Species that are 'Immune' to Mental Intrusion

[Fatty]

So, I was looking at some stuff today about the nature of the mind and the external world, a whole lot of philosophical stuff, and I had a Chaos window open where I'm dueling [member="Darth Vornskr"] vs [member="Darth Voracitos"].

His latest attack included a mental assault, and I put two and two together, and started to wonder... what makes an Epicanthix immune to mental assault? What builds the resistance of a particular person or species has to influence of the force when it comes to their thoughts? If the force is capable of altering the make-up and physical properties of objects even against the prospect of conventional physics through the use of 'space magic' (I'm looking at you Art of the Small, and Sith Alchemy), why is the mind so fortified against the force? What is the force even INFLUENCING in the mind to do as one pleases when it does work on someone?

Is it interacting with the mind physically, or does it interact with some binding aspect of the force present in all beings that confirms the existence of force-insensitive souls in the star wars universe?

Why couldn't someone 'mind trick' an Epicanthix or a Hutt by altering the flow of electrons and other brain chemistry components to force them into thinking thoughts you want them to?

 

[Corey's OOC]

It could be the way the brain's wavelengths work? They think in a different fashion than other species?

Or one is a slug and the other is just a nuisance.

 

[Malok]

Lucas Handwavium.

 

[Jsc]

1. Handwavium - "Space Magickkk"
2. Game Design - Video Game Mechanics
3. Because another genre has it - "Because reasons"
4. Writer thought it was a good idea at the time - Because Karen Traviss says so

I know you're probably looking for something to do with science or midiclorians. But there really ain't a good reason anything happens in Star Wars. Sorry dude.

 

[Ellie Mors]

So, I was looking at some stuff today about the nature of the mind and the external world, a whole lot of philosophical stuff, and I had a Chaos window open where I'm dueling [member="Darth Vornskr"] vs [member="Darth Voracitos"].

His latest attack included a mental assault, and I put two and two together, and started to wonder... what makes an Epicanthix immune to mental assault? What builds the resistance of a particular person or species has to influence of the force when it comes to their thoughts? If the force is capable of altering the make-up and physical properties of objects even against the prospect of conventional physics through the use of 'space magic' (I'm looking at you Art of the Small, and Sith Alchemy), why is the mind so fortified against the force? What is the force even INFLUENCING in the mind to do as one pleases when it does work on someone?

Is it interacting with the mind physically, or does it interact with some binding aspect of the force present in all beings that confirms the existence of force-insensitive souls in the star wars universe?

Why couldn't someone 'mind trick' an Epicanthix or a Hutt by altering the flow of electrons and other brain chemistry components to force them into thinking thoughts you want them to?

Well, the way it was described in Episode I and some books, it was that the Hutt, Toydarian, and Epicanthix' minds are so complex that trying to break into one would be akin to trying to persuade someone without using the force to begin with.

 

[Ellie Mors]

Basically the composition of the mind that in some way makes it impossible.

 

[Rusty]

There are precedents outside of the occasional Lucas Handwavium. In I, Jedi, for instance, Corran Horn has difficulty influencing the minds of nonhumans because they process thought differently. Their frame of reference for the world makes them more difficult to manipulate, and the more alien the mind, the more difficult it is to influence.

I've always written Shards as being largely immune to mental influence because their minds, rather than being contained in an organic brain, are contained within a silicon-based crystal. Most organic beings simply don't have the frame of reference necessary to manipulate them.

 

[Nyxie]

In short, the midichlorians "protect" the mind in sort of the same way they prevent one's head from being popped like a blister.

It's not totally handwavium, it just attests to the very vague, almost metaphysical nature of that which powers the Force. I'd argue this point because it is vaguely evident that even if one learned an understanding of the complexities of their minds (and Epicanthix in particular, being near-humans, probably aren't all that different) it would not make much of a difference, as it would have then been done already. Force users can use the Force to translate entire foreign languages, some with complexities they could never use themselves. If it were due to the nuances or complexities of their minds, it would be a similar case but is not, so it must not be due to that.

Also largely because it wouldn't have been fun to watch if the Jedi could just mentally persuade Jabba.

 

[Fatty]

[member="Jay Scott Clark"] Hell no, I hate the idea of midichlorians. I was just trying to figure out unorthodox ways to loop around immunities by applying a little bit of logic to a situation that is entirely non-logical.

[member="Corey's OOC"], [member="Lily Kirsche Kuhn"], [member="Rusty"], that all makes sense to me, it would be rather difficult to make a creature to have a thought you crafted, without knowing what constitutes as a knowable thought to an alien of extreme difference to your own species. Though I still think this can't be infallible. If you don't understand how a creature thinks, why not just drain them of their knowledge first (dark side), and then impose your will?

 

[Rusty]

In my case, because I'd shoot you first.

But largely, it's the same problem. Imagine two computers using different programming languages trying to talk to one another. You can still send data from one to the other, but that's not the same as being able to understand it. Now if you took the time to learn the programming language involved, you might be able to make more sense of it.

 

[Jsc]

I was just trying to figure out unorthodox ways to loop around immunities

Ah. Well you'll figure something out. Bullet to the brain works great too. They hate that kind of mental assault. Gets em' every time.

