What Are Sith?

[Voices of The Deep]

So yeah, me not being a lore nut when it comes to Star Wars and all has lead me to wondering a few things. I wanted to try my hand in making a baddie, never played a sith or anything before and i was wanting to try it. Thing is as many of the movies i've seen, the games i've played, and the stories i've read there still seems to be a disconnect in my mind.

For those of you who know me, my characters, and how i write then you all may know that i can't just make a villain and then go out and do villainy things without some sense of logic or greater motive. Which is one of the reasons i've veered away from creating a Dark Sided character. And thats mainly just from what i see on the site where...planets get destroyed and kids/parents get killed by guys in black cloaks twirling their mustaches like 'lol, look how awesome i am.'

And not to say there is anything inherently 'wrong' with that, but such things never attracted me into playing a Sith because...thats 'all' i ever saw them doing. I'm sure not ALL of you do such things but with the threads i've read thats commonly what i see a lot of the time.





So, talking to those of you who are really into the lore and such of these factions. Can anyone tell me what the 'Sith' really are? I've read some stuff on the Wiki but i was hoping to get a version told by an...actual human being who has probably written one before lol. Like where does the name 'Darth' come from? How is it given? How are a majority of 'Dark Siders' even born? Stuff like that.


But yeah, thanks to anyone who can help me out in advance.

 

[Teynara Jeralyr]

[member="Scheherazade Roshanara"]

I've actually written a ton of information on this topic, in the Guides section. Allow me:

The Sith - The Basics

The Sith - Character Creation

The Sith - Disciplines and Pathways

The Sith - Archetypes

How to train a Sith

I'll answer some of your specific questions momentarily!

 

[Grrwunhoooll Agaburry]

Sith are Dark Jedi that follow a Religion. [member="Scheherazade Roshanara"] Thats the simplest answer honestly.

Btw not all Dark Jedi are Sith.

Darth i believe comes from the Rakata word Daritha. Idk what it means in full but it is a title earned. The Rakata once ruled Korriban with a Iron fist so their influence their I think would diminish lightly, Or to be corrected a Rakata once ruled Korriban. Sith pure bloods most likely adopted Darth into their culture like many one cultures did.

Dark Jedi came from the jedi! Thats right the filthy rotten Jedi! Their fallen jedi that date back long time. Xendor was believed to be the first Jedi to fall away from the light and be considered Dark Jedi

 

[GhostOfProtocol]

[member="Darth Carnifex"] is your perfect sterotypical Sith. He follows the darkside, eats planets and kills people for fun.
[member="Darth Ignus"] is your less sterotypical Sith. He follows the darkside, but doesn't eat planets or kill for fun.

Dark Jedi follow the darkside, but they are technically not Sith.

[member="Tirdarius"]

Your guides, they're perfect if you're trying to learn the Sith.

[member="Scheherazade Roshanara"]

Darksiders are born like normal people, they get made darkside users via curruption normally.
The Darth title is just something granted at Knight rank, an extra shiny.

 

[Darth Abyss]

There aren't simply the sith. In legends they took on many forms, from orders to empires to fanatic religious sects. One thing all "real" sith have on common is their dedication to the sith code, but besides that many of the dark lords created their own rulesets and laws to go along with it, choosing a different interpretation of the code. Historically (in star wars lol) they began not as a group but as a race, known as sith purebloods that inhibited korriban, and had a natural connection to the dark side. The sith as an order only came into being after a group of dark jedi began to conquer korriban and over time they mixed with the sith, creating what we now know as sith.

To answer your questions: No one really knows where the title darth stems from, many believe its an alteration of a rattaki (or however they are written lol) word. It isn't just simply a symbol of rank but also a challenge to other sith, a claim of power and superiority. That is why many of the more group focused sith groups have a tendency to don't use it. It is either given by a master, or claimed but that is the rarer case. On chaos most people claim it after knighthood but some say it is a title that belongs to the Lords.

Most darksiders are simply born like anyone else and only rarely they are born as natural darksiders (see sith pureblood for example.). The way to darkness is highly individual, some walk it because they had been corrupted by hate and other emotions or some simply chose it. Also darkside =/= sith. The sith are defined by their dedication to the sith code, the use of the darkside is simply a consequence of their valuation of passion.

A sign for a badly written sith is the fact that he knows no other motivation than hate and destruction for the sake of it, most of the good written once have individual goals and desires that align with the path of the sith. I would love to answer any other questions you have, reading about sith lore is something I quite enjoy.

I also direct you to the guide that tidarus wrote in the guides forum, it will certainly answer many if not all of your questions.

