Silver Guardian
Anyone need training in something, give me a bell, and an idea of what kind of lesson you'd find fun. We can NPC a master if Kei doesn't know a technique specifically.
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Classes - Force Powers - Call if you need something.
- Thread starter Kei Amadis
- Start date
Ryn'Dhal
Silver Shroud
I'm hunting more for Forms training than anything. Makashi, and both aspects of (if I'm not mistaken) Form V? Djem So and Shien?
And Force Sense as well.
And Force Sense as well.
Aspiring Jedi
[member="Ryn'Dhal"] Don't try and learn too many lightsaber forms - remember, amateurs learn them all and assume that means they'll win fights. People who understand the concept of them realise that you could spend an IC lifetime learning one and *still* win battles. Why? Because it's all in how you write it.
Plus, if you've ever actually bothered to wield a sword, you'll know that adjusting to a particular style can take a LONG time. Why go forth and try to learn 2-3 different styles when one alone can take years to master effectively?
Don't make that mistake, please!
Plus, if you've ever actually bothered to wield a sword, you'll know that adjusting to a particular style can take a LONG time. Why go forth and try to learn 2-3 different styles when one alone can take years to master effectively?
Don't make that mistake, please!
Ryn'Dhal
Silver Shroud
Djem So and Shien are my priorities. The Basics of Makashi though, would help in making his own personalized variation of a Form. He's likely to incorporate the acrobatics of Makashi into the defensive styles of Form V.
[member="Teynara Jeralyr"]
[member="Teynara Jeralyr"]
Aspiring Jedi
[member="Ryn'Dhal"] Makashi doesn't use acrobatics - it's a fencing equivalent, so the priority is to keep your feet on the floor, keep your body in balance so as to be able to deliver a solid riposte when your opponent overextends themselves, and keep your body core small so as to make it harder to hit. If you want acrobatics, you're looking for Djem-So or Ataru - more the latter than the former, but there's a lot of kinetic motion in Djem-So that is useful to that end.
That said, you could always incorporate acrobatic/gymnastic technique into Ryn'dhal's conditioning training independent of the Forms - most Jedi have a fair sense of acrobatic ability, at least once they start working on Augmentation skills (Jump, Acceleration etc).
That said, you could always incorporate acrobatic/gymnastic technique into Ryn'dhal's conditioning training independent of the Forms - most Jedi have a fair sense of acrobatic ability, at least once they start working on Augmentation skills (Jump, Acceleration etc).
Ryn'Dhal
Silver Shroud
Felacatian. I -AM- Acrobatics.
But yes, you are correct, I was mistaken in my titles of forms.
I always envisioned a lot of Ryn's combat style being reminiscent of Master Yoda's. But with significantly more defensive focus involved.
[member="Teynara Jeralyr"]
But yes, you are correct, I was mistaken in my titles of forms.
I always envisioned a lot of Ryn's combat style being reminiscent of Master Yoda's. But with significantly more defensive focus involved.
[member="Teynara Jeralyr"]
Aspiring Jedi
[member="Ryn'Dhal"] Then why seek to learn an offensive form? It's Ataru you want.
Ryn'Dhal
Silver Shroud
Yes, Makashi was the wrong form to speak of. And was I reading wrong about Form V being a more defensive form? I understand one aspect is geared towards countering Blaster-fire, the other more for countering an opponents actions. Am I wrong?
[member="Teynara Jeralyr"]
[member="Teynara Jeralyr"]
Aspiring Jedi
[member="Ryn'Dhal"] Yup, it's an offensive form with a counter-offensive component (that being the blaster reflection aspect). James Luceno (author of the Episode 3 novelisation) describes it along the lines of a primarily kinetic, strength-based Form: purely offensive, designed to overwhelm an opponent with aggressive engagement. "A Destroyer Droid with a Lightsaber" was how he put it. The concept firmly revolves around the old "the best defense is a good offense". It's designed to be a Jedi's counter to Sith aggression: instead of retaining the passive defense of Soresu, or the acrobatic maneuvering of Ataru, Djem-So focuses on meeting the blade head-on, and using simple motion and momentum to position an opponent, overwhelm and then end them.
