Falling to the Dark Side

[Eugen Aker]

As a new member, I'm not caught up on everyone's stories. For anyone around who has fallen, or skirts with the dark side as a rogue or neutral FU, how did your character get to that point? I'd like to gain some perspective in advance of an IC thread I have planned to discuss this topic.

Starting with myself, Arisa is currently grayish trending to the light, but struggles at times because of a series fo traumatic events dating back to her childhood. More recently, she's felt powerless in the face of senseless terrorist attacks like the one conducted by the Sith at Deneba, where they used children as suicide bombers. One of said children died under her care as she was unable to help them. She craves power to protect herself and the people she loves, but she hasn't necessarily found that yet being a Jedi. At this point, she believes completing her training with the Silver Jedi will make her strong. There's a potential for her to fall to the Dark Side with the right series of pushes, but at worst I think she would become a Dark Jedi, still fighting Sith though without observing the Jedi creed.

 

[NightSister]

Aria's just reaching full Dark Jedi nowish, so I'll chip in.

For a while now, I've had her hanging around Darksiders, not necessarily even being deliberately swayed - though there were plenty of philosophical debates - but just getting comfortable around the Dark, even befriending Sith, and generally just letting up about her rigorous Lightsidedness a bit. She also made a few enemies, but more on that later. A few threads in, and she's wondering what's so terrible about the Dark Side, and she's questioning whether the Jedi really are weak. That was the first step.

Then her Master [member="Connor Harrison"] one day sprang his Sithiness on her without warning, and that shook her up majorly. I've made her fatal flaw be that she's very dependent, in that people close to her are really important to her, so when Connor went Dark Side on her I used that to put her in a vulnerable position, but not yet fallen to the Dark. Finally, she hunted down a Sith Lord who attacked her back in step one, to help 'free' Aria, which brings us back to right now, where she's wounded, easily taken advantage of, and a sadistic Sith Lady has her all to herself. Safe to say, she won't be calling herself a Jedi for some time now.

Best advice I can think of is to drag it out. OOC, this has been planned since Halloween - her fall is unlikely to be complete before New Year's, so a full two months at least - and IC it's taken maybe nine months. Make it take a long time, thread with a lot of people - a Jedi Knight, after all, has been trained to resist these things; it shouldn't be as easy as one person with a talent for emotional manipulation talking her out of the Jedi way within the course of one conversation. Also, make sure you exploit character weaknesses as much as you can - not necessarily using them to drive the story, but use them to hinder her ability/desire to keep being a Jedi. Last, wing it where you can - it makes it more exciting!

Good luck with her story! If I can help nudge her a bit or anything, let me know.

[member="Arisa Yune"]

 

[Connor Harrison]

[member="Arisa Yune"] Connor has been active here since April 2014 and the journey has taken about...2 years in total to flesh out to where you see him now.

Don't be afraid to take risks IC as I certainly have recently, and try not to let OOC feelings get in the way; as in, don't worry if you think other people will be happy or annoyed by your choice because it may sever some relationships or you may be forced to not stand with them in certain ways. The first time I had Connor at a low ebb, I backed out for fear of losing writing partners and how other people would judge me for following the idea. It's bad, I know, but my confidence isn't very high and I decided to back out.

Now, however, I've learnt to simply take chances. You owe it yourself to both challenge and frighten yourself in writing, to take risks and be surprised at what you can do. It's also respect to your character for following their path in the most natural way possible. Connor has been semi-broken for 2 years now since the end of 2014, so you can trace all current events back to events that started then.

He's had relationships that have crashed and burned before even getting off the ground which have affected him and broken his heart, whilst knocking his confidence.

He's lost Padawans to kidnappings, mutilations and (OOC forced) vanishing AWOL.

He's betrayed allies and friends due to being possessed and Sith Magic in his brainstem, and it's left a mark.

He's got a body of scars and reminders of his failures that he could have stopped if he'd been stronger.

