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Tweak the focus of the Map Game

Here we go again Turn it up my friend Hooo!

Best Answer Tefka, 23 September 2018 - 02:57 AM

For me, it's important to note that the OP is a Codex Judge. For me, that's where those Codex suggestions are coming from.

 

I'm not empowering the Codex nor the Factory to affect the map game beyond creating new planets.

 

For me, that's bias inherent in the OP.

 

 

 

For ya'll...

 

 

 

I've seen Dominions as just grinds to the 50 post mark.

 

 

There's many posts like this in this thread, this one is just my lazy grab to contextualize my response. I... get it. I don't agree with many of the solutions proposed, but I'll task Staff with seriously contemplating it.

 

Contemplating new stuff is always fun, but not always smart. Again, there is no system simpler, easier to understand, and more rewarding on SWRP at this moment. Dominions have forever been the foundation for Faction role-play, and removing them isn't really an option to me because they're not really the problem.

 

The problem incorrectly placed on the shoulders of doms by the OP is -in my opinion- boring leaders, and a currently boring map.

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#21
Jaron Lesan

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Khonsu Amon

And im speaking to the fact the author wants to replace. Look at what he had in bright green. You’re suggesting a compromise or additional work for site staff which they won’t go for when they’re already thin.

Edited by Jaron Lesan, 22 September 2018 - 02:57 PM.

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#22
Khonsu Amon

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Jaron Lesan - I am suggesting a compromise, because I like seeing both sides and what they have to offer. It wouldn't be fair to a good selection of people to entirely remove the Dominion system, nor is it entirely fun to have it remain as the sole method of map game expansion. 


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#23
Jay Scott Clark

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However, I don't believe they should be the sole way for a faction to expand it's borders on the map.

 

Interesting.

 

First. Lets make sure we understand that Invasions are expansion too. And, they are technically PvP oriented activity. And, that you can have as many of them a month as you want, with seven days notice, (technically max 2 a month with 7 day notice, a 3 day forfeit, and time spent judging. lulz). Well... And as long as there is a hex nearby to invade anyway. Haha.

 

Now lets talk about you Khonsu. You want expansion. You like PvP. You hate musicals. And the current system doesn't tickle your fancies to over 9000. Hmm. So lets get some ideas going. You've mentioned skirmishes. Nice. Ah. And now you've mentioned Campaigns. Interesting. As, a campaign is basically just a faction thread or a dom, minus formatting and post goal right? So... You want less strict rules for doms maybe? How would that work exactly?


Edited by Jay Scott Clark, 22 September 2018 - 03:41 PM.


#24
Khonsu Amon

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Jay Scott Clark - And there's the kicker, lol. Gotta have someone nearby to take their stuff, or else you're forced to subscribe to the current Dominion system. 

 

Technically faction threads could have a post goal(s), or the formatting that'd place them on par with other threads. It all depends on the if the OP wants to use the right prefix or not. So, I see it as being entirely open to interpretation.

 

Ideally, what I'd like to see - is a little bit more utilization of the pre-fixes and allowing them to essentially bleed into the dominion system. While dominion's would still be around for those that like that style of RolePlay - I think having a Campaign/Skirmish/Diplomacy/Etc. thread would be better suited to those that like their immersion, and want to expand in a thematically appropriate way for their respective Major Factions.

 

For example, it kinda irks me when I see a supposedly Lightsided faction "dominion-ing" a world attached to their borders, as there's a moment of "what the..." before the realities of the current Chaos ruleset comes into play. So, if there was a possibility of utilizing the Diplomacy pre-fix outside of "territory swapping" and meetings between factions, I think it'd be the perfect avenue for a faction to pursue diplomatic relations with a system - and fit the faction's narrative/thematic. Your characters are actively working to bring said planet/system/sector into the fold, rather than milling around for fifty posts to collect a Hex when you pass go.

 

 

Before I go further in depth, am I making sense with my ramblings? lol


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#25
Jay Scott Clark

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It all depends on the if the OP wants to use the right prefix or not. So, I see it as being entirely open to interpretation.

 

Kinda.

 

You want to talk about prefixs. So we'll talk about prefixs. First, lets talk about Doms. And yes, to start we'll have to ignore the name as it applies to the contents of the RP. Because a Dom is actually just an *Anything* prefix. Yes. You heard me right. A dom is actually just an *Anything* thread, with a formatted title, and 50ish posts, that gets you territory 3 times a month. The contents of the RP can literally be anything. It can even be a skirmish, a campaign, a diplomacy, or a sexytimes cantina VIP room fade-to-black Ewok hot tube adventure. (Don't ask.) :P

 

So. With that in mind... What I'm hearing is that the Dom prefix offends you. And you want it dead. And that the other tags should replace it. But keep the same rules as doms. Right?



