have been here (correct me if I am wrong), it has never been touched by a staff member.

There are many, many reasons why I feel strongly that the Bounty Board requires greater attention, particularly for newer writers coming to the board for the first time. Looking at it now, just gives me the impression of a mess, whereas looking towards everything else on the site is amazing. In essence, it's just plain disappointing and I want to change that for them.

Maybe you don't think it's necessary because you don't roleplay that, but not everyone uses the factory, not everyone uses the codex, not everyone uses factions or the map, and I probably know someone who doesn't use open roleplay at all and exclusively uses private roleplaying forums. Suffice to say, in my personal opinion, just because not everyone uses a function and calls it a niche, doesn't mean it doesn't deserve attention.

 

[Darth Metus]

Right, but it's up to the hunters if they pursue the good bounties or the bad.

Staff doesn't need to curate a new forum of the site, when Hunters can read a thread and make the call if the bounty is outlandish to them or not.

And again, any community of writers invested in Hunting can take it a step further by physically signing off on the bounties they think are worthwhile.

And if there are trash tier bounties posted? Who cares, it doesn't affect your ability to write the stories you want with the people you want. I'm not seeing a reason to dedicate staff resources to this, but that's my two credits, feel free to invest them in Space Bitcoin. It's going up.

On a Tuesday.

And as you posted while I was typing -

You can request any of your threads archived. If you don't like what you posted a year ago, you can say "hey, staff member, please have mercy on my soul for I karked up" and they will gladly - for the low price of a HaHa React - archive whatever thread is in question for you.

And, if a writer is interested in bringing new attention to their old, year old bounty, they can do what many factions do with advertisements, what many factory/codex posters do with old submissions, etc.

They can click edit post, Cntrl + A, Cntrl + C, Cntrl + V, Click Post.

Scream yikes because the coding broke and then click edit again.

 

[Judah Lesan]

Darth Metus , Ellie Mors

So here's the deal: no one is obligated

This is the crux of the issue. The bounty hunter board is optional, and unlike the factory or codex, the posting itself doesn’t have an impact on pvp rules on the site. The bounty toggle already deals with the permission issue.

At this point it seems to this would be creating staff to regulate something that doesn’t need to be regulated. I’m not really seeing a reason as to why this is needed. At the end of the day this is a hobby.

I do appreciate your thoughts into how this could be made better for those who want the niche play. Creating new staff to oversee something that is so I frequent might not be it though. Sounds like... we want things better... someone else make it better please. At least to me it does

 

[Cassus Akovin]

Staff would not be curating a new forum, just cleaning up an old one that has been around, beaten up on, and (imo) neglected for a looooong time.

Bad bounties do and can effect other people in ways that are indirect, I know writers who are anxious to join anything public due to a bogus Bounty placed on them a year ago (and yet it doesn't matter). Self-regulation doesn't work here because they don't have the benefit of a staff response to alleviate their concern. I only have so much power as just a writer to do my part, it'd be easier with an actual figure of authority involved with this aspect of the board.

Also, it's none of my threads I'd want archived, so that would be a moot point for me anyway.

Additionally, if I had it my way, I would be the staff, so no I don't want "someone else to do it", *I want to do it lol. But if they don't want me to do it, I would ideally like someone to do it.

This is a hobby, and like some people, I want more out of it and would like to breathe more life into it, if I were to be allowed to.

 

[Judah Lesan]

Cassus Akovin that’s good at least to say you’d be willing to police that. Too often ideas like this come without that willingness, so glad to see it.

I still don’t agree it warrants a staff position, and i’d still say the bounty toggle deals with the public thread issue when it comes to bad bounties being placed on people. However, that‘s just me.

 

[Kyra Perl]

I think this whole conversation has gotten really derailed.

It's a site function through and through, so it's on staff's lap to make sure its operating smoothly.


What we should be talking about here is ways we think we can make this option, however niche, work better for the community. Improving a design is all a 'niche' idea needs to gain more traction. I've been working with the bounty hunting guild. I've witness their struggle. Things can be done to help this board concept work better for the community. As a community and staff we should be looking at these questions before writing off if a mod helps or doesn't.

1-How about we talk about things that would make people more interested in placing bounties.

2-What would make people more willing to be a bounty.

3-What would make more people more willing to take a bounty.

The staff chose their job and they want to see this place succeed. I'm sure they would love to hear out anything that would help this place flourish.


Will a mod solve these issues?
I'm going to answer my own question

1- I would place more bounties if I knew they would pan out. Otherwise, it feels like a waste of effort.
Can a mod help this? Nope.