The defensive aspect you described is actually counter-offensive: using an opponent's attack as a means of crafting your own. Soresu and Djem-So both use this, reflecting rather than deflecting a blaster bolt back to the attacker - Soresu as a means of defending and reducing down the possibility of attack, Djem-So usually as a means of opening a line of engagement. Reflect a shot back to your attacker, it either drops them or forces them to evade, which leaves you an opening to press your own attack. It's pretty ferocious, and it'd require one hell of a lot of single-minded aggression.
What you were looking at was Ataru: this is a form based around motion as well, but while Djem-So focuses on pure offense, Ataru is a more balanced form, using the environment and one's own positioning to put an opponent off-balance. Makashi emphasises that a lightsaberist must always maintain effective positional balance to stay defensively and offensively versatile: Ataru takes this wisdom and uses acrobatics and movement as a means of forcing the opponent into a position that leaves them vulnerable. Defensively, it operates through evasion rather than engagement (so, dodge rather than parry), and offensively, it's about moving your opponent to where you want him, so that they lose by virtue of being outmaneuvered.
The defensive aspect you described is actually counter-offensive: using an opponent's attack as a means of crafting your own. Soresu and Djem-So both use this, reflecting rather than deflecting a blaster bolt back to the attacker - Soresu as a means of defending and reducing down the possibility of attack, Djem-So usually as a means of opening a line of engagement. Reflect a shot back to your attacker, it either drops them or forces them to evade, which leaves you an opening to press your own attack. It's pretty ferocious, and it'd require one hell of a lot of single-minded aggression.
What you were looking at was Ataru: this is a form based around motion as well, but while Djem-So focuses on pure offense, Ataru is a more balanced form, using the environment and one's own positioning to put an opponent off-balance. Makashi emphasises that a lightsaberist must always maintain effective positional balance to stay defensively and offensively versatile: Ataru takes this wisdom and uses acrobatics and movement as a means of forcing the opponent into a position that leaves them vulnerable. Defensively, it operates through evasion rather than engagement (so, dodge rather than parry), and offensively, it's about moving your opponent to where you want him, so that they lose by virtue of being outmaneuvered.
Kurayami Bloodborn
Drunken Savant
Form V, specifically Djem-so was developed by practitioners of Form III Soresu. They took a more aggressive route to keep from protracted battles while still maintaining a relatively solid defense. You are right in that they focused more on counters and creating openings rather than simply exploiting them. Shien, the subform of Form V was more geared towards defense against blaster fire. This is the basis of the reverse grip style of saber combat that Starkiller used in the Force Unleashed games.
Basically while Form V is defensive to a degree it is also highly offensive in its nature and requires a more aggressive approach. As such many 'traditional' Jedi were wary of their comrades who utilized the form due to the fact that since they were more openly aggressive they were seen as treading closer to the Dark side.
If you are looking for a combination of different techniques, not necessarily constrained to a particular form the look into Form VI, Niman. The practitioners rarely mastered a single form and instead took elements from the preceding five and worked it into a personalized approach to saber combat. This was a form utilized more by Consulars who spent most of their time investigating the deeper mysteries of the Force.
This is all as best as I remember. Hope you find it somewhat helpful [member="Ryn'Dhal"].
Basically while Form V is defensive to a degree it is also highly offensive in its nature and requires a more aggressive approach. As such many 'traditional' Jedi were wary of their comrades who utilized the form due to the fact that since they were more openly aggressive they were seen as treading closer to the Dark side.
If you are looking for a combination of different techniques, not necessarily constrained to a particular form the look into Form VI, Niman. The practitioners rarely mastered a single form and instead took elements from the preceding five and worked it into a personalized approach to saber combat. This was a form utilized more by Consulars who spent most of their time investigating the deeper mysteries of the Force.
This is all as best as I remember. Hope you find it somewhat helpful [member="Ryn'Dhal"].
Ryn'Dhal
Silver Shroud
[member="Teynara Jeralyr"]
Okay then, to reorganize my intention, based on your explanation (which is FAR more sufficient than Wookiepedia was for me), I would rather focus Ataru for eventual mastery, but would seek to become adept in both sides of Form V eventually.