#26
Darth Metus

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Disclaimer: Read OP, skimmed everything else.

This suggestion seems to just place incentive for players to spend time in the Codex instead of roleplaying - and then being rewarded with map expansion.

Because everything else listed as criteria for passive expansion as a faction thread can and has been a Dominion. There have been wargame dominions. Galas. The sky is literally the limit. You can have a speed-dating Dominion and have a darn good time doing it.

As a community we have become hung up on the Dominion label and take it literally. We think we have to literally dominate a planet through excessive good-guyness or excessive bad guy-ness. But in reality, any story that makes a lick of sense works. You don't need to shake up the rules to expand - just write what you want to and put the purple label on.

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#27
Khonsu Amon

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Jay Scott Clark - I'm not offended with the prefixes, especially the dominion one. I honestly think they're being under utilized. I also understand that dominion's are basically a catch-all thread; if I didn't - then the earlier posts regarding musical or tea party-themed dominion's pretty much ensures that point is a fact. 

 

I'd rather see the dominion system changed to allow for those under-utilized prefixes to fall under it's umbrella. So, you could do a diplomacy thread with a neutral/unclaimed hex and bring it into the fold. You could skirmish another faction for control over a neutral/unclaimed hex between your respective faction borders. You could launch a campaign to take a sector, and have a myriad of "spin-off" faction threads that could count towards the overall story and claim. 

 

The only thing that I don't like about dominions is their almost self-contained nature, hence why I've been saying they're almost episodic. There's a possibility for them to be combined in a rolling faction narrative that tells an overall story after X amount of threads have transpired... but in the end? I seem them as episodes of the simpsons. You have little callbacks to what's happened before, but ultimately - everything resets when the show ends and starts anew.


Edited by Khonsu Amon, 22 September 2018 - 04:05 PM.

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#28
Adder Dawnracer

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I actually like this idea a lot.


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#29
Jay Scott Clark

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I'd rather see the dominion system changed to allow for those under-utilized prefixes to fall under it's umbrella.

 

Got cha.

 

Okay. So lets talk about why now. Why the dom system works the way it does. First, formatting in the title. It's a rule and it's used as an expression of intent towards your competition. We are strict about dom titles so that everybody has a chance to compete with your faction over that planet. Speed doms used to be a thing. Two factions attempting to Dom a planet at the same time. And, this must still be considered in any update you suggest to the Map Game, Khonsu. In this way, doms are the system you are proposing, (more prefixs,) but simpler. Easier to see. Easier to compete with. And since a dom can be *Anything*, then it doesn't lose any context either. Thus making our current status quo the win-win. The simpler, easier, loss-less system.

 

Feel me? :P



#30
Khonsu Amon

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Jay Scott Clark - I feel you, but I also don't agree with you. 

 

In the past month, there's been little competitive drive between Factions - when previously - we'd see factions "speed dom" the heck outta territory to force other Faction's into invading them. As I've stated before, I'm not wanting to remove the Dominion system- some people think it's fine as it is - while others don't. I'm seeing both camps and what they have to offer - meanwhile I'm acting my like my Jedi character in the hopes we, as a community,could come up with something that gives us a bit of both. I don't want to see Dominion's stripped away from the people that enjoy those episodic adventures, but I also don't want to see Faction's bleed members because of a "stagnancy" that's overtaken the map game either. As I've stated previously, I'm looking to enhance and flavour the map game by seeking out a supplementary system that enhances the map game; making it more enjoyable for a majority of people.

 

You want, and see nothing wrong with Dominion's? They're there for you. You want something more? Here are the options to keep things fresh and exciting! 

 

Which leads me to admit, Yes - the status quo is just fine as it is. However, ask anyone that's have chicken and rice for a month straight - they're looking for something a bit more than the status quo. Things keep going the way they have been, only because that's the only way that a faction can retain it's major status. So, while it may not originally be apart of the status quo - why not make skirmishes meaningful and have them count towards a faction's activity level, and essentially allow them to spread their influence cloud across the map? Yes, you can do that in a dominion thread - but no-one can join said dominion thread to stop your faction from expanding - unless invited. At the end of the day? All you're doing is adding to their post count for approval. The Major Faction will still claim that hex and your contribution to it would be wiped away in a single line of flavour text.