Frustration with following codes and rules. Anger at choices made by those close to him. Jealousy. Isolation. Fear.

Connor tried to stay in the Light as a Rogue, but he crossed the line too much and too often to warrant him staying with the Order and it would make no sense for him to. He's dangerous, volatile, single-minded and tactical.

All these things just snowball, and depending on what happens naturally in the RP world - natural is SO important to make it feel real and never forced even if it takes years - then you'll be on a journey you won't know what is going to happen next but must be brave to roll with it, and enjoy it. It certainly keeps your muse fresh!

I also echo Miss [member="Aria Vale"] who is doing a good job; if you need a nudge, or a manipulative word in your ear to push you, just shout.

Happy to help.

 

[Orihime Ike]

based on this, I would say you've already decided to go darkside just are looking for a way to do it. Something common most do when they get bored being a jedi. If it takes little to turn you and despite training and knowledge that it twists your wants and goals from being selfless to selfish with only one side being able to influence you. (after all a jedi experiencing doubts rarely actually consults with other jedi they just go and talk with more darksiders to reinforce their decision) I would recommend just tear the bandage off as 98% of stories involving jedi falling are cliche and overly drawn out.

 

[NightSister]

[member="Orihime Ike"]

What's wrong with changing a character's direction because you're bored? The whole point of RPing and writing in general is to have fun, and if you need to vary where your character goes - which I'd imagine nearly everyone does - then there's nothing wrong with that. The only reason falling to the Dark Side is cliched is because logically, in a life where enough goes on that it's fun to RP, while they might not totally fall to the Dark Side, 95% of people wouldn't be able to stay a Jedi forever. Even if it was logical, it's very hard to make interesting. What you shouldn't do is suddenly go Sith after one thread with a Darksider, no, but if the story makes sense and you build up to the eventual fall, it's great fun to write and isn't a bad thing at all.

 

[Orihime Ike]

It is cliche because jedi who do it generally get bored, think they could go darkside... it would be an amazing story. Then make everything about the falling story except they don't ask if they should as a aspect of the story actually consult others in character or see the dangers of it. They fall then reveal themselves in a grand fashion to convert others and teach them the error of their ways because they were forgotten, betrayed,... except it was generally their ooc decision to force a narrative despite people willing to help them or even offer arguments in game of why it is a bad idea.

Want to have fun that is great but be honest about the reasoning. If you are bored with a faction and characters diretion don't mask it in story. We get enough of that poodoo story claim by groups like sith or mando's to justify griefing and harassment. Story is the excuse given to justify ooc decisions you make and then decide it is the only way to do something.

and being a jedi isn't that hard to make interesting. All a matter of enjoying the lore and when encountering a darksider using your brain instead of just agreeing with them. [member="Sorel Crieff"] does this amazingly, [member="Coci Heavenshield"] does this expertly both with Iella and Coci, [member="Thurion Heavenshield"] is great with it, their child alts Nina and Theo, [member="Kiriko"] and alts do it well.

 

[Joza Perl]

[member="Arisa Yune"] [member="Aria Vale"] [member="Connor Harrison"]

Might I interest you in a Danger Jacket to increase the "Don't mess with me I'm 100% badass forreal" factor?

 

[Connor Harrison]

[member="Orihime Ike"] You have never said something so wrong and almost insulting to us who have taken months/years to craft an honest story that is 100% IC, and nothing about being bored of fed-up with a Faction or characters. That's really not fair to insinuate and really bad to put that label on those who want to follow a process for logical reasons, and then people have your inclination to call us "boring" or "cliche" or whatever.

And so we haven't used our brain in making these stories as real as possible? To really feel how hard it can be for people who have suffered to turn their back on everything they valued?

I don't appreciate how you worded that last paragraph also making out as if we took an easy way out of something. FYI writing as a Jedi has been wonderful, and it's pained me greatly to follow this story through and not pull out due to comments like you made that would make others feel stupid for doing what they thought is a big thing for them.

