SS4-Rifle

[Krayzen Dratos]

Image Source:

Image Source[Credit to the people who created this image]
Intent: To help the OSI get some weapons; most importantly though, this is my first weapon submission, and I want to test out an idea I have. I also want to see if I’m correct in some parts (that’s why I have stated “?” in the submission. Hopefully, I’m not off to a bad start.
Development Thread: dev thread
Manufacturer: Drakos Systems(With Os backing)
Model: SS4-Rfile
Affiliation: Open Market
Modularity: It can use a variety of rounds; the grenade launcher can also be swapped in for something else (?)
Production: Limited
Material: Durasteel, Dallorian Alloy(to help the weapon doesn’t overheat easily)
Classification: Slugthrower/Sonic Rifle
Size: Rifle
Length: 80 cm
Weight: 3.0 kg
Ammunition Type: Slugs, and a variety of rounds
Ammunition Capacity: 100 shots
Effective Range: 350m
Rate of Fire: Semi-Automatic; Two Round Burst.
Special Features: -Weapon can be fired silently
-Is extremely fast
-600 muzzle velocity
-Features an underbarrel grenade.
-Can be integrated with the HUD of armor
-Projectiles can be able to punch some of the strongest armor depending on the round; moreover, it requires a few rounds for it to be able to it to punch through heavy metals (depending on the metal of course)
-Variety of ways to combat opponents
-Dampeners and mitigation systems help with the recoil, and therefore the accuracy.
-Magnetic acceleration system helps make sure the round doesn’t overheat (?)
-Cooling system also makes the round not overheat

Description:

With a civil war looming in the Sith Order, various major, and minor wars occurring, and new factions rising, technological development for weapons has never been better; new companies are tapping into the growing market, wanting to increase their hold of the market, as well as get more funds; as one would expect, Drakos Systems is one of those companies.

They went to the drawing board, and began looking for a weapon that would be useful against force-sensitives. Knowing full well that force-sensitives are the hardest people to kill, the designers began looking at a new weapon that would feature the hybridization of two popular force sensitive killers, a sonic pistol, and the much more famous verpine shatter gun; soon, a hybrid weapon was created.

Like its ancestor, the verpine shatter gun/rifle, magnetic accelerator coils are used to generate the speed of the projectile, while maintaining its most notable and arguably greatest feature, the fact that the coils make the weapon not produce any sound while firing the projectile. While the projectile is being fired, it enters into a containment chamber (which compresses the sound), and creates a cloud around the projectile. The magnetic accelerator coils shape the cloud, however they downgrade the slug's muzzle velocity to that 600m/s

As expected, when it heats opponents, regardless of their weight or size, the slug will punch through the opponent using its speed; moreover, per the damage capabilities of sonic bolts, the sonic bolt will disorienate you, and rupture your organs, and if you are wearing metal, it would compress the metal, reducing its resistance against various weapons.

Thanks to the incredible versatility of verpine shatter guns/rifle, the weapon can fire practically only 10MM slugs and 20MM slugs, to AP and White Phosphorous rounds.Ultimately, this weapon is versatile, and powerful, and it is perfect for force sensitive hunters.

Weaknesses:
Recoil is somewhat powerful despite usage of dampeners
Limited ammo which is odd for a descendant of the verpine shatter gun

Strengths:
Backs a punch
Extremely fast
Features an underbarrel grenade.

 

[Gir Quee]

RESEARCH REVIEW
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Star Wars Canon:
Pending initial review
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Starwars Chaos:
Pending initial review
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WITHOUT DEV THREADS
Pending initial review
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WITH DEV THREADS
Pending Initial review
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SUGGESTIONS
Pending Inital review

 

[Gir Quee]

[member="Krayzen Dratos"], sounds like you've put some thought into this, and that's good. I don't quite follow how the sonic & slugthrower rifle concepts are intertwined though. Could you explain to that me in a little more depth?