 

[Darth Carnifex]

Sometimes I don't even fully understand it at times.

But that's what happens when you have a species that can resist even the strongest of mental influences with a bare bones explanation.

[member="Fatty"]

 

[Evad]

[member="Fatty"]

Outside of our beloved Star Wars, one of my other favorite genres is the Superhero or comicbook genre with powered people. During the pilot episode of the series "Alphas" (of which is available on Netflix and is a MUST SEE) - the lead psychiatrist for the team describes what happens when one of the characters 'pushes' another to influence their thoughts, and make them comply. A small micro-lesion on the brain occurs, and for one of the heroes, it's a temporary thing that fades and atrophies within minutes, while one of the bad guys with a similar ability causes one that stays there for quite a while, and can be re-triggered. Going off of a concept like that, perhaps the brains of these force resistant species have some kind of automated defense mechanism against such an occurrence and immediately defend against it.

Within the scope of star wars, as Obi-wan stated in EPIV, that the weak minded are the ones that can be mind-tricked or influenced. Perhaps he didn't mean will alone, but rather the strength of the intellect. Hutts are known to be very big in the brain department, and I can't say much for Toydarians, but if they're shrewd enough to stay in business in a place like Tatooine, than maybe.

 

[Jairus Starvald]

Easy.

The Midichlorians do it.

It's described in Plagueis' book that the Midichlorians simply do not allow that kind of influence in an orthodox way, but through experimentation Plagueis managed to bend them to his will and break through the mental defenses anyway. So... no species is immune to mental intrusion, it's just that some species are much harder to break through.

But be experienced enough and have an opponent that ain't powergaming too hard? And you can pull it off.

[member="Fatty"]

 

[Ellie Mors]

As far as I am aware, it was impossible for mental specialists that practiced mind-dominating dark side force abilities and were expressly focused on such to influence their minds, I don't think it is a matter of being able to think the same as another (otherwise it would be relatively impossible to influence an Ewok). It is simply that their brain composition & complexity ranks at the top (meaning their intellectual capabilities are theoretically more capable) while humans rank somewhere near the middle. If it were a matter of difference in mental processes, an Epicanthix would be able to influence another.

 

[Sarge Potteiger]

Sometimes I don't even fully understand it at times.

But that's what happens when you have a species that can resist even the strongest of mental influences with a bare bones explanation.

[member="Fatty"]

It's Star Wars. The only explanation you get is that this is how it is.

Good enough for me.

 

[Selena Halcyon]

I wouldn't try and over think something that is likely not all that thought out to begin with.

 

[Fabula Caromed]

Because Karen Traviss says so

Also the clone soldier population during the Clone Wars was barely two million, which is a grand total of about 1.6 clones per Republic world.

#travisslogic

 

[Aithne Charr]

[member="Fatty"]

Honestly Fatty, a Simple answer.

Evolution.

This is going to take some explaining but come with me on this one.

Lets take several other races first, we have Miralukan who developed without eyes and learned to see not with sonar like other animals might in such a situation, something akin to what i will for simplistic reasons call Daredevil power. No, through (Yes, i know Star Wars force magic stuff too) evolution and adaptation they developed an even greater symbiotic bond with the Midiclorians in their body.

Now, lets take a look at Vahla, a Race for which holds not bone as their skeleton, but cartilage. Again, biologically we have what at one time might have been no more human than the person behind the keyboard that you and I are. But Evolution through Star Wars means has allowed for us to be given a uniquely interesting train of thought. What if we develop such a mutation down the road through evolution.

Now, what i want to explain is a natural empathy that you and I have in real life. Of course this is not the same kind that we have in star wars, be it a genetic or force based Empathy. By Empathy i mean you and my ability to understand other human beings through facial expressions, audio ques, even how they just carry themselves. And when you are close to people those and even their thoughts seem to be... easier to read. Think of an Epicanthix as a species that evolved in order to better hide those ques. That base empathy that all human beings understand and it would make some sense. If the Epicanthix's brain developed in such a way that its ability to process though is on such a different level as ours it would be like being dropped into a foreign country and trying to talk to someone there. It would be impossible.

Now yes, it could just be a plot device made up by a author. Hell it probably was. But my point is there remains a biological possibility that could explain why the Epicanthix are not susceptible to a mental intrusion. As our favorite Toydarian once said. "Only money can influence a Toydarian." It makes for a good story and it while not the most indepth answer let me ask you something. Would you rather have that mystery behind why, or would you rather have everything explained like Midicholorians. I for one do not mind the whole idea of a Midichlorians. Keep in mind i do not say they are necessary, but i think they are a nice addition... ask yourself. Do you think an answer for everything is necessary, or simply a nice addition that might/probably will annoy others?

 

[Arumi Zy]

Well @Fatty take real world science, grab a book of spells, beat said science with that book of spells, throw in a large pot with just a hint of naivity and a sprinkly of optimism. Simmer at 900 midiclhorions for 50 hours, drink copious amounts of inebrients and poof you have it. The mystical formula for star wars.