Capital Hangar Squadron Count

[Beowoof]

So I'm browsing through the starship templates to get a handle on what the site's star destroyers can carry as far as fighter craft go. Meanwhile, I'm taking a look at the canon Venator-class destroyer from the Clone Wars era.

Now, here's from the template for the Flagship class of Chaos ship:

Hangar: (Please provide the amount of fighters this submission can hold in it's hangar by count of Squadrons, which hold 12 average Starfighters. The higher your squadron count, the lower your Armament and number of Special Features should be. Bigger ships can accommodate more Armament and more Squadron Count, but will require a development thread once you pass 1,600 in length -even if generic. This submission's Max Squadron Count: 12, with 12 being the max for a 5,000 meter ship with a low armament.

So that amounts to a total of 144 average fighters on a 5,000m behemoth.

Take a look at our Venator-class stats:

Complement

• Alpha-3 Nimbus-class V-wing or V-19 Torrent starfighters (192)
• ARC-170 starfighters (36)
• Eta-2 Actis-class light interceptors (192)
• LAAT/i gunships (40)

That comes out to a grand total of 460 ships in the hangar.

By the way, the Venator-class measures in at

Length 1,137 meters

So we have over three times as many snubfighters than Chaos allows on a custom capital ship that is almost five times bigger!

Now, I love canon ships anyway. But I'm trying to figure out how this is in the least comparable. It seems like it's not worth it to submit to the factory in this case. And could I RP with a Venator-class destroyer but switch the canon fighters for my own custom fighters? Or could I use canon fighters (say 96 of the classic T-65s instead of 192 the V-19s) that are not listed in this destroyer's entry as part of its complement?

I'm honestly confused and wondering how useful the starship section of the factory really is now.

 

[Jaxton Ravos]

The moment I saw this thread I knew it was about the Venator. It's a submission that's been tried to be used as precedent for nearly a year before Factory Judges became a thing and the Factory stance has always been "This isn't a canon precedent to be followed." Some canon things are just silly, and aren't adhered too because they break the mold we've made in the Factory too much. The powercreep we've had in the factory mostly pertains to guncounts and not squadrons. That said, 12 squadrons sounds -waaay- off. That number, IIRC, was how many fighters you could fit into a Balanced type 2000m ship in the original ship guide. A Flagship being dedicated to the carrier role should have at least 7 wings, with the Dzu'ari being the closest thing we have to a precedent at the moment.

 

[Beowoof]

That said, 12 squadrons sounds -waaay- off. That number, IIRC, was how many fighters you could fit into a Balanced type 2000m ship in the original ship guide. A Flagship being dedicated to the carrier role should have at least 7 wings, with the Dzu'ari being the closest thing we have to a precedent at the moment.

That's what I figured.

Also, the USS Eisenhower, an aircraft carrier that measures in at approximately 333m, carries a max aircraft compliment of 90 fighters/helicopters. That's only 54 fewer aircraft than the site's maximum load for a 5,000m science-fiction space carrier!

 

[Jaxton Ravos]

[member="Beowoof"]

There's somewhat of a fundamental difference between putting a starfighter in an enclosed hangerbay on a ship and a sea-based ship with a bunch of fighters on what is essentially the floor.

 

[Ellie Mors]

I'm fairly certain the USS Eisenhower doesn't carry 50m fighters, though.

I have differing opinions on the size hangars for ships should be, but it's my personal opinion and I'm not the in-house expert on ships.

 

[Beowoof]

[member="Jaxton Ravos"], [member="Silara"]

The Imperial-II holds 72 fighters, plus shuttles and transports, at 1,600m. This is significantly lower than the Venator, but it still has over half the complement of a 5,000m Chaos carrier.

I'm just trying to figure out what canon standard we have. And am I allowed to use the Venator or ISD2? How do I know what's allowed if it's canon and below the 2km range?

 

[Jaxton Ravos]

[member="Beowoof"]

In general the 'official staff stance' is you can use whatever. Until someone reports you for it. I'd report any opponent trying to use the Venator but the Imperial-II? I wouldn't have too much issue with it. We have current ships at around/less than that length with similar, if not larger, hanger counts. If someone wants to use a Canon Ship so they don't have to submit stuff to the Factory that's generally okay, if someone wants to use a Canon Ship so they can get a major heads-up on somebody it generally isn't.