I said it before and said it again, don't label all those who want to do something worthy with the brush of those who do it on a whim and then never post once they get bored with it.

 

[NightSister]

[member="Joza Perl"]

I can be badass without your jacket.

I'm not.

But I could be.

...

One jacket in whatever size Americans call a small

 

[Eugen Aker]

Thanks to [member="Connor Harrison"] and [member="Aria Vale"] for you input, but my intention with the IC thread is to sit everyone down a figure out why so many of our Jedi are falling, and to actually offer them support instead of being judgemental. It's currently not in the cards for Arisa to fall, but she is struggling as she tries to be a decent Jedi in a chaotic universe while also trying to have something of a personal life.

[member="Orihime Ike"] You're characters are not exactly the paragon of an ideal Jedi. For instance, Matsu angered many locals of Klatooine after exploiting them, defiling a sacred relic for personal projects. There are similiar operations being run everywhere. A lot of times, Matsu and your alts uses our Padawan for personal advancement and development of products. The Ike run one of the largest arms companies in the galaxy.

There's more I can say, but Velok wrote up a nice rap sheet. The proeblem I find with a lot of your characters, ICily, is that they lack empathy. They are not that different from Sith in the way they single mindedly keep seeking knowledge or develop things without care about who they affect. The ends justify the means with them, which is not the Jedi way.

That's not to say they don't do good things, but I wouldn't be so quick to chastise others for behavior you don't agree with.

 

[Orihime Ike]

Which is likely why I didn't hold myself up as an example. I don't consider myself the best jedi, I consider myself average.... but I also don't delude myself into thinking I am special doing something most of the board does.

and I can say what is there based on when we started getting harassed sddenly now there are more jedi who want to go darkside and join the other side.

As to the rap sheet of the Ike's, yeah I do make a lot of my threads into dev threads for things while training padawans, seeing that they learn and see the dangers and explore the galaxy. Do I exploit them? Not really as they are usually happy to help and learn in the threads and my pm's are always opened giving them a chance to make contact. Because it is about more then my story as they should be having fun as well. Lack of empathy and forms of emotion is int he jedi code as is knowledge, harmony and accepting that there is the force.

bah this debate will get boring and as I will likely be outnumbered going to relax and post to padawans.

 

[WolfMortum]

I'm genuinely curious about something after reading this thread and perhaps I missed it as I'm a new entrance member but there seems to be a clear difference in how force alignment is considered compared to back when the faction was called the "Silver Sanctum Coalition"; I do remember there being members with a fairly darker nature about them a decent time ago.

...

As far as Dark Side/Light Side goes for you and your character, that's a personal choice over role-play that you wish to take part in. It shouldn't bother other people on an OOC standing, In-character there will naturally be reactions for good or worse but Out-Of-Character, we all Rp how we like and enjoy, otherwise there wouldn't be much point to being here.

Be yourself, be different, accept that others are different and have fun.

...

Veiere himself has actually come quite close on a couple occasions, one is actually pre-story included in his biography in the fall of Svivren (fictional Rp for Character depth). The other is the battle of Atrisia and the current fallout that is going on with Commenor. Though my joining the Silver Jedi was to ensure he remained light-sided and catch up with a few old pals

 

[Audren Sykes]

I'm genuinely curious about something after reading this thread and perhaps I missed it as I'm a new entrance member but there seems to be a clear difference in how force alignment is considered compared to back when the faction was called the "Silver Sanctum Coalition"; I do remember there being members with a fairly darker nature about them a decent time ago.

You're correct with this. The SJO did have dark-side aligned members when it was the SSC. Not quite sure what the criteria was, but from what I saw it effectively it came down to them keeping with the goals and overall processes of the Sanctum. Fewer random murder sprees and more targeted battlefield mayhem. Once the switch back to the SJO was made Dark-aligned characters left.

 

[Eugen Aker]

Sorry for my typo-laden response earlier, was on mobile.