Manufacturer: Drakos Systems

Can you hyperlink "Drakos Systems" to the company's formal approval entry?

Length: 1 cm(?)
Weight: 2.5 kg(?)

For Length, I'd suggest something around 1 meter (give or take a few tenths of a meter) for the weapon based on the picture.
Weight seems a little low to me, but it's possibly doable. For reference, an average assault rifle weights between 3 - 4 kg.

Like its ancestor, the verpine shatter gun/rifle, magnetic accelerator coils are used to generate the speed of the projectile, while maintaining its most notable and arguably greatest feature, the fact that the coils make the weapon not produce any sound while firing the projectile. While the projectile is being fired, it enters into a containment chamber (which compresses the sound), and creates a cloud around the projectile. The magnetic accelerator coils shape the cloud, however they downgrade the slug's muzzle velocity to that 600m/s(?)

It's certainly possible to create an almost silent firing weapon.

The biggest problem occurs when the projectile leaves the barrel.

If you can picture a bullet travelling through water, think of the wave or wake that you would see trailing behind the bullet. When a bullet travels through, this "shock" wave still exists even if it's invisible. If the bullet is travelling at supersonic velocities (about 342 meters per second), this wave is loud enough that the "shock" wave existing outside of the projected bubble will be easily heard.

I think the easiest way around this is to use a subsonic bullet, which follows your idea of using reduced muzzle velocity. Because the bullet travels slower, there is much less of a sound report, though it will not likely be completely silent.

As expected, when it heats opponents, regardless of their weight or size, the slug will punch through the opponent using its speed; moreoever, per the damage capabilities of sonic bolts, the sonic bolt will disorienate you, and rupture your organs, and if you are wearing metal, it would compress the metal, reducing its resistance against various weapons.

As far as I know, and I could be wrong on this, sonic bolts come almost exclusively from sonic blasters. There is a similar effect with concussion rifles. Do you have any reference for slugthrowers creating this effect?

Thansk to the incredible versatility of verpine shatter guns/rifle, the weapon can fire practically almost any projectile such as from 10MM slugs and 20MM slugs, to AP and White Phosphorous rounds(this aren't all the rounds that the weapon can use; I'm just thinking of the ones at the top of my head). Just like in any verpine shatter gun/rifle though, depending on the case, the projectile can always not be as accurate as one would think.

While we don't need to have a particular caliber associated with this weapon, 20mm is probably going to be excessive unless is has a very short length. The main reason is because the more mass the bullet has, the more recoil the weapon will have. I'd recommend describing this bullet size in relatively general terms, such as comparable to an assault rifle round, sniper rifle round, etc. You can even reference the dismensions of a real life bullet or cartridge if you want to label exact dimensions.

While slugthrowers do have a bit of modularity with their ammunition by their nature, I'd be careful with using speciality ammunition in them. As a personal opinion, I'd suggest replacing the White Phosporous rounds with either generic incendiary rounds or something like explosive-tipped rounds.

In order to make sure that the opponent is truly finished, a grenade projector is at the weapon's underside, and it can fire Heat-DP, Smoke, Fragmentation, and White Phosphorous grenades. It can hold a 40x70 mm gyrojet grenade; when it is fired, it goes on a flat path by at least 400 m (?) toward the target.

I'd recommend using a Viper 2 Grenade Launcher for this. Otherwise, I'd suggest that you make a separate submission for the under-barrel grenade launcher.

 

[Krayzen Dratos]

[member="Gir Quee"]

Thanks for being very nonchalant about this; I was worried this weapon would be archived since I was creating a sonic/slugthrower rifle.
1) I hyperlinked Drakos System, as well as changed the length from 1 cm to 80 cm, and the weight from 2.5 kg to 3 kg.