Thank you VERY much!
Okay then, to reorganize my intention, based on your explanation (which is FAR more sufficient than Wookiepedia was for me), I would rather focus Ataru for eventual mastery, but would seek to become adept in both sides of Form V eventually.
Thank you VERY much!
Aspiring Jedi
[member="Ryn'Dhal"] No problem.
[member="Kei Amadis"] Sorry for the temporary hijacking, Master. Though I now return your student to you knowing exactly what he wants, so perhaps a little clarity on his part will make your job a little easier. I hope!
[member="Kei Amadis"] Sorry for the temporary hijacking, Master. Though I now return your student to you knowing exactly what he wants, so perhaps a little clarity on his part will make your job a little easier. I hope!
Silver Guardian
You're all welcome to learn whatever you want, however you want, and make it your style. Getting a good grounding is the best way to go however, I do agree with the others, because it becomes a real asset in a duel when someone is swinging wildly, you know the moves, you know how your saber (and body) would react well and can counter as such. Most duelist honestly don't have that in their posts, when you see someone who does, its impressive and makes the back and forth really fun.
Thanks though for going through the basics of the forms together. [member="Teynara Jeralyr"] | [member="Kurayami Bloodborn"]
I will set us up something that trains the basics of Force sense, by tomorrow, takes us in to Ataru, leading in to the first steps of more advanced ataru and force sense combined, sound good? [member="Ryn'Dhal"] Haven't done advanced ataru for a long time, should be fun, as nailing it down (literally) is quite a challenge.
Thanks though for going through the basics of the forms together. [member="Teynara Jeralyr"] | [member="Kurayami Bloodborn"]
I will set us up something that trains the basics of Force sense, by tomorrow, takes us in to Ataru, leading in to the first steps of more advanced ataru and force sense combined, sound good? [member="Ryn'Dhal"] Haven't done advanced ataru for a long time, should be fun, as nailing it down (literally) is quite a challenge.
Aspiring Jedi
[member="Kei Amadis"] I've always tried to teach a simple principle when it comes to lightsaber combat: the Forms are about mindset more than movement. There are plenty of sword disciplines in the world, but most of them contain fairly similar elements - where they tend to differ is in the mindset of the person wielding it. Sure, you get one- and two-handed styles, different ready/transitioning stances, particular preferences for the old parry-riposte, but most of the work that goes into them focuses on the state of mind of the warrior using them.
The Forms lay this out pretty firmly:
Shii-Cho: a basic Form where students learn simple technique (footwork, parrying, blocking, cutting, piercing etc), learning to understand how to wield a lightsaber effectively. The Form itself focuses upon simplicity, keeping everything straightforward and fundamentally efficient. This thus suits those who prefer basic technique, but also those who do not seek to spend much time focusing on lightsaber combat, while remaining able to defend themselves effectively. There's a considerable tendency to avoid over-complicating things, so a Jedi using Shii-Cho as a mainstream Form will always seek straightforward solutions where possible.
Makashi: focusing on lightsaber-to-lightsaber combat, little emphasis is given upon Force usage or blaster deflection/reflection. Technique emphasis is upon use of single-handed weapons, wrist supination/pronation, parries rather than blocks, and balanced footwork. Psychological emphasis focuses on disarmament and efficiency against single opponents. Less functionally effective against multiple adversaries or ranged weapons. Users tend to be more psychologically ruthless, and admire strong sense of strategy.
Soresu: focuses primarily in static/semi-passive defense. The Soresu user is the brick wall that nothing can get past, and thus their mindset focuses on maintaining a solid defensive presence, sacrificing offensive opportunity and keeping a calm, passive mindset, and are more likely to tend towards pacifism, since their inclination is not to defeat their opponent directly, but rather use their own technique to help the opponent defeat themselves. Best suited to individuals who have a strong sense of protectivism, or prefer to stand their ground in confrontations rather than explore other alternatives.