[member="Orihime Ike"]

On Klatooine, many of the locals are not fans of Sasori because of their prior operations at the Fountain of Ancients. There's now a wholesale ban on a wintrium extraction at or near that location. I imagine after work is complete on the terraforming project, that some may come around, though.

lack of empathy and forms of emotion is int he jedi code as is knowledge, harmony and accepting that there is the force.

No it's not. The old Jedi Code frowns upon personal attachments to discourage discrimination, not to stifle emotion. Jedi should feel compassion for all beings, even the Sith. With our command of the Force, we are able to bridge the gaps between different groups like no one else. While Arisa doesn't agree wholly with this tenant, she is willing to make personal sacrifices for the sake of the greater good.

The pursuit of knowledge is encouraged, but not for its own sake. It's all meant to help us obtain a better appreciation for the people and the world around us through greater understanding. This is exactly why, IC, I would like to speak with folks like Connor and Aria to get a better feel for why Silver Jedi keep falling.

From an OOC perspective, if you don't like so many Jedi falling, then you as a staff member should try attracting new people that want to write as light side FU. I have to also say that in light of the SJO's policy shift on Dark Siders, gray characters like Aria and Ryn should have received more scrutiny during their promotion review. I know it's not fun seeing them fall so soon after their promotion, but that's all on the staff and the people that put them up for promotion in the first place. You can't tell them how to write their characters. They want to enjoy themselves just like you.

This was never meant to be a debate in the first place. I just wanted to hear from writers who have Dark Side or grey FU because I'm interested learning from them how they got to where they are now with their characters.

[member="Connor Harrison"]

So where is Connor now? I can understand his choice for leaving the Order, but that doesn't mean we still can't hang out and help each other. Unhinged, Connor can do things that he couldn't before in the SJO, so he could be an asset. In the grand scheme of things, I don't find him much worse than your typical soldier or agent, though I'm not spun up on everything he's done. Throughout her career as a Jedi and soldier, Arisa has racked up a body count herself, but that hasn't bothered her too much because she was facing belligerents looking for a fight. In private, she sometimes cries about it after the fact, though. She just wishes everyone could get along. Now she finds herself facing new challenges on Klatooine, with problems that can't be solved with her blaster or lightsaber.

[member="Aria Vale"]

Connor looks to be on the dark path for the time being, but do you think there's still time for Aria to recover? Would that something that she would even be open to?

I don't have an issue with people writing about falling as long as they put some work to it. In the past, I've dealt with other FU writers who decided they wanted to flip their tags just because they felt like playing Jedi one week without atoning for their crimes.

[member="Veiere Arenais"]

SJO broke up the SSC and told Dark Siders that they would have to begin rehab to become at least become of gray alignment if they wished to remain within the Order. A lot of them didn't like that, so they bounced to other factions like the GA or FO as writers and characters. Fast forward to now, and I can see at least one of them now turning on the SJO, or just sitting on the sidelines cheering as the board makes the SJO its new punching bag.

 

[WolfMortum]

[member="Arisa Yune"] | [member="Audren Sykes"]

I came into the SJO with the understanding (or rather the lack of), that I could expect to interact with more of a questionable alignment. Some of you knew Veiere from the later days of the GR, most of you however did not. Back then he was ever the traditionalist in his views and through IC character developement he learned to let go of that old school pride that he had, stubborness perhaps to not let go of the old ways, whichever way you wanna see it...

...Point is that I was happy to Rp with Dark Siders as well, hell, Veiere's brother in arms was a Jedi Master turned Sith Lord if that speaks loud enough for the change to the characters black and white perspective...-Yet there being only those focused on the light-side of the Force in this faction certainly works as well.

TL;DR - I was happy either way, simply curious about the change I'd not noticed until now. Thanks for the explanation there and don't fret over peoples RP decisions. It's all just In-Character after all.

