Star Wars Roleplay: Chaos

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[Discussion] Range and Scale

Grand Admiral, First Order Central Command
Star Wars canon is horrifically inconsistent when it comes to things like range scale. You have stuff that talks about turbolasers being effective only at 10's of kilometers and weapons like concussion missiles used in the 100s of meters.

While the above can safely be dismissed as pure nonsense is does drive home the point that we never really see extended battle sequences in the movies and when we do it tends to focus on close-in fighting because, well, that's more cinematic.

Fortunately there's ways around this problem without using any hard numbers, and that seems to be the convention we tend to follow. What I'll detail below is what I assume to be the case. At its core, there's five range bands.

Close/Melee: Dogfighting range, or where strike craft get to when hitting a capital ship. Capital ships normally never get this close to each other unless it's ramming time. No weapons as far as I can tell are designed for operation in this range band, and most are inoperable entirely. I do assume that this is where antimissile octets shine, that last ditch line of defense.

Short: The domain of defensive weapons and, apparently, most warheads. This is troubling for me to accept, since it's quite the opposite of real-world missiles, but there's relative consistency that missiles and the like are a short-range high-damage weapon. This would be a broadside battle (as seen at Endor and Coruscant).

Medium/Standard: Defined by the general effective range of a turbolaser, Medium is a large range band (imo) and weapons get increasingly effective and accurate the closer you get to 'Short.'

Long: Two fleets reverting on opposite sides of a gravity well would probably start off here. Conventional Mass Drivers can technically be effective here but lack the velocity to sustain any sort of accuracy. Turbolasers tend to dissipate and lose power, or something.

Extreme: One edge of a system to the other, more or less. Projectile weapons can theoretically hit stuff at this range but if the target can maneuver, probably not. With a Long-Range HVC and good targeting computers, you might get someone. Once.

Range bands get progressively larger the higher you go. I also tend to assume that weapon fire is generally more effective the closer you are (basically a damage multiplier) largely due to increased accuracy. Heavy turbolasers at close range pack a serious punch.

So how does this line up with how you all feel?
 
[member="Cyrus Tregessar"]
The glaring variety of canon sources on range is infuriating. For instance, we have scales given in kilometres sometimes, but in others the range of the Venator's guns is 7.2 light seconds, which is millions of kilometres.

Thus I sort of work it through with a 1-20 range scale where 1-10 is regular range and 11-20 is 'long' range.

But it's all so maddeningly imprecise it's very much a barrier even for veterans to understand.
 
[member="Cyrus Tregessar"] [member="Valiens Nantaris"]

Makes sense. I usually try and avoid using numbers based on range inconsistency and go for a more descriptive narrative of stages. Those being out of range, moving to range, and in range. When you first post in the thread everything but specified "Long Range" weapons are out of range. Then you chose a target based on whatever criteria fits your goal and moving towards them. After a post or two unless they are speaking moving away from you then you are in range.

It's a little over simplified probably but I hate math.

This of course is unless a particular thread has an attached map with it such as the Omega event did.
 
[member="Cyrus Tregessar"] I remember that we had this discussion before I even subbed the Volksgrenadier MIRVs in the first place. You quoted the efficiency of point-defense (excluding anything like Bastion) as the reason why we don't see many long-range missiles in canon. And also why I made the 380mm HVC a long-range one...

[member="Vengeance"] Pretty much what I did on Kaeshana, too: opening moves at long range, one or two posts after, I then open fire at standard turbolaser range. That is why I do not include any hard numbers when I sub starship components in the Factory.
 
It is the primary reason I've used maps in the past, even if there's no other rules system; establish range.

It's not a problem we're going to solve unless we create a SWRP scale of ranges...which makes things more technical rather than less!
 
Grand Admiral, First Order Central Command
[member="Cathul Thuku"]

Yep, this post is inspired at least in part by that discussion. Also reading through the FFG Star Wars RPG rules, which use abstract range bands rather than hard numbers.

[member="Valiens Nantaris"]

I'm hesitant to try and formalize any system but I do think that having relatively abstract range bands is pretty simple and not terribly mechanically intensive. It would help clarify at least one often vague aspect of fleeting.
 
Grand Admiral, First Order Central Command
[member="Valiens Nantaris"]

Nonsense that's never a problem... >.>

Well it's not a problem in 1v1 at least. Maybe there's a sort of broad system that would work, though again we're getting into dangerous 'system' territory.
 

Tellos

Active Member
You can use complicated axis's systems but yes that gets crazy and the math gets heady. I'd almost argue maybe zones or something could work. Or some grid formation.
 

Tellos

Active Member
[member="Valiens Nantaris"] Perhaps then designating a zone for each player controlled and planetary body or large object. From there designating how many zones away one is from things and giving a speed. Then for range 1 zone is short 2 is medium 3+ is long? Maybe thats too imprecise but seems liek it'd be more easy to whip up in a situation.
 

Rusty

Purveyor of Fine Weaponry
Hexes are a pain in the ass. Grids, on the other hand, are still a pain in the ass, but they make life a little easier. Given that most fleet badly battles occur near or around a planet, usually (but not always) at close enough range that natural satellites don't come into play, a simple ten by ten grid with the planet at the center would suffice. For special cases like Yavin or Endor, place the moon in the center and scale the grid so that the planet just peaks in at the bottom of the map. While this is a vast oversimplification of the idea of a battle in three dimensional space, it gives everyone a rough idea of where they are in relation to each other, and writers comfortable in doing so can add a third axis in their writing. It's accessible to newcomers and only mildly annoying to old hands, and can be scaled to meet the needs of the situation. Work out range fans for various classes of weapons and you're set.

Also, hi guys. Long time no see.
 

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