[member="Scheherazade Roshanara"]

 

[Teynara Jeralyr]

[member="Scheherazade Roshanara"]

First thing to note: Sith aren't 'evil'. They're pragmatists who understand that evil is sometimes the appropriate pathway to achieve their goals. What if you could save a dozen lives by sacrificing one? Or save a galaxy by destroying a planet? A Jedi would call these acts of evil, a Sith would remark that the greater evil stems from not acting. Some of them become evil by corruption via the Dark Side, or simply because they are selfish, and place themselves above the good of everyone else. A true Sith is a moral being: someone who sees the use of their power as an effective means of establishing order (and therefore peace) throughout the Galaxy. Immoral action on their part comes only to prevent a greater immorality. They do not hold the moral high ground, the way the Jedi do: they see the grey areas and walk them.

The 'Darth' title is one with an odd history. It is a title granted to Masters (the 'Sith Lords/Ladies) among the Order, but is also frequently misappropriated by those who believe they hold claim to it. It is not, as many believe, designed to simply give you status: it is a sacrifice. You push aside your old name, your old life, and dedicate yourself entirely to the path of a Sith. You give up all that you were and place yourself fully at the disposal of the Sith, whether your path is to lead, to fight, to die in their service. That's the idea!

Now, the most important distinction that needs to be made: a Dark Sider isn't a Sith. Most Sith wield the Dark, but they are more than that: they are followers of a path that requires them to work with the darkness, simply because the Dark requires pragmatism and sacrifice. The Light requires complete selflessness, and the ability to let go of yourself: your ego, your desires, your ambitions, your will. Sith refuse to do this, because that their every action requires sacrifice: they do not elevate themselves above pain and suffering, but rather must embrace it. A Jedi seeks to exist outside such things (hence, they become detached). A Sith cannot do this, for doing so removes them from the real world and elevates them beyond the suffering of ordinary beings - removing themselves from such an equation means they do not understand the experience of others, and thus lack empathy (or so the Sith believe).

As for starting out on the Dark Path, there are many ways. Some come as broken things: beings with pain and rage and anger that can be manipulated and turned to the Sith cause. These are the weapons, the beings that can be thrown at those who oppose the Sith, but also beings whose survival is irrelevant in the long-term. More rarely, some choose the Sith path through conscious will: they see it as a means of making a difference, and surrender to it both to gain power and to put that power to productive use. These are the Sith who will learn true emotional self-discipline, and thus will be the co-ordinators rather than the ones who execute the plans. There are many pathways to power, and it's up to the individual - in truth, none that join the Sith remain the same for very long. That's as it should be!

 

[Ellie Mors]

[member="Scheherazade Roshanara"]
We come in many ways and practices. We also have many religious views - and some of us do not have any at all.

The perspective of "Rule of One" (as in Darth Krayt's vision, and the previous One Sith on the board's vision) was that the Sith Order should be structured on obedience rather than conflict and survival of the fittest - following one Dark Lord of the Sith and one single purpose, with that leader embodying the entirety of the Sith Order.

The perspective of "Rule of Two" (Darth Bane's vision) was that there would only ever be two in the Sith Order, the Master (Dark Lord of the Sith) to hold all the power and the Apprentice (Sith Lord) to yearn for it. Each Master (only one at a time would exist in their lifetime) would teach their apprentice everything they knew until the day that their apprentice would finally have learned everything they could and kill their master to replace them, continuing the cycle of Master & Apprentice with only two Sith at any given time for a thousand years. This caused each successive Sith pair to be considerably more able and powerful than the last, with Sidious sometimes regarded as one of the most powerful Sith Lords in history in EU.

The perspective of the Sith Brotherhood thought that there should be no "Darth" titles, no Dark Lords of the Sith, and that everyone should remain equal in stature for fear of infighting - believing they should exist sort of as an anathema to the Jedi Order, acting as their Sith counterpart for a while before Darth Bane destroyed them and formed the Rule of Two. They were the weakest Sith because they taught against conflict, against competition, and because they did not want to acknowledge their roles as Sith beyond the name of their order they also hoarded their knowledge in fear that their apprentices would turn against them if they knew what they knew - and often Sith masters would take several apprentices who would, inevitably, team up and kill them. This caused each successive generation of Sith to become weaker than the last. Ended with Darth Bane and the Thought Bomb on the Battle of Ruusan.

And then there are numerous Sith cults, which are generally extremely exaggerated and bastardized versions of the Sith Code which generally end up deifying the Sith Lords (usually absent in these cults) or otherwise turning their version of the order into a warped derivative of it.

 

[Darth Abyss]

While I wholeheartedly agree with most [member="Tirdarius"] wrote, I want to add that the desire for order isn't something that is basic to a sith. Many play it that way, and many of the legends sith lord behaved that way, but at least in my interpretation it isn't a must for a sith. After all the first line of the sith code is ""peace is a lie". While you can argue about this line a lot, not only because of interpretation but because of the history behind it (as it was invented to oppose the jedi code mainly) I still believe that it can also make a sith desire a state far away from any order at all, and cherishing the chaos for the purest form of the most important sith value: Survival of the fittest. But that actually is a personal decision, a writer has to make to see what individually fits a character.