Ataru: adapted for those Jedi/Sith who think fast, tend to be environmentally observant, and prefer to outwit an opponent rather than simply overwhelm them, Ataru focuses upon physical evasion and outmaneuvering, with practitioners being strategists that like to outflank an opponent and use cunning to position themselves to best take advantage of any momentary slip-ups. Although potentially offensive, the mindset of the Ataru user is one that acts a little like a steel trap: patient, waiting for the right moment to make a decisive move that puts the battle beyond the ability of the opponent to win it. This naturally can apply to situations outside of battle!
Djem-So: aggressive, forthright, direct, the Djem-So practitioner sees solutions to issues as being straightforward, but requiring an assertive/aggressive approach. Unlikely to be particularly passive, such a person will present themselves with considerable confidence, and always seek direct solutions to a problem. They can be perceived as lacking in subtlety, but tend to also have fairly penetrating insight, able to see to the heart of matters quickly and pick out solutions that will resolve them with little difficulty.
Niman: creative, passionate, but believing in a sense of balance between opposing forces, Niman practitioners tend towards versatility, and will entertain many different potential solutions to a problem. They are more likely to be open-minded, but also possibly whimsical and flighty, since they do not have any single set tendency, and may choose different methodologies based on how they feel, or what they feel may be most effective at the time. They must, of course, be studious and dedicated to learning the Jedi/Sith arts, since such practitioners must also be well versed in the arts of Diplomacy, Force techniques and so on. Thus, they are far more likely to learn more esoteric arts, such as Force Healing, Sith Alchemy etc.
Vaapad/Juyo: a being willing to embrace their desire for battle, willing to look at their own inner darkness and channel it into direct destructive form, these practitioners are likely to be those with a very keen emotional self-awareness and a willingness to put it to effective use. Though they may occasionally be impulsive (though those few are unlikely to survive their training in these techniques!), they are willing to place their very selves on the line to resolve situations, and thus will also appear charismatic, passionate and energetic. However, this also has a darker side, insofar as they may be clearly quick to anger, less likely to listen to reason when conflict arises, and ruthlessly efficient in dealing with any threats that arise - even if there are alternative methods available for resolving a situation.
Just a few notes I thought might be of use to you in training
The Forms lay this out pretty firmly:
Shii-Cho: a basic Form where students learn simple technique (footwork, parrying, blocking, cutting, piercing etc), learning to understand how to wield a lightsaber effectively. The Form itself focuses upon simplicity, keeping everything straightforward and fundamentally efficient. This thus suits those who prefer basic technique, but also those who do not seek to spend much time focusing on lightsaber combat, while remaining able to defend themselves effectively. There's a considerable tendency to avoid over-complicating things, so a Jedi using Shii-Cho as a mainstream Form will always seek straightforward solutions where possible.
Makashi: focusing on lightsaber-to-lightsaber combat, little emphasis is given upon Force usage or blaster deflection/reflection. Technique emphasis is upon use of single-handed weapons, wrist supination/pronation, parries rather than blocks, and balanced footwork. Psychological emphasis focuses on disarmament and efficiency against single opponents. Less functionally effective against multiple adversaries or ranged weapons. Users tend to be more psychologically ruthless, and admire strong sense of strategy.
Soresu: focuses primarily in static/semi-passive defense. The Soresu user is the brick wall that nothing can get past, and thus their mindset focuses on maintaining a solid defensive presence, sacrificing offensive opportunity and keeping a calm, passive mindset, and are more likely to tend towards pacifism, since their inclination is not to defeat their opponent directly, but rather use their own technique to help the opponent defeat themselves. Best suited to individuals who have a strong sense of protectivism, or prefer to stand their ground in confrontations rather than explore other alternatives.
Ataru: adapted for those Jedi/Sith who think fast, tend to be environmentally observant, and prefer to outwit an opponent rather than simply overwhelm them, Ataru focuses upon physical evasion and outmaneuvering, with practitioners being strategists that like to outflank an opponent and use cunning to position themselves to best take advantage of any momentary slip-ups. Although potentially offensive, the mindset of the Ataru user is one that acts a little like a steel trap: patient, waiting for the right moment to make a decisive move that puts the battle beyond the ability of the opponent to win it. This naturally can apply to situations outside of battle!