2- Communication from the start. A proactive pm from the bounty hunters (which i personally didn't get on my first bounty) would have gotten a positive response from me. Instead, I heard a rumor and I panicked. It's a human reaction. If there was more site oversight, I would at least feel like I could approach staff as say "Hey I am uncomfortable with how things are going, can you help me get out of this situation?"

With the lack of clear and communicated guidelines on bounties in general, most writers feel left to suffer in silence and that insecurity doesn't breed willingness to try.
A place or moderator to go to for help is one solution for this.

3-If I felt like the person would be willing. People are often too scared to try, and reaching out to a stranger never goes well. If we could fix 2, then this problem would resolve. Which would resolve 1!
Also! A cleaner board with up to date and healthier bounties would be leaps and bounds more appealing.
Can a mod help with this? Yes.


*I don't have answers to all of this, but I think the solution does lie somewhere in between staff giving some clearer assistance/ guidelines/aid, and the community self-policing their own behavior. If people feel secure, they will write. That's where we should focus our efforts-- how can we as a community, and staff, foster that. A moderator just might help! Could at least try.

Thanks for coming to my ted talk.

 

[Ellie Mors]

Cassus Akovin Well as an example you could talk to a faction team (a major faction, as an example) and get them to only put bounties up through your guild in return for an incentive of always having bounty hunters (or at least often having bounty hunters) willing to take and do bounties. Major factions can structure threads around bounty hunting, or at least include ways to make use of it as a way to bolster activity or as a bit of fun, so the incentive is already there in my eyes for someone in a major faction team to want to take advantage of your guild. I was simply calling it a hypothetical because I wasn't trying to assume whether you wanted to do it yourself or if you actually wanted a dedicated factory judge to take care of it.

There actually used to be a dedicated person to watch the bounty board ( Arage Bao and Danger Arceneau did it when they were factory judges during late 2014 when they weren't watching companies back when the bounty board was in the factory and before we stopped assigning people to specific spots in the factory/codex to watch), but that didn't stop people from doing what they wanted bounty-wise. A moderator isn't going to achieve what you want, being the option for them to choose from to set bounties with will.

A way to avoid the whole crazy high bounty prices, which most people are actually unaware are actually really high, is to act as a middle man that evaluates who the bounty is being set on, what price will attract a bounty hunter but not send them into early retirement with a gigantic pay check (unless there's factors that make it worth that), and then set the bounty as the bounty hunter guild at the price you feel is reasonable. Think of it as refinancing a house - you can set the price for whatever you sell a house for, but adding a third party who evaluates its worth for you and sets a price based on a standardized test or checklist and such will add a legitimacy to a bounty that a person or faction setting a bounty themselves typically lacks.

And as an example of a faction willing to do so, we can find a way to negotiate an agreement with the Sith Empire to only set bounties through the bounty hunter guild in a similar manner (or whatever suits you).

Edit: And staff has kept up the guidelines and templates which were from 2014 that detail all of the suggestions regarding bounty prices and what-not.

 

[Avernus]

M O D E R A T E T H E B O U N T Y B O A R D

 

[Valiens Nantaris]

Follow-up question -

What's stopping players who are invested in the Bounty Hunting world - such as yourself - from owning that yourselves?

Off the top of my head? If there was a Bounty Hunter Guild faction that made a graphic that said "USDA Approved, Grade A Bounty" and said graphic was posted by a BHG member in bounties that weren't trash-tier, the end result would be the same from what I'm seeing.

Bounty Hunting is a niche form of play, right up there with Fleeting. I don't think it's something that warrants dedicated staff attention. I do think it's something that interested and invested players can grab by the horns and do their own thing.

For context, what you're asking for would require, potentially, a dedicated Admin (as we have one for Factory/Codex), the creation of templates, balancing discussions, and much more upstairs - just to get off the ground. That's a tall order, on top of what staff already does, for a very niche area of the board.

This post summarises my view, and that of staff. I am not going to employ another person to play busywork when we have no economy system. If you, as a member want to run a thread or have a Bounty Hunting faction, good for you!

Bounties are voluntary, and you can turn on whether you're even available to be hunted. It's incredibly niche and if you're taking part it's because you want to.

What I can do however is archive all the bounties from before the start of the year and let people recreate them if they so choose.

 

[Cassus Akovin]

Yes! Please do that at the very least! I can take care of everything else as per everyone's suggestions, as best as I can, and hopefully if I ever stop someone will be there to take over.