2) In terms of the third quote in which you addressed how the weapon works, I used a ripper weapon –although unknowingly- as the basis for what I was creating. From what I was told, a ripper weapon is a slug that uses a blaster containment field. I was trying to use that feature for a slug/sonic hybrid, in which I practically do the same thing. I wasn’t sure that a sonic blaster has a containment field, until I read about the Geonosian sonic blaster. I then asked people to look over it, including someone that has submitted a lot of weapon submissions, and I was told that theoretically, what I am doing could work.

3) Like I stated before, this is a slugthrower/sonic hybrid, so while slugs don’t have the ability to do this, sonic bolts can, as you stated before, do this, and a sonic cloud surrounds(kinda envelops the round in a metaphorical sense), so I am assuming that the round as a whole would create a similar effect.

4) What is the max grenade size the grenade launcher you linked can have; it doesn’t show in the link. Also, would the grenade launcher fire the grenade in a flat path?

5) Can you still use the WP rounds if you want to? Also, I'm not sure about adding a specific caliber size, mostly because I think it goes away from one of the main points this weapon was created, which was because of its versatility? Any thoughts?

 

[Gir Quee]

[member="Krayzen Dratos"], it's all good. I'm here to help you hammer this out into something that you like and that the community can get behind.

2) In terms of the third quote in which you addressed how the weapon works, I used a ripper weapon –although unknowingly- as the basis for what I was creating. From what I was told, a ripper weapon is a slug that uses a blaster containment field.

If you have a source for that, I'd be interested in seeing that. I have a certain fondness for the Mandalorian Ripper myself, but I haven't been able to find a lot of information on it. I've seen speculation that it might work on . That's not to naysay the idea however, because [url=http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Bowcaster]bowcasters quite explicitly state that they fire magnetic quarrels encased by plasma energy by using magnetic acceleration.

I was trying to use that feature for a slug/sonic hybrid, in which I practically do the same thing. I wasn’t sure that a sonic blaster has a containment field, until I read about the Geonosian sonic blaster. I then asked people to look over it, including someone that has submitted a lot of weapon submissions, and I was told that theoretically, what I am doing could work.

So essentially then, the SS4 has a slug, encases it in the compressed sonic energy, and then accelerates it with a magnetic accelerator? This does look doable, but I'm going to ask for a 10 post development thread to go with it. Ideally, I'd like to see this thread incorporate some testing and/or explaining the concept.

4) What is the max grenade size the grenade launcher you linked can have; it doesn’t show in the link. Also, would the grenade launcher fire the grenade in a flat path?

The source material for the Viper 2 doesn't explicitly talk about either of those. I actually don't know of any Star Wars canon grenade launchers that get into the specifics of caliber and ballistics. I can talk to you about those things from real life examples though, if you'd like.

5) Can you still use the WP rounds if you want to? Also, I'm not sure about adding a specific caliber size, mostly because I think it goes away from one of the main points this weapon was created, which was because of its versatility? Any thoughts?

The factory is optional, but it is generally high recommended for anything that might controversial. So technically, you could use WP rounds without a submission, but depending on the effects you want to get out of that ammunition, it might be worthwhile to make a submission for that.

We don't need a particular caliber size for this submission, but we do need a general idea of its power. Listing a caliber is one way to do this, but it can also be more general, such as "equivalent to a standard blaster rifle". This will tie into ammunition capacity for a certain extent as well. The more powerful the attack, the fewer ammunition this thing should probably carry before it needs to be reloaded. Conversely, a high ammunition capacity would acceptable if the individual attacks are weak.

Following that line of thought, my biggest concern with this submission right now is balance.

The concept seems solid, but I'm not really seeing any drawbacks to make up for its current strengths against armor, especially since sonic blaster weapons are noted for being less powerful than blaster equivalents (at least during the times of KOTOR). The Geonosian blaster certainly seems more powerful than earlier weapons, but it also has a shorter effective range compared to most modern blaster weapons. These might be things to consider as you think of ways to make this submission balanced.

