Consequences of Not Participating?

[Kamon's OOC]

So I have a question for staff because I'm curious and have never seen a definitive answer specifically on this topic:

If person X launches a thread attacking Person Y's company, as an example, in a public thread and tags Person Y, but Person Y opts not to participate while Person X proceeds to steal all their data in the thread, can they actually steal the data to create the items made by Person Y's company and submit their variant to the factory?

I know we can't be forced to participate in threads, but I'm just wondering if staff would allow people to do steal intellectual property in such a manner?

 

[Valiens Nantaris]

[member="Ignus"]
Similar to this last thread of yours, you seem to be making a point regarding something others don't know about.

However, it's a fair question. [member="Cira"] can give an official answer as Factory Admin, but my inclination is to say no, you can't.

It would be unfair and unwarranted to just start raiding threads against every company in order to steal their stuff. There's no consequence for the attacker doing so, whilst the defender has to continually be looking over their shoulder. So you can be raided, but actually using that to make things for the factory is a little far.

The exception would be invasions/rebellions set on a planet where a company has a stated location. There, since the planet can change hands and the stakes are higher, I think some form of espionage is warranted. But don't go to a branch office and expect to steal plans for Star Destroyers and semi-unique tech!

 

[Teynara Jeralyr]

[member="Valiens Nantaris"]

So, would it be best for such writers to co-ordinate with the owner of a company, and arrange what technology they might reasonably be able to steal through such espionage?

 

[Kamon's OOC]

[member="Valiens Nantaris"]
Curiosity because a certain individual seems to enjoy trying to launch blind threads to steal people's stuff, but it actually made a good question come to mind so I figured I'd post it and get an official response for the future.

It just brought to mind a good question to get answered is all. I agree with your answer, but will see what [member="Cira"] says too.

 

[Valiens Nantaris]

[member="Tirdarius"]
Right. I know that I have tech I want more protected than others.

But if the person really doesn't want to take part they can't be forced to lose their stuff due to it.

 

[Teynara Jeralyr]

[member="Valiens Nantaris"]

I was honestly hoping you'd say that. Cheers!

 

[Alric Kuhn]

Personally, and this is obviously not reflective of how the Factory feels about this, I've always thought that once you put something into the public space anyone can take it.

That is to say, once you say that you have a facility somewhere, once you say that said facility produces a product, it's there for anyone to take as long as they try. This is why all of my subs pertaining to production and storage have their defenses listed.

It's only logical that once something exist, it can be stolen whether or not it is defended. As long as those people doing the stealing are respectful of the creators written defenses and don't just take everything in one post I think it's more than fine.

Personally for me, once its out there, its out there.

 

[Jsc]

[member="Alric Kuhn"] - Generally I'd agree with you. However, a conflict can exist when both writers dislike each other, have a history of negativity, and/or have blocked each other in their Control Panels. In such a situation, (which I've been in before,) it becomes somewhat ridiculous to expect these two writers to RP together. Especially given how our dueling system involves a very high level of give-an-take and OOC cooperation.

Not being forced to interact with anybody is pretty great when you look at it that way. 2 cents.

 

[Alric Kuhn]

[member="Jay Scott Clark"]

I see the merits of that, and understand it, but honestly we're all adults here(most of us anyway) and we should just get over that.

Yes we can't force people to roleplay with one another, and nor should we be forcing people to do so. But again in my opinion it's kind of unrealistic to say "No you can't steal anything from this place that exist because this writer doesn't like you" because it does exist.

Like it's in the universe of Chaos the item is there, so ICly why wouldn't you be able to steal it? Why shouldn't you be able to steal it?

I think this is probably one of the greatest breaks of OOC and IC, and personally I believe it's just kind of the stake of creating a company and subbing stuff, just like getting invaded is part of being a Major Faction on the Map. Some people don't want to deal with invasions, but that's just part of the game.

Again though this is just my opinion.

 

[thegreatbeyonder]

Curiosity because a certain individual seems to enjoy trying to launch blind threads to steal people's stuff

I assume this is directed at me, about the Telos thread.

Quite frankly it's your company. Just like I can't force your character to do something, I can't force your company to either. In this case it's entirely up to you what is (or isn't) found at your company HQ.

 

[Daxton Bane]

Here is my thoughts on this, just like in the real world tech can be stolen or acquired by dubious means, not that Daxton would ever officially do that. So lets say you wrote a thread where you stole something, you might have stole the thing but you didnt get the tech. If the item anything short of limited, you are better off buying it at the market. If the item is limited or higher, then it could be considered a raid where only the item was stolen. Again the item not the tech.