Djem-So: aggressive, forthright, direct, the Djem-So practitioner sees solutions to issues as being straightforward, but requiring an assertive/aggressive approach. Unlikely to be particularly passive, such a person will present themselves with considerable confidence, and always seek direct solutions to a problem. They can be perceived as lacking in subtlety, but tend to also have fairly penetrating insight, able to see to the heart of matters quickly and pick out solutions that will resolve them with little difficulty.
Niman: creative, passionate, but believing in a sense of balance between opposing forces, Niman practitioners tend towards versatility, and will entertain many different potential solutions to a problem. They are more likely to be open-minded, but also possibly whimsical and flighty, since they do not have any single set tendency, and may choose different methodologies based on how they feel, or what they feel may be most effective at the time. They must, of course, be studious and dedicated to learning the Jedi/Sith arts, since such practitioners must also be well versed in the arts of Diplomacy, Force techniques and so on. Thus, they are far more likely to learn more esoteric arts, such as Force Healing, Sith Alchemy etc.
Vaapad/Juyo: a being willing to embrace their desire for battle, willing to look at their own inner darkness and channel it into direct destructive form, these practitioners are likely to be those with a very keen emotional self-awareness and a willingness to put it to effective use. Though they may occasionally be impulsive (though those few are unlikely to survive their training in these techniques!), they are willing to place their very selves on the line to resolve situations, and thus will also appear charismatic, passionate and energetic. However, this also has a darker side, insofar as they may be clearly quick to anger, less likely to listen to reason when conflict arises, and ruthlessly efficient in dealing with any threats that arise - even if there are alternative methods available for resolving a situation.
Just a few notes I thought might be of use to you in training
Silver Guardian
All true and a great read, mindset is important and some duels, posts or stories will just flow based solely on that.
Emotion is again another key part of the forms, whether they steady you, drive you or how you react to them.
However there is a lot to be said about knowing how to move your weapon, where to put your feet, your grip, and how to move your weight, for that I have a plethora of old videos and experience to assist.
If someone says he orbits the saber in his grip, it for example helps to know what he's saying, or at least get enough you can picture it in your mind what is going on. Or for example to be able to see yourself over committing to an attack, and about to end up in trouble etc.
The more pieces you put together, or have use of, the more you can put into or work with for your roleplaying.
Emotion is again another key part of the forms, whether they steady you, drive you or how you react to them.
However there is a lot to be said about knowing how to move your weapon, where to put your feet, your grip, and how to move your weight, for that I have a plethora of old videos and experience to assist.
If someone says he orbits the saber in his grip, it for example helps to know what he's saying, or at least get enough you can picture it in your mind what is going on. Or for example to be able to see yourself over committing to an attack, and about to end up in trouble etc.
The more pieces you put together, or have use of, the more you can put into or work with for your roleplaying.
Aspiring Jedi
[member="Kei Amadis"] Absolutely agree. Remind me to put something together on the language of combat. But you're definitely right about that one!
Ryn'Dhal
Silver Shroud
[member="Teynara Jeralyr"]
According to what you wrote above about mindset to Forms, Soresu is genuinely the most fitting for me, followed by Ataru. Djem-So doesn't fit with my mentality at all, according to what was written above.
According to what you wrote above about mindset to Forms, Soresu is genuinely the most fitting for me, followed by Ataru. Djem-So doesn't fit with my mentality at all, according to what was written above.
Ryn'Dhal
Silver Shroud
[member="Kei Amadis"]
I very much look forward to any lessons you're able and willing to impart.
I very much look forward to any lessons you're able and willing to impart.
Silver Guardian
[member="Ryn'Dhal"]
And we are away as promised:
http://starwarsrp.net/topic/71808-building-techniques-and-forms-ryndhal/#entry1067060
Let me know if the setup needs tweaking.
And we are away as promised:
http://starwarsrp.net/topic/71808-building-techniques-and-forms-ryndhal/#entry1067060
Let me know if the setup needs tweaking.
Ikki Ike
The Jedi Maid
[member="Kei Amadis"] I want a space pony
and lightsaber lessons for defense with my magic wire.
and lightsaber lessons for defense with my magic wire.
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