Star Wars Roleplay: Chaos

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On G.I.R.L.s

So, a few things to know about me.

I'm a straight guy, married, second kid on the way. I've been writing online, almost exclusively in Star Wars RP, for twelve years, and in that time roughly half the characters I've created have been female. My very first character was male; my second was his sister. I've written aliens, humans, straight men, gay men, straight women, gay women, asexuals of both sexes. I do that because I'm a writer and I've always believed that a writer should be able to understand over fifty percent of the human race to some degree.

I'm not fond of folks who sneer at how other people have fun, but I think, after twelve years, something's worth saying.

There is most definitely a wrong way for guys to write women.

I could go into detail, but you all know exactly what I mean. Heck, based on Rave's story to this point, she should be indifferent or asexual, but I've literally had to play her as defiantly straight more than once because guys writing women kept hitting on her -- sexually harassing her, frankly. And their writers saw it as just fine, because sexual harassment is obviously not a problem if they're wearing a fictional (female, lesbian, that's all there is to the character) mask. Some of my lesbian friends are even uncomfortable RP'ing lesbians at all; they make and write straight characters so they won't get categorized with the folks I'm talking about.

Something else to know about me: Several of my best and oldest friends have been lesbian, some comfortable with their orientation, some less comfortable. Many of them deeply offended by this particular aspect of internet RP. Please don't go 'oh, Jon's friends with RP'er X, so he must be speaking for her' - trust me, I've got friends everywhere, including IRL friends who RP online in fandoms that bore the crap out of me. I'm not saying I speak for them either; I've seen what happens to the world when white guys try to speak for women. But I am saying, as a husband, father, brother and son, I'm often offended for them.

"But Jon! You write a lesbian love story!" Yeah, my longest-running current characters are female. My little sister created Ashin in 2002, and I took over the character when she lost interest; I created Rave as a very young supporting character in 2003. One's married to a woman, one's straight. That's just the way their stories turned out -- well, no, that's not quite true. I wrote Ashin as straight until a couple of years ago, when I really started getting fed up with this particular part of internet culture -- guys who primarily write shallow promiscuous lesbians for prurient reasons and attention. At that point, me and Spencer decided that our (straight) characters' stories had gone in a direction that we could write a respectful, realistic story about a genuine same-sex relationship, both as an example and as a condemnation (and doesn't every example feel like a condemnation to someone?) because we were both a little fed up, and I doubt she'd mind me saying that. That was a deliberate choice. Maybe it's worked, maybe it hasn't, maybe this is just me trying to stake out moral high ground to reinforce the point and make myself feel good, whatever.

So what's the point of me saying all this? Well, it's about respect, and understanding when selfishness makes other people uncomfortable, even when, yeah, it's a game and it's fiction.

One final thought, if any of the folks to which this applies have actual aspirations as a writer. As the novelist L.M. Montgomery once said, a writer must have a sacred respect for the truth.
 
Evasion Studios
Rave Merrill said:
trust me, I've got friends everywhere

Not to intentionally throw your discussion off track - but this phrase makes me believe even more that you may be more dangerous than people know. :)
 
[member="Rave Merrill"] I wanted to say thank you - so very much for posting this. I've written several places as well as here, and over the years, there have been several occasions where people have wanted to write...situations with my character with which I felt very uncomfortable. I'm not sure if it was due to my personality as a writer, or the personality I have given Anija. I have noticed it to be most prevalent with her, however. I just wanted to say a big THANK YOU for posting this, and giving a voice to what many of us who ARE female behind our characters have been... reluctant to say. **hugs*

[member="Evad"] I have friends all over the place, as well :p
 
I'd like to add this whole issue isn't exactly limited to just the niche of "Dudes writing Lezbos badly." It's mostly an issue of somebody wanting to live out a fantasy / self-insert as hard as possible, resulting in ignoring actually writing a good / compelling story in favor of getting laid in a fantasy world. And not played in a comedic fashion either, ala Johnny Bravo, or seriously playing someone who is a womanizer / James Bond type of deal.

Can happen at the hands of both genders, regardless of sexual orientation, both In Character or Out of Character. It would be, in my opinion at least, easier to bring attention to someones bad writing form to get them to realize they stopped playing a character, and instead are just self-inserting to nab a quick shag, rather than just say "Stop hitting on me."
 
That's why I tend to, for anything serious, get to know the person out of character as well, so I know what they care to write about... And why I tend to make my characters have a dead wife they mourn- no worry about people coming on to me! Yep... guys-playing-fems will hit on guy characters, and be as sleezy as the creep-guy in the bar about it. And it's annoying. More than I think they realize.

I implore those who play a female to play more than stereotypes, and to realize what they are doing when they play the less than moral types. You're projecting, as a representative of your gender, your thoughts and your opinions of another gender in broad-wave form. And sometimes, it is really embarrassing to watch. Same goes, by the way, for females who play guys. There are just as many problems there.

Yes, as a writer you should be able to write any of the many genders or orientations out there. But if, like me, your portrayal is just not convincing or effective? It's less shameful to realize that and NOT persist in ignorant pigeon holing or generalizations than to persist in something you're honestly just not well suited to. Or, the even bigger option if you realize it? Ask for help and advice. No gender should be portrayed by their stereotypes. Nor should any orientation be played thusly.

And just because you're a guy, or girl, and play the opposite gender as homosexual does not always give you the out either. Coming from someone deeply connected to the queer-trans community via several dear friends, it's not exactly flattering the way it's done. At all.
 