 

But, if it was done under a skirmish thread; where anyone has the chance to join it with - or without the Major Faction's consent? Now, the thread's got stakes. Now, Skirmishes actually matter! Now that Faction's forced to fight off anyone that would threaten their claim to said planet/system/sector and protect their would-be vassals. 

 

That's something you can't really do with a dominion thread, and something rarely seen outside of Invasion threads. 


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#31
Jay Scott Clark

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Khonsu Amon - So. A Rebellion, but for Majors. Huh. But what would we call that... Hmm. Needs a name. Needs a name.



#32
Zeradias Mant

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Just a reminder that these are still a thing.


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#33
Khonsu Amon

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Jay Scott Clark - I mean, fundamentally speaking? Maybe?

 

Rebellions as they are - are a whole different can of worms I think need some tweaking as well, but that's not the point of this thread. lol

 

As it stands currently? We've got the prefixes already that could easily be enhanced and applied to these situations. Why not use them, instead of making up new ones.

 

 

 


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#34
Khonsu Amon

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Zeradias Mant - I completely forgot about Conquests, tbh. They're not in the faction drop down menu, so it kinda slipped my mind. lol I'mma bookmark that so that won't happen again. 


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#35
Gilamar Skirata

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A Major Faction gets a choice each month to show their activity (and through it the justification for the continued passive expansion). This could be: Codex submissions.

 

*cracks fingers*



#36
Darth Maliphant

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I'm pretty sure the point of the entire conversation is to change Dominions from 'one off, shallow' threads to something people could really delve into, to open up the grinding for proverbial territory to something relatively interesting in more ways than 'Dominions'.

 

I hate to be devil's advocate here, but I've spoken to plenty of the people defending Dominions about the topic, just mindlessly complaining, and the general consensus from everyone is that they are boring, shallow, and one of the greatest concerns for burnout there is. The OP wasn't wrong in any of their guesses, and to say 'well OURS work just fine' doesn't change the fact that they're horribly boring. Yes, your faction may have done some musical dominions, maybe some social, maybe some RPJ's really came down and said 'hey do something more', but Dominions wear our everyone involved.

 

50 posts, 3 times a month, for a SSD and a new colored in hex on the map. 

 

That is all the incentive there is. Honestly, opening up how that can be done to something less 'grindy' while keeping those an option, and perhaps adding in new incentives or interesting concepts for Major factions could put a little life into an otherwise lackluster, salty, boring system. 


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#37
Tathra Khaeus

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I'll be honest, dom's aren't as easy as the CIS members here propose. Not every faction is like the CIS where in which, they have the populace to jump between reliable admins because lets be honest reliable and competent admins are few and far between. Addtionally, factions like the CIS where a tea party or musical or such, isn't always the case.

 

Some factions are more tonally linear, through what they are or what the characters within suit. While I applaud the Confederacy's versatility, its Chaos easy difficulty for dominions.

 

I'm on-board with what Khonsu Amon is saying.

 

 

P.S

 

I too, hate musicals. Having been in at least five, I truly despise them.


Edited by Tathra Khaeus, 22 September 2018 - 09:22 PM.

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#38
Darth Carnifex

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The OP wasn't wrong in any of their guesses, and to say 'well OURS work just fine' doesn't change the fact that they're horribly boring. Yes, your faction may have done some musical dominions, maybe some social, maybe some RPJ's really came down and said 'hey do something more', but Dominions wear our everyone involved.

 

I'm glad you made the point before I had a chance to.

 

I wouldn't have been as polite.

 

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#39
Darth Athora

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Mmmm nah. Doing it that way kind of ruins the roleplay immersion.

 

"Hey this faction created a species and hosted a pretty cool party. They should get a planet for it."

 

Don't like it.


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#40
Scherezade deWinter

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I'm gonna make a general reply here since a bunch of people have posted since I've gone to bed.

  • The musical thing was an example that I see a bunch of times getting repeated with an attempt to poke. You people need to get to over it, or ask to be invited next time. There's a few of you that I'd love to see in 90s crop tops ;)
  • If your dominions are boring, turn your complaints to whoever is writing them for you.
  • If your faction staff isn't doing anything to keep your interest in writing faction related stuff, turn your complaints to faction staff.
  • Dominions, in their current shape, can be long, can be drawn, can take you three months to write. There is nothing that limits you. It can be a char development thread, it can be a diplomatic meeting of sorts, it can even include the contents of a skirmish. Don't let lack of