When in doubt, follow Wheaton's Law.

 

[Beowoof]

[member="Jaxton Ravos"]

That makes sense. But now I can't submit a ship equivalent to the ISD2 under the current updated rules. :/

 

[Boethiah]

That makes sense. But now I can't submit a ship equivalent to the ISD2 under the current updated rules. :/

I've seen the standards bent around depending on balancing and how much work was put into a dev thread. Although I'll agree that I think ships could use a slightly higher count, I'd like to also say that if enough work is put into something that you might get what you're looking for...
Afterall, one of my faction's carriers -- under 1,000m -- was able to house 9 squadrons because of its design and the work put into it

Of course, that is a carrier but I do believe an ample middle-ground can be found.

I'm not a factory judge, however, so I can't say for sure that they'll give you more if you have a dev thread for it.

 

[Jaxton Ravos]

[member="Beowoof"]

You can submit whatever you want, and pass most things if you put in sufficient effort in both dev threads and research. If you put in a ton of work and can't get it passed? It's generally a sign it's something that would get reported if you used a 'canon' equivalent.


And, for future reference, something to think about when looking at canon stuff. Sure, some advances in technology have been made in the last 800 years since the movies, but at the same time Turbolasers and Ion Cannons and Laser Cannons are technology that have been used for millenia. And when you look at ships that the Empire and, to a lesser scale, Republic before it made you also have to think about the sheer scale. The Empire that Palpatine ruled was Galactic. Everything on the map, save for the Unknown Regions, a bit of wild space, the outer arms, etc. were his nation. HIs economy. His military. The amount of resources they had at that time easily doubles all current major factions put together. A lot of things from that era are mimic-able, but a lot of them aren't, and almost nothing should be assumed to have the same level of scale it did in 'the good ole days'.

 

[Valiens Nantaris]

The Venator was extremely under armed. It had:

DBY-827 heavy dual turbolaser turrets (8)
Medium dual turbolaser cannons (2)
Point-defense laser cannons (52)
Tractor beam projectors (6)
Heavy proton torpedo tubes (4)

Which I make to be about 40 capital guns and 52 defence guns. Yet this was the Republic's main ship for the Clone Wars.

Now, the capital guns are on course for a support ship here, but the additional 88 defence guns could probably be traded off for fighter space. It's also a slow ship and not well armoured.

My point being is that the Venator was designed to be a super carrier, something which had hanger space at the detriment of everything else. If you did a decent dev thread, made the concessions involved you might get close to getting it approved.

This is also a case when canon has provided an outlier which needs to be smoothed down in an attempt to make a balanced reality.

 

[Arage Bao]

[member="Beowoof"]

You can submit whatever you want, and pass most things if you put in sufficient effort in both dev threads and research. If you put in a ton of work and can't get it passed? It's generally a sign it's something that would get reported if you used a 'canon' equivalent.


And, for future reference, something to think about when looking at canon stuff. Sure, some advances in technology have been made in the last 800 years since the movies, but at the same time Turbolasers and Ion Cannons and Laser Cannons are technology that have been used for millenia. And when you look at ships that the Empire and, to a lesser scale, Republic before it made you also have to think about the sheer scale. The Empire that Palpatine ruled was Galactic. Everything on the map, save for the Unknown Regions, a bit of wild space, the outer arms, etc. were his nation. HIs economy. His military. The amount of resources they had at that time easily doubles all current major factions put together. A lot of things from that era are mimic-able, but a lot of them aren't, and almost nothing should be assumed to have the same level of scale it did in 'the good ole days'.

Man, you are so hot right now.

 

[Sasha Santhe]

I was told in the past that the "rules" are more of a guideline. Dev thread it and put some thought into balancing it and it will get accepted as long as it isn't tooo out there. What Val said seems to back up what I've previously been told.

 

[Ellie Mors]

I've seen the standards bent around depending on balancing and how much work was put into a dev thread.

In reference to the Prim'ra Carrier, the ship is a dedicated carrier, they are capable of housing 10 squadrons, yours has 9.

Ships subbed over 5,000m will not be passed and will require a lowering of size, regardless of posts, ships exceeding the template will be asked to be lowered, etc. Increasing a post count doesn't mean everything, though if you work hard enough we might allow the maximum with leeway on other things.