Popo

I'm Sexy and I Know It
Right, two bits time.

I'm a male writer, first off. As a writer you wanna learn how to write various aspects and viewpoints through writing. I write mainly male alts, but I do write a few female characters and one hermaphrodite.

Yeah, sleezy lesbian/straight/gay can be done and I've seen it done well in the past. However, I see A LOT of the badly written ones. So much so that the writers who are doing it right are lumped in.

Now, that's not me saying 'let certain folks do the sleezinees', that's me saying 'cut it the mark out'. If it fits with the character, then it does, but most of the ones I see are cookie cutter, 2d characters that I'm pretty sure are only there for someone to float their boat. Honestly, there are many threads with these characters that really should have a disclaimer and are borderline nsfw. Me, personally, when I hit that stuff in an rp, I quietly write myself out.

As for relationships, only one out of maybe twenty alts are in one and that's Betna, Anija's husband. I've always intended for him to be a family man and after 2+ years of trying to write that, I'm now able to. It is all about how you do it. The more meaningful the attempt and the story, the more it turns into something folks want to read rather than badly-written-character #1 hitting on badly I written a character #2 like a working girl from [insert south american country here]

Tl;Dr: have respect for your other writers and for yourself. Writing like an idiot will only alienate you through your own actions.
 
Nicely written. Now I'm obviously speaking as someone whose main char, Siobhan Kerrigan, has been for the most part been consistently written as promiscuous and tremendously oversexed (and apparently operating under the thoroughly wrong belief that she's irrestible). It's a part of her personality, though there's more than that to her. As has been said, sexuality is not a personality, otherwise you're not writing a full person, just a stereotype and living out a wish fulfillment fantasy.


At the same time she is in a committed relationship with [member="Tegaea Alcori"]. There was no deliberate plan for that, they just had IC history from the board they used to be on and so when they clicked on this one after Sio got recruited into the Pyre, Tegaea's writer and I gave it a try, in other words let things develop organically. Truth be told, them marrying several IC years after being on and off lovers took me by surprise. Their relationship has had its share of bumps, conflicts, arguments, but then constant shiny and happy is not just unrealistic, but plain dull.


One big point of tension has always been Sio's desire go out fighting and adventuring, while Tegaea understandably does not want her to charge into an early grave (Sio is semi-retired now after Firemane purged Gehenna). Along with Siobhan dabbling in the dark side and frankly being just a bit nuts, though her wifey is a, how shall I put it, restraining influence. Oh, and Sio sort of has an adopted daughter now...the thread where they met was very heartwarming, since I'd never imagined her as being even remotely maternal. She's still promiscuous and oversexed, but then she's part of a decadent aristocracy and more than once her lack of judgement has come to bite her in the butt, what with a certain Kaelin Isandros exploiting it.


Kaida and Moira have been deliberately written as opposites to Siobhan. Kaida's a pure professional and frankly a workaholic. I guess she's lesbian or bisexual, but it's simply not important. Sio's the sort of decadent aristo she can't stand, which is ironic since Siobhan came from the gutter (and Sio's massive egotism gets deconstructed when I write her so many times). As for Moira, she's an assassin droid with no interest in 'organic reproductive rituals'.
 

Orron Thrask

More Man than Machine
It's funny because I was sort of wondering the same thing about this when it comes to girls writting guy characters; which is the case with me. I mean yeah I have a girl character now, and yes she's bisexual but more towards girls, but at the same time I know what a REAL person with that kind of orientation would act. But I've had friends who've made guy characters and they always make them too macho or too "geeky funny" to where they end up being kind of like archtypes of themselves. Hell I had one friend who made all her guy characters trannies; which was odd, yes, but they were in anime form so it was really hard to tell lol. I do agree that when it comes to writing characters of a different gender than your own, you can't just make the character based on a sexual orientation or their kinks, you have to give them actual character. Don't strictly think about what sort of sex they prefer, actually go into their life and wonder what they would do on a normal day around the house; or in the case of THIS site, what they would do wherever they live lol. I like to think that I do everything I can to make characters into actual characters and not just reasons for having sex scenes or playing out fantasies.
 
All the gratitudes for calling this problem out. That's something I had in mind with my own female characters, especially Jeela since she was the first one I had on here. Fortunately, there wasn't much issue. So far, anyways. I think she might be rather intimidating.
 

Corey's OOC

And where were the spiders
I think that's the hardest thing for me, as a writer, is making sure I'm /not/ fanservicing. I have two-to-three female alts, that I try to branch out in, Token being pan-sexual, Peyton being asexual and Jenn being straight. But you have to have fun with it, while respecting the people who identify with one group over another.

The reason we're here is to write fun, yet believable characters. So i always take a step back on mine, to make sure I'm not being too... bizarre (? maybe the word I'm looking for) with my alts.
 
[member="Natasi Fortan"]


Natasi Fortan said:
This thread is beginning to read like a compilation of fifteen year old girls' tumblrs.
Can I start calling you bigoted and ignorant for not approving of my panfluid-animesexual-kawaiiguurl-gendertribinary lifestyle yet, and for refusing, and using your role play privileges to stop, me from humping your leg then?
 
skin, bone, and arrogance
Agatha Nestor said:
[member="Natasi Fortan"]



Can I start calling you bigoted and ignorant for not approving of my panfluid-animesexual-kawaiiguurl-gendertribinary lifestyle yet, and for refusing, and using your role play privileges to stop, me from humping your leg then?
Yes.
 

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