Lynn Nantaris
Corerunner
What are your thoughts?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41ZRvhbNDxQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41ZRvhbNDxQ
Star Wars Roleplay: Chaos
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Dark Side and Light Side....flipped?
- Thread starter Lynn Nantaris
- Start date
Gherron Dragovalor
Space dad
Honestly i've always had reservations about the Jedi, and the video shows exactly why. They actually tend to be hypocrites in a lot of cases, and they manipulate, while the Sith do in fact often seek out and pass on knowledge.
Jsc
Disney's Princess
[member="Lynn Corerunner"]
Star Wars is a children's bed time story written by multiple authors with no sense of cohesion. As such, it's about as waterproof and morally warped as telling your children that Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and the Tooth Fairy are real people.
If you're looking for light, truth, and the one true doctrine? Try HBO.
Star Wars is a children's bed time story written by multiple authors with no sense of cohesion. As such, it's about as waterproof and morally warped as telling your children that Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and the Tooth Fairy are real people.
If you're looking for light, truth, and the one true doctrine? Try HBO.
Sur'tra Sunblade
Valkyri Warrior
The greatest stories are born out of the dark and the light--the twilight of the Gods.
Valiens Nantaris
Head Admin
They're mistaking Light and Dark for Jedi and Sith only.
Samka Derith
Decitus Ren
The Jedi Order is not perfect for a variety of reasons but you'd be hard-pressed to find anything in canon showing the Sith as anything less than pure evil. Star Wars is a realm of fiction where good and evil are supposed to be clear cut. Emperor Palpatine deliberately has no redemable character traits because he is designed as the great evil Luke Skywalker and his allies must overcome. It's worth noting that most of the Jedi flaws came in with the Prequels which have... interesting writing so I really doubt Lucas intended his heroes to be as flawed as they ended up. Going into an expanded universe, many writers write morally dubious characters genuinely not seeing anything wrong with some extreme actions which you will find plenty of on this board for instance.
Aspiring Jedi
[member="Samka Derith"]
Well, to be fair, there's not a lot to current Canon: most of the material that shows the Sith as something other than 'pure evil' exists in the Legends material. True, you still get your mostly-evil people (Marka Ragnos, Exar Kun, Naga Sadow etc), but the closer you look (particularly when you see what Vergere and Lumiya have to say about the Sith), the more you realise they're not evil: they're pragmatic survivalists with a superiority complex. They don't hesitate to kill or destroy if they see that as the way to do what needs to be done in their eyes. You also notice that the Jedi tend to be stagnation-maintaining agents of a corrupt government, trying desperately to keep things peaceful and quiet (which is absurd) while never having the guts to step up and do what needs doing to fix the aforementioned government. Unsurprising that the Sith resort to desperate measures to try and resolve the situation!
By the by, what Lucas intended in the Prequels is pretty much what we got: a mess. But the clearer observation you get from watching the films and reading the books is that the Jedi ended up being a peaceful Order utterly challenged and destroyed by war, which they were never supposed to participate in. Even their role as 'Keepers of the Peace' was a perversion of Jedi philosophy: they were forced into such a position because they were the only ones who could. They were in over their heads, and positioned that way by a Sith Lord who knew they were the biggest obstacle to changes in the Republic. When the Jedi were gone, so too fell the Republic, and in ushered the Empire: peaceful, disciplined, orderly, although sadly also xenophobic and oppressive. What you can recognise about the Jedi, though, is this: they believed in the system that had already failed them hundreds of times, and were the only thing preserving it. That's what you call both dedicated and wholly misguided!
Well, to be fair, there's not a lot to current Canon: most of the material that shows the Sith as something other than 'pure evil' exists in the Legends material. True, you still get your mostly-evil people (Marka Ragnos, Exar Kun, Naga Sadow etc), but the closer you look (particularly when you see what Vergere and Lumiya have to say about the Sith), the more you realise they're not evil: they're pragmatic survivalists with a superiority complex. They don't hesitate to kill or destroy if they see that as the way to do what needs to be done in their eyes. You also notice that the Jedi tend to be stagnation-maintaining agents of a corrupt government, trying desperately to keep things peaceful and quiet (which is absurd) while never having the guts to step up and do what needs doing to fix the aforementioned government. Unsurprising that the Sith resort to desperate measures to try and resolve the situation!