 

[Krayzen Dratos]

1) In this post on a heavy Mandalorian ripper, it states” The Heavy Ripper contains two ammo drums. One for the slugs, and a second containing the energy cell required to generate the energy field.” ; evidently, it shows that a ripper weapon an energy field.

2) Okay; it will be the first development thread I’ve done on the site, so it will be interesting for myself to see how stuff works in that area. Additionally, I have a test this week, so depending on the situation, it might take some(but not long) time).

3) Sure, I wouldn’t mind having real life examples to work with.

4) Would a .50 caliber be good enough, or maybe 15 MM. Like I stated before, I don’t know much about weapons, so I’m just looking for something that is powerful/fast/has a good rate of fire(semi-automatic and burst), and has a good ammunition cap rate. I tried to compensate for the power of the weapon with it having a bad range(I thought rifles in SW had 200 m as their “effective range”).

[member="Gir Quee"]

 

[Gir Quee]

1) In this post on a heavy Mandalorian ripper, it states” The Heavy Ripper contains two ammo drums. One for the slugs, and a second containing the energy cell required to generate the energy field.” ; evidently, it shows that a ripper weapon an energy field.

I was thinking canonically, but that is a good reference to know about; thanks.

2) Okay; it will be the first development thread I’ve done on the site, so it will be interesting for myself to see how stuff works in that area. Additionally, I have a test this week, so depending on the situation, it might take some(but not long) time).

It's all good; take as much time as you need.

3) Sure, I wouldn’t mind having real life examples to work with.

To go back to your previous thoughts then, many grenade launchers don't simply shoot out with a relatively flat trajectory, with the possible exception of some Rocket-Propelled Grenades over short ranges. A lot of this has to do with the aerodynamics of a grenade and dealing with the recoil on the other end after firing such a heavy projectile, but a curved trajectory is not necessarily a disadvantage. It allows for indirect fire, meaning that the users can hit things that they cannot necessarily see and allows the weapon to negate Line of Sight cover.

In terms of caliber, 40mm is probably most common in real life, but it can vary anywhere from 25mm to 50mm. There is even more variety if you include rocket-propelled grenades, but those are almost all exclusively single-shot devices.

4) Would a .50 caliber be good enough, or maybe 15 MM. Like I stated before, I don’t know much about weapons, so I’m just looking for something that is powerful/fast/has a good rate of fire(semi-automatic and burst), and has a good ammunition cap rate. I tried to compensate for the power of the weapon with it having a bad range(I thought rifles in SW had 200 m as their “effective range”).

.50 caliber by itself encompasses a lot of different cartridges and properties, so I'd probably narrow it down more. That could mean .50 Action Express (suitable for large-bore pistols), .50 Beowulf (suitable for average rifles), or 0.50 Browning Machine Gun, which is generally what most people think of when someone says ".50 cal". From what you're describing, I think something like 0.50 Beowulf would probably be the best bet. It has a lot of punch for its size, reasonable ammunition capacity (but not great), and a relatively short range. I think that something like 0.50 Action Express would probably be too weak for this weapon, while conversely something like the 0.50 BMG would be too powerful.

Rifle range varies in Star Wars dependent on the weapon involved. Slugthrowers generally have somewhat less of a range compared to real life, but not crippling so. Canon blaster rifles, depending on the model, can have an range of anywhere from 120 to 450 meters, with ranges of 200-300 meters being more common. For whatever reason, sonic blasters don't have particularly good ranges. The Geonosian variant which this weapon seems to be based on has a max range of 45 meters, but it works best at 15 meters, which makes me think it's explicitly designed as a close quarters weapon, much like how a shotgun works in many first person shooters.