[member="Scheherazade Roshanara"]

 

[Teynara Jeralyr]

[member="Darth Abyss"]

I can definitely agree that such is not the pathway of all Sith: we train many who exist only to craft chaos and sow destruction. These are those we use as weapons (think Maul, Vader, Bane: the enforcers that are there to craft a reputation and execute the will of the Sith), and many who come to us are used in ways other than to craft the order that is natural to Sith government. Much of that system is built upon strength: peace is a lie, because it does not exist naturally, and even when imposed, it does not truly exist - it is something that others must die for. Those Sith who do not seek to create the peace are nonetheless used to enforce it - it is their role to kill those who oppose the Sith, destroy the obstacles that stand in our path, and serve the Sith as a brutal object lesson: work with us, and you will know order and peace. Oppose us, and you will be ground beneath our boot heels.

 

[Ellie Mors]

Darth i believe comes from the Rakata word Daritha. Idk what it means in full but it is a title earned. The Rakata once ruled Korriban with a Iron fist so their influence their I think would diminish lightly. Sith pure bloods most likely adopted Darth into their culture like many one cultures did.

The Rakata never ruled Sith Space. They were "allies" with the Sith species until they desired to conquer them and King Adas (and his army) repelled them at the cost of his life and a number of others. But they never held Korriban or Ziost or Thule.

 

[Grrwunhoooll Agaburry]

[member="Darth Vitium"] Im using SWTOR lore as well. Referring to Soa, The Infernal One. Though he was seen as a Criminal and acted alone I still count it as a Feat.

 

[Ellie Mors]

And I would like to clarify - while Sith are not inherently evil, and while there are Sith who choose a neutral ground ("the greater good" and all that), there are also those who choose to be evil but do not do so to become the next Darth Vader or even Darth Bane.

Your character identity does not rely on your relation with the Sith Order. My character, Silara, is evil because she has always been evil. She joined the Sith because she had a vision she wanted realized. Evil does not necessarily mean you have to do all the "wrong" things, or be "bad", it generally just means going against the accepted definition of what is the "greater good".

While my vision of an ideal galaxy would be against the better interest of many others, I'm not out to destroy everything, kill everyone, or just outright exist as an enemy of Jedi.

Evil comes in many forms, and generally people think of evil in the way that chaotic evil types operate or lawful evil types operate. Some of us are neither, some of us are there without honor or variation.

 

[Matsu Xiangu]

Evil comes in many forms, and generally people think of evil in the way that chaotic evil types operate or lawful evil types operate. Some of us are neither, some of us are there without honor or variation.

This. I don't have much to add because I find whenever these conversations come up it turns in to a roundabout of "no, Sith are THIS!". I think Vitium has summed up my feelings exactly though. They're whatever you want them to be - they come from many backgrounds, have many motivations, and execute their will in various ways. I love writing Sith specifically because of the versatility. Dark Side love is the tie that binds. The rest is up to you.

 

[Teynara Jeralyr]

Excellent summation, both of you

 

[Darth Abyss]

[member="Tirdarius"] from your guides I know that you are more a rule of one guy than a rule of two guy, and what you said is definitely true for those sith leading or being loyal to an empire/whatever. Yet for those that stood individually I feel like they mainly live for more personal desires.

My favorite examples for that are probably the members of the original sith triumvirate after their fallout. Sion only cared for killing jedi even after everything he stood for was gone and his hate was the only thing keeping him alive. Nihilus only wanted to satisfy his hunger for live force and he had no interest at all for the sith as a organisation and certainly not in order or peace. Kreia is the most extreme example, but its arguable if she was really a sith anymore or just something com outside anything else as she only wanted to destroy the force as whole, but her methods and work ethics were certainly those of a sith.

 

[Grrwunhoooll Agaburry]

The perspective of "Rule of One" (as in Darth Krayt's vision, and the previous One Sith on the board's vision) was that the Sith Order should be structured on obedience rather than conflict and survival of the fittest - following one Dark Lord of the Sith and one single purpose, with that leader embodying the entirety of the Sith Order. The perspective of "Rule of Two" (Darth Bane's vision) was that there would only ever be two in the Sith Order, the Master (Dark Lord of the Sith) to hold all the power and the Apprentice (Sith Lord) to yearn for it. Each Master (only one at a time would exist in their lifetime) would teach their apprentice everything they knew until the day that their apprentice would finally have learned everything they could and kill their master to replace them, continuing the cycle of Master & Apprentice with only two Sith at any given time for a thousand years. This caused each successive Sith pair to be considerably more able and powerful than the last, with Sidious sometimes regarded as one of the most powerful Sith Lords in history in EU.