<3

 

[NightSister]

[member="Arisa Yune"]

There's a possibility for redemption, but not anytime soon. It would be illogical and reasonably impossible to achieve with where she is now, and I've been wanting to write Aria as a Dark Jedi for some time now, so no, not yet. Depending on where her story goes once she's all Sithed up, it may make sense to have her slowly come back to the Light, but it'll take a while.

why Silver Jedi keep falling.

The main reason is simply that the lifestyle is too much to live with. When Aria renounced the Jedi, she was emotionally exhausted from having been trying to be a good Jedi when she was hurting inside and didn't have the strength left to resist any mindgames and what have you. Other reason is that the Silver Council aren't paying enough attention to the Masters and their Jedi-ness: everyone sort of let Connor do what he wanted, and now he's off being a bad guy with his apprentice about to follow in his footsteps.

If we wanted Jedi to stop falling, we'd need to let them have emotion.

 

[Coci Heavenshield]

Hello everyone.

Although this thread was not started to be a debate and the initial intent was to find out about a few of the members of SJO, a debate is has become, which is fine. But I will ask you all to keep it friendly and respect other peoples RP decisions with their character. Regardless of the length of time they have RPed with us or their characters as either Jedi as Jedi or Jedi fallen is irrelevant and totally up to each and every writer. Now I am aware you all know this and however I do ask for you all to give your fellow members respect in their decisions.

As for the faction, which was created as a lightside faction and had been for a long time before the merge with the Sanctum. The merge was not something that was required by us to remain on the boards but by Lev Sanctum as they had come under recall. And we became the SSC which included some of the writers with their characters coming over to us.

There came a time when asked by the admins for feedback, we got and acted upon said feed back. Change was required and so the admins spoken on this at length and finally decided to change back to a lightside faction as most of our members are Jedi and other reasons but we were aware that not everyone would like the decision. However they did not have to leave, nor were they asked to. I want to make that clear ..

They left on their own accord.

 

[Connor Harrison]

[member="Arisa Yune"] Connor is in the process of leaving the Order, and not exactly doing it in a nice way! And due to our aim to make this a unique place for Light Siders and Jedi as we see in the movies, he wouldn't be allowed to continue here.

He's said and done things too impossible to cover up and be excused for so, as in the realms of keeping things logical IC, he's had to go.

And in that way I wouldn't have people out there thinking it's one rule for one OOC and another IC. All rules apply to whomever IC, so he's got to pack his little silver suitcase and head out into the wilderness!

 

[Sorel Crieff]

[member="Arisa Yune"]

I was going to say, "The thing is," then realised I was turning into a Monty Python sketch. There are in fact a number of things I wanted to share:

1. It's your character - nobody else's. Yes this is a community and we owe a little bit to all the other writers that we interact with, but you don't need anyone's permission or approval to do what you want (but I suspect you knew this)

2. In terms of how to 'fall?' I'll reflect on point 1. It's your character. You know them best. We only perceive their thoughts, hopes, ambitions and character. And we only know as much of your back-story as you've told us (and even that will be based upon perception). So your reasons for falling? Entirely in your hands.

3. And it's just as valid to fall because it's part of your story arc as it is to go DS because you don't know where to go with your character. I refer back to point 1. It doesn't have to make sense to everyone else - or even anyone else. There is a significant part of Sorel's back-story that no character knows about. Unless you read her bio, you'd not even know as a writer. I could use that one day to justify a fall. But I don't need to. It's my character.

4. Have fun. Don't worry about what anyone else thinks. Get good ideas for hooks that will take her down the DS if you want - or ignore them all and do your own thing. Don't lose sight of having fun!

5. I should stop now

 

[WolfMortum]

[member="Coci Heavenshield"]

Apologies Coci, I was the one to bring up the past out of simple curiosity. Everyone's been cool but I understand the need to speak on it. The intent wasn't to provoke a serious discussion around the change or history, simply a clarification for my benefit.

I think everyone's cool But I suppose I did take away from the original intent of the thread...

*Slowly steps back into the darkest corner of the room*

"I was never here"