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Yammosk vs Vongsense

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Continuing from here...
http://starwarsrp.net/topic/28635-banned-species-list-updated/?p=543751

As per [member="Tefka"], I'm continuing the discussion in a new thread.

Yammosk's were banned as a species (as far as I can tell and as far as Admins will explain) due to an agreed upon unfairness in their ability to coordinate large number of NPC forces and throw 'handwave number' of Vong warbeasts at other writers/characters. While I was disappointed in this because I had a Yammosk character (which I felt I had been roleplaying fairly and appropriately), I could see the reasoning behind the ban and quietly put the character away in compliance with the rules.

Yet from what I am seeing in the recent string of Invasions with the OS is that [member="The Hydra Queen"] is using Vongsense to organize and coordinate massive number of Vong Warbeast, soldiers, exc well beyond what the opposing factions have brought or are capable of bringing. Her actions and the overall role of her character are identical to what a Yammosk would bring to the battlefield, but without the inherent weaknesses and vulnerabilities of being a giant, immobile brain.

I'm not an expert in Vongsense, and from what I can tell the power was never fully explained in Wiki or in any books. The general impression I've gotten is that it allows a Jedi to simply feel the location of the Vong, but maybe it could also allow the Jedi to communicate with them. *shrug* At the end of the day, I have no idea what the power allows and I don't think anyone else truly knows either.

But again, at the end of the day, the overall effect on the battlefield is the same. A character is using a specialized form of telepathy to overwhelm other writers with a swarm of warbeast.

I was going to report the situation officially, but wanted to hear from staff on the mater before jumping to conclusions. And since [member="Tefka"] instructed me to move the conversation over here... *shrug* Sorry. I was wanting to keep it quiet.


Anyway! Yammosks. War coordinators. Handwavium swarm of warbeast.

Fair writing environment?

I'm not sure what else I can say in here or how I can better structure it. I know it sounds like I'm accusing Cira of some junk, but I'm really not. At least not intentionally. She's a nice person and gets wrapped up in the story. If she did something OP, she did it by mistake because she got caught up in the story, not because she was trying to powergame. I know that, you know that, we all know that.

Honestly, I have no idea why Tefka wanted me to start a new thread for this.

@_@
 
I'm not going to answer part of this because I don't know a whole bunch of Vong and other such. (just the basics) but what I can say is that Ted probably wanted it in the open so we as a community could discuss it, and so he would not have to judge it. Others are here for the same job. And that is to help us when we need it. So with that a probable solution....

Converse.
 
Vongsense in the way it is being used is not the same as the empath-mind control that Yammosk utilize to control all vong species. Vongsense is more or less a method to communicate to other Vong, while the Yammosk can control non-sentient and semi-sentient vong life through empathy stuff. It's more or less the degree of severity between the two. Vongsense is like telepathy, Yammosks use a form of persuasion through empathy and telepathy to get things to do what it wants done.
 
Silara Vantai said:
Vongsense in the way it is being used is not the same as the empath-mind control that Yammosk utilize to control all vong species. Vongsense is more or less a method to communicate to other Vong, while the Yammosk can control non-sentient and semi-sentient vong life through empathy stuff. It's more or less the degree of severity between the two. Vongsense is like telepathy, Yammosks use a form of persuasion through empathy and telepathy to get things to do what it wants done.
Kay... Nuances aside, how is the way it's being used in these threads any different from the effects of a Yammosk? You've got one mutant critter using telepathy to coordinate a swarm of monsters. Yammosks were banned to prevent this. Why is it ok for Vongsense to be used to the same effect?
 
Dragons are banned. A sith lord could transfer his soul into an alchemically created vessel, greatly resembling a dragon, and make an amazingly interesting story out of it.
 
The Yammosk literally forces them to act in such a way, the Vongsense does not. To put it simply, a Yammosk trumps the Vongsense in every way, but if a Yuuzhan Vong fights another and both have lower vong species with them, they cannot control the other's, whereas Yammosk could take control of them as well. It's all to avoid the core of godmodding.

Your question is understandable, but it's the actual reason they've been banned that you misunderstood. If Yammosk weren't able to do such things, I'm sure they'd be fine (not that they're much use at all). Your issue and concern with Vongsense is much the same as saying you're against fleeting and using massive amounts of NPCs. The vong species that Vongsense coordinates are NPCs, and as such are fodder to player characters. (Also, [member="The Hydra Queen"] is treated as a deity to the Vong currently, which is why she is followed by them.)
 
Captain Larraq said:
due to an agreed upon unfairness in their ability to coordinate large number of NPC forces and throw 'handwave number' of Vong warbeasts at other writers/characters.
I don't remember this being the reason at all.

Tefka said:
I'll address all species banned, even though people seem to only care about dragons.

1. These were among the most popular choices chosen for banishment by the Factory Judges. I chose to execute their decision.

2. Mnngal-Mnngal is a hive mind and cannot be represented by one person. I view Mnngal-Mnngal like I view Omni: As it can be escalated to almost Celestial-like powers, the classification of the species should be that of a Superweapon and reserved only for Staff-ran or Staff-approved events.

3. Yammosks are War Coordinators and have never truly been depicted as having sentience. Even the wiki says they're only partially sentient. They're tools, used by the Yuuzhan Vong. No more.

4. Dragons. Many of the Factory Judges hold that they're overpowered, played by power gamers, and most of them are classified as either non-sentient or semi-sentient. My personal reason for including them in this very short list? They belong in a Fantasy setting. Not Star Wars. I have no trouble with them being in a Fantasy setting, but they don't give the slightest Star Wars vibe when I see them in threads. The only depiction in canon we have of dragons is the bones of a Krayt dragon. Clearly not a playable character. Merely just a setting piece.

My personal opinion is, we should ban all non-sentient or semi-sentient species from being player characters. But that's not the ruling here. The ruling is Yammosks, Dragons, and Mnngal-Mnngal.

Captain Larraq said:
I know it sounds like I'm accusing Cira of some junk, but I'm really not. At least not intentionally. She's a nice person and gets wrapped up in the story.
This thread seems to be all about your disagreement with the writer Cira.

Captain Larraq said:
Beyond the whole semi-sentient / non-sentient issue, what were the reasons that Yammosks were added to the banned species list?
But this made me think you were trying to get Yammosks unbanned. Given that you necro-posted in the Banned Species Update announcement from June.

Captain Larraq said:
Aaaaaand this brings me to my second point. How is that any different from what The Hydra Queen is doing in the current OS Invasions?
But now I realize this was a planned discussion headed in the direction you wanted it to go.

Captain Larraq said:
I was going to report the situation officially, but wanted to hear from staff on the mater before jumping to conclusions.
....confirmed.

PM the writer and see if you can work things out with her IC. If you can't, then you can report. You'll get Staff's decision on the matter in the report - and not before.

Next time, please be upfront about your intentions.
 
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