By the by, what Lucas intended in the Prequels is pretty much what we got: a mess. But the clearer observation you get from watching the films and reading the books is that the Jedi ended up being a peaceful Order utterly challenged and destroyed by war, which they were never supposed to participate in. Even their role as 'Keepers of the Peace' was a perversion of Jedi philosophy: they were forced into such a position because they were the only ones who could. They were in over their heads, and positioned that way by a Sith Lord who knew they were the biggest obstacle to changes in the Republic. When the Jedi were gone, so too fell the Republic, and in ushered the Empire: peaceful, disciplined, orderly, although sadly also xenophobic and oppressive. What you can recognise about the Jedi, though, is this: they believed in the system that had already failed them hundreds of times, and were the only thing preserving it. That's what you call both dedicated and wholly misguided!
Greifen Ren
Knight of Ren
The problem with Star Wars in general is that it tries to superimpose a dualistic good/evil morality on top of what is essentially the Oriental philosophy of the Jedi and Sith, where no such concept really exists. You'll notice that there is nothing inherently evil about the Sith Code, as has been pointed out. Same goes for the Jedi Code. But Star Wars presents itself as very romantic and idealist, with a clear distinction between Light and Dark, Light always being good, Dark always being bad, and it's always clear what is Light and what is Dark, with no space for ambiguous morality. It's a very Western concept that doesn't fit well with the Orientalist thematics.
In my opinion, the expanded universe did a much better job of fleshing out the morality of Star Wars than the movies did. KOTOR II is a good example of poking holes in the rigid Good/Bad dichotomy. The Republic is being invaded and losing badly, but the Jedi don't do anything because war bad peace good. A group of Jedi including the player character refuse to obey and intervene, and are then exiled by the Jedi for their disobedience. At many points you can call them out on their pacifism simply being an excuse for inactivity and cowardice, and their supposedly high morality having no problems with sitting back as untold millions of innocents died. All of this fits a "good" player character too.
In my opinion, the expanded universe did a much better job of fleshing out the morality of Star Wars than the movies did. KOTOR II is a good example of poking holes in the rigid Good/Bad dichotomy. The Republic is being invaded and losing badly, but the Jedi don't do anything because war bad peace good. A group of Jedi including the player character refuse to obey and intervene, and are then exiled by the Jedi for their disobedience. At many points you can call them out on their pacifism simply being an excuse for inactivity and cowardice, and their supposedly high morality having no problems with sitting back as untold millions of innocents died. All of this fits a "good" player character too.
Tellos
Active Member
[member="Greifen Ren"] I do not think it's so cut and dry. the jedi at times made whole armies to fight. What happens is they submit to the will of others too often. The republic didint want them in on politicla matters but wanted them to fight for them. People including jedi councils seem to want it obth ways and find out it's not possible. My own jedi is frustrated with this vewi to her if they have this pwoer and are suppsoed to be guardians of peace and justice then they must be willing to fight for that. Not sit idly by because it may offend others. it is a common issue of some organizatiosn as they grow they become too used to their own thoughts and dislike others pushign them along.
The sith tend to go evil cause they let their emotions go full tilt on them. Control them and whatever good intentiosn many may begin with more often than not it currupts them. Their fear, hate and anger send them to destroy things in persuit of power. Whiel this breeds good competetion it means for a unstable governing force. Thus in fighting and strife because nobody trusts anyone else fully.
The sith tend to go evil cause they let their emotions go full tilt on them. Control them and whatever good intentiosn many may begin with more often than not it currupts them. Their fear, hate and anger send them to destroy things in persuit of power. Whiel this breeds good competetion it means for a unstable governing force. Thus in fighting and strife because nobody trusts anyone else fully.