So now I have a shiny limited or better Item that I have acquired, what can I do with it? You could use it or you could reserach the tech on it and reverse engineer it and ontain the tech for yourself. I asked this question awhile back, so this may or may not apply to the new no sub environement but basically back then you still needed the same number of dev posts to reverse engineer the tech. You did the crime now do the time. After all the original developer invested time to create it, why shouldnt you have to spend the same amount of time and resources to do so.

 

[Eddak Manod]

Personally, I prefer interaction with overs versus none at all. So if any of my companies were ever attacked, let's be OOC civil about this. Let's talk fairness. I'm willing to talk about spoils, ransoms, attacks, holds, etc., and I can have fun winning or losing. I won't be out to *never lose, always win* - If I feel, realistically, I'm losing... Then I'm losing. Just contact me first.

 

[Cira]

So I have a question for staff because I'm curious and have never seen a definitive answer specifically on this topic:

If person X launches a thread attacking Person Y's company, as an example, in a public thread and tags Person Y, but Person Y opts not to participate while Person X proceeds to steal all their data in the thread, can they actually steal the data to create the items made by Person Y's company and submit their variant to the factory?

I know we can't be forced to participate in threads, but I'm just wondering if staff would allow people to do steal intellectual property in such a manner?

This is about the same thought process as when your Ignus character used VT Throne intellectual property to reverse engineer it and created your own version of it for your droid piloting program without the owner's input.

It doesn't matter if you reply to a skirmish or not because a writer can easily take intellectual property by buying it.

Let's look at what the prefix of a skirmish is:

- This prefix indicates that a faction, company, or individual is attacking another. The attack is not as high-stakes as an invasion in the sense that no real gains are made and no real losses are had. These threads are usually open for everyone.

So no real losses and no real gains. It isn't the skirmish itself that does anything with grabbing intellectual property, it is the research and the storyline that you do to actually reverse engineer it that counts.

When it comes to reverse engineering, you can expect to have to put in the exact amount of development that the previous writer had put into creating it themselves; even after "No more development threads" come into play in the Factory. That's their creation and yes, I will ensure that it is protected -- but you can only do so much if someone decides to buy it and go ham into 300 posts of trying to figure out how some blaster works. The Factory is a system of checks and balances.

Ultimately, it is Wheton's law - Don't be an Asshat. If a writer wants to try and take someone's intellectual property, man up and actually talk to the writer and see what you can do about it. Or if you just want to go about it icly, then expect repercussions from the Company you stole in turn with an equal tit for a tat.

But staff will never force any writer to have to write with another writer. Skirmishes in the end, don't mean anything; you can easily make another thread saying that whatever damage is fixed.

 

[Kamon's OOC]

[member="Cira"]
Damn... *goes to buy himself some burn cream*

To be fair I did try and discuss that with you but you kinda stopped responding. But I had gone through the RP process of purchasing usage of the throne and then reverse engineered it. Couldn't directly replicate it, but I combined pieces of it with canon tech. So it's a little different.

The real question was whether or not someone could just waltz in and steal your stuff whether you RP'd with them or not, though. It's not in a skirmish, or a rebellion, or an invasion, or anything like that. I mean in just a public thread at random. If you don't participate because you don't wish to RP with them, are they free to steal and then reverse engineer your ideas? It makes sense that if you engage them and lose that you'll have to bite the bullet on something. But if you don't (what happens if the person is on LOA but hasn't posted an LOA and people just keep going and they come back and find someone's ripped off their idea, for example?) then they shouldn't just gain access to your stuff. Because then every tom dick and harry will be making threads like these to steal people's stuff and then what's the point of making things exclusive anymore?

 

[Cira]

[member="Ignus"]

I guess to put it in simple terms; when it comes to intellectual property and REing it -- the Factory will always have checks and balances. Just because one raids in a skirmish / or buys it legally, doesn't mean that the final product they put in the factory will be the exact same as the original.

So yes, they can still raid whatever they want from a Skirmish even if you don't reply, but just because they raid whatever they want doesn't mean that they will get exactly that in the factory if they submit a version of it for their own.

Just not how it works.

Adding the caveat that whomever a skirmish is being declared against must have been tagged, pm'd, and notified. Try and steal someone's items without even giving them proper notice is a quick way of ending up having to return it back. Be respectful.

I think you are really asking two different questions: one is about intellectual property -- the other is just ooc harassment. And if you believe that there is a harassment issue, then that is taken care of in an entirely different matter and may require a report with Admin oversight.

 

[Kamon's OOC]

[member="Cira"]
I wanted to know the former, as I said. The latter is inconsequential.

Thanks for answering.