Dont forget the other Rule of One! Created by Darth Ruin!

"There is no Passion... There is solely Obsession.
There is no knowledge... There is solely Conviction.
There is no purpose... There is solely Will.
There is nothing... Only me."

#BestSithnonsitheva!

Darth Ruins Sith did not follow the norms of Sith Tradition in how the Sith culture or w/e survive. In his view he aimed to be a god and though of himself as one. He was the one to hold and power and that was it. Because he taught his followers the same thing he died a horrible death just like Julius Caesar. He was more Dark Jedi than anything pretending to be Sith. But I count it as a Sith Order in Legends.

Hard to teach a Sith Order that all believe their gods. FUN FACT: Darth Ruin was once noted to be worse than Darth Traya when it came to beliefs and acting on them. Traya was unable to cope with the reality of the Force, Ruin embraced it to a extreme no one could match mentally.

 

[Ellie Mors]

Dont forget the other Rule of One! Created by Darth Ruin!

"There is no Passion... There is solely Obsession.
There is no knowledge... There is solely Conviction.
There is no purpose... There is solely Will.
There is nothing... Only me."

#BestSithnonsitheva!

Darth Ruins Sith did not follow the norms of Sith Tradition in how the Sith culture or w/e survive. In his view he aimed to be a god and though of himself as one. He was the one to hold and power and that was it. Because he taught his followers the same thing he died a horrible death just like Julius Caesar. He was more Dark Jedi than anything pretending to be Sith. But I count it as a Sith Order in Legends.

It's a sith cult.

And then there are numerous Sith cults, which are generally extremely exaggerated and bastardized versions of the Sith Code which generally end up deifying the Sith Lords (usually absent in these cults) or otherwise turning their version of the order into a warped derivative of it.

 

[Grrwunhoooll Agaburry]

[member="Darth Vitium"]​

 

[Kenrath]

[member="Scheherazade Roshanara"]

There are as many tweaked definitions of Sith. I am not going to toss a bunch of new or regurgitated stuff at you.

Traditional to be Sith you are a Dark Side user that follows the Sith Code. Those are the big two and from there can branch out into dozens of different specific paths and ideals.

Use the Dark side but don't follow the Sith Code.............Dark Jedi. Not Sith but can be found among Sith.


And then you have characters like mine, [member="Vengeance"] who well do very bad things but at times are not considered Sith by more mainstream Sith. So just have fun with it.

 

[Teynara Jeralyr]

[member="Darth Abyss"]

I've honestly always been more of a One Sith writer - Bane's Rule of Two was an absurdity, but designed as a practical measure (reflecting Sith pragmatism), designed to fool the Jedi into believing the Sith were gone, and allowing their legacy to preserved in secret. There was much that was wrong with his system, but it worked in the short term. I don't believe, honestly, that it was ever intended as a replacement for the Sith path: only as a stopgap measure, to allow the Sith to remove the one obstacle they had always failed to destroy. When that was 'done', the Rule of Two was put aside, although Palpatine failed to take the next step, and re-establish the Sith in force - his failure was in that he fell victim to his own ego, and sought to rule forever, rather than create an Empire that would exist irrespective of who led it.

Of the three you mentioned, I'd argue that only Kreia was truly Sith: Sion was most definitely a weapon, one that sought only to destroy (and absent the guidance of a more knowledgeable/cunning Sith, he retained that sole desire: to destroy). What Nihilus was before his true corruption, we don't know, but he's the type I'd argue has been wholly seduced by the Dark Side, and has lost any sense of balance. His desire simply to feed is primal, that which remains when all humanity has been stripped from you. In that respect, he held Sith title, but was no Sith at the end. Kreia was, if only because she was a pragmatist that cared not what she was called or how she was perceived: her focus was on the bigger picture, and would do whatever it took to see her vision come to pass.

Like I've said, there are Sith, and then there are tools. Sion and Nihilus fall into that latter category.

[member="Darth Vitium"] is definitely right on the matter of cults: calling yourself does not make you Sith. Lumiya rather excellently observed that Darth Vader himself could never have been a true Lord of the Sith: aside from his many mutilations, he was too caught up in grief and loss to be a true Sith. Palpatine was Sith but lost his way towards the end, becoming too wrapped up in himself to see the bigger picture. This is why she tried to persuade Jacen Solo to take up the mantle: to be a Sith by selflessly sacrificing everything that he was for the good of the Galaxy. That, to my mind, is precisely what a Sith must exemplify.

Those others that call themselves 'Sith' are simply tools of the Sith, or heretics, adopting Sith title and creed without ever truly walking their path. They don't have what it takes to truly be Sith.