 

[Krayzen Dratos]

1) Alright; is it fine if I just state it fires a heavy projectile at a curved trajectory, and grenades range from it being 25 to 50 mm but a 40 mm grenade is the proper grenade to user, or do I still have to submit it? I don’t mind doing either both, albeit I will admit I don’t know anything about grenades.
2) Here is the dev thread; It isn’t even close to being finished, but I just wanted to show you I started working on it.
3) Since this is in a way, primarily a slugthrower rifle, I think the range would be sufficient, although I can reduce the range if you want to 100 m, with an effective range being 80 m? In terms of the caliber size, I’ll go with the .50 Beowoulf. The weapon will still pack a heavy punch anyway. Would a sufficient description be something like this: “while the weapon can use a variety of projectiles, due to it being a direct descendant of the verpine shatter gun, it was designed to be used for a .50 caliber(similar to the Beowoulf)”
4) Thanks for the help!

[member="Gir Quee"]

 

[Gir Quee]

1) Alright; is it fine if I just state it fires a heavy projectile at a curved trajectory, and grenades range from it being 25 to 50 mm but a 40 mm grenade is the proper grenade to user, or do I still have to submit it? I don’t mind doing either both, albeit I will admit I don’t know anything about grenades.

It should be its own separate submission. The advantage of a having a separate submission is that then you can add it on to other future weapons later on, or sell it as an aftermarket product to other people to use on their own guns. There are several factory judges here who can help you make your grenade launcher, so it shouldn't be that much of a problem. I'd start the process by browsing some of these entries

2) Here is the http://starwarsrp.ne...of-protection/' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'>dev thread; It isn’t even close to being finished, but I just wanted to show you I started working on it.

When I click this hyperlink, it takes me to this thread, not the development thread right now. Can you relink me please?

3) Since this is in a way, primarily a slugthrower rifle, I think the range would be sufficient, although I can reduce the range if you want to 100 m, with an effective range being 80 m? In terms of the caliber size, I’ll go with the .50 Beowoulf. The weapon will still pack a heavy punch anyway. Would a sufficient description be something like this: “while the weapon can use a variety of projectiles, due to it being a direct descendant of the verpine shatter gun, it was designed to be used for a .50 caliber(similar to the Beowoulf)”

The ranges you've stated sound good to me.

Generally speaking, I have found that the more vague something is (like the different types of ammunition), the more problematic it becomes in the actual roleplay due to the varying expectations from people's own interpretation of that ambiguity.

In this specific case, not all Verpine Shatter guns were capable of firing such a variety of projectiles. From Wookiee:

2) Custom versions of the weapon also had the ability to fire nearly any kind of small (less than an inch in diameter) projectile, due to a very expensive feature: multicaliber magazine and bore.

I think that the expense of this feature would not make this a mass-production item without adding more development. The other option would be to include this feature, but to lower the production to minor or limited in order to reflect the expense of such a feature.

 

[Krayzen Dratos]

1) Ok; I’ll scrap the grenade launcher for now until I make another one.
2) Here it is: http://starwarsrp.net/topic/79210-a-better-form-of-protection/#entry1167575
3) Yeah; the multi projectile feature the rifle has would be expensive, and that’s why the production cap is listed as limited in the submission since its only for the OSI.

[member="Gir Quee"]

 

[Gir Quee]

[member="Krayzen Dratos"], I've been following your development thread, and it looks good so far: keep it up.

I'm going to be moving this thread to the archives to clean up the forum. When the development thread is done, let myself or one of the factory moderators know, and we'll unarchive it in order to get it approved.

 

[Gir Quee]

Moved to Archives - PM [member="Spencer Jacobs"] for removal / if denied for Second Chance please post and tag Spencer Jacobs for review.

Thank you!

 

[Ellie Mors]

[member="Krayzen Dratos"] [member="Gir Quee"]
Submission retrieved from the archives.

 

[Krayzen Dratos]

• Added dev thread
• Made changes to production.

[member="Gir Quee"]

 

[Gir Quee]

I think that the expense of this feature would not make this a mass-production item without adding more development. The other option would be to include this feature, but to lower the production to minor or limited in order to reflect the expense of such a feature.

3) Yeah; the multi projectile feature the rifle has would be expensive, and that’s why the production cap is listed as limited in the submission since its only for the OSI.

Production: Mass Production

Made changes to production.

Is it mass production? Or is it limited production?

I figured that we'd take a look at the "question marks" in the original post too, and further clarify anything else that might be unclear.

Weight: 3.0 kg(?)

This is good.

-Is extremely fast

This is rate of fire? Or something else?

Weapon can be fired silently

The magnetic accelerator coils shape the cloud, however they downgrade the slug's muzzle velocity to that 600m/s(?)

I recommend this be less than 340 m/s as we discussed above, in order to keep the slug/bolt subsonic, and consequently keep them close to silent in operation.

-Magnetic acceleration system helps make sure the round doesn’t overheat (?) -Cooling system also makes the round not overheat

I'd probably remove these lines. There's likely to be some heat from this method of operation, but given that this technology exists in canon without any notable problems of overheating, it would seem likely to me that Star Wars cooling technology has advanced to the point where this shouldn't be an issue.

Effective Range: 90m

While the normal rifle would have a range of 200 m, the rifle has a maximum range of 100 m(effective range is 80 m)

These don't match, but I'd be fine with either of them.

 

[Krayzen Dratos]

[member="Gir Quee"]

• Increased effective range
• Limited ammunition
• Added underbarrel grenade launcher

1)The bullet would be fast due to magnetic accelerators

2) I changed it to mass production b/c the One Sith backs Drakos System.

3) One of my other stuff was approved, having a way faster speed, and still allowed to maintain the fact that the weapon remains silent. It also pretty much has the same mechanics as this weapon, as exemplifed in the series of quotes. That's why I wanted to increase the muzzle velocity to 1200m/s.

Following the features of its ancestor, the verpine shatter gun/rifle, magnetic accelerator coils have been added in order to generate the speed of the projectile, while maintaining the feature that he coils make the weapon not produce any sound while firing the projectile. While the projectile is being fired, it enters into a containment chamber (which compresses the sound), and creates a cloud around the projectile. The magnetic accelerator coils shape the cloud, however they downgrade the slug's muzzle velocity to that 1200m/s, but it is an impressive speed for the round nonetheless.

-Weapon can be fired silently

 

[Gir Quee]

Effective Range: 350m

Change this back to somewhere between 80 - 90 meters. If you can come up with another weakness, that's fine. However, I will not approve a weapon that does not have a noticeable weakness for all of its strengths.

2) I changed it to mass production b/c the One Sith backs Drakos System.

The backing of a major faction isn't the issue at hand. As per my previous post comments, this will need an additional posts in order to move up from limited to mass because of its inherent power.

3) One of my other stuff was approved, having a way faster speed, and still allowed to maintain the fact that the weapon remains silent. It also pretty much has the same mechanics as this weapon, as exemplified in the series of quotes. That's why I wanted to increase the muzzle velocity to 1200m/s.

All submissions are judged individually. Sometimes it happens that as people, judges miss things in submissions, or that we have different perspectives and backgrounds on hypothetical technologies. We're human.

If you can explain to me how something moving past the speed of sound doesn't make a sonic boom, based on either real science or canon star wars precedent, I'll be fine with it.

 

[Krayzen Dratos]

1) Reduced level of production from mass produced, to limited.

2)Never stated that you aren't human, and I'm aware that no one can't not do mistakes; even then, it was still approved.

One of the things about SW that is seen is it's complete disregard for physics, however that allows people to be creative, and use concepts/combining other concepts that have/haven't been done before, something that I have seen been done in another submission, and I have also done it myself; EU canon has also done it as well. a deck canon being an example.

I will be therefore be requesting a second chance on this item, [member="Gir Quee"].

 

[Gir Quee]

[member="Krayzen Dratos'], I'll be archiving this for the meantime then. Please request a second chance here.

 

[Gir Quee]

Moved to Archives - PM [member="Spencer Jacobs"] for removal / if denied for Second Chance please post and tag Spencer Jacobs for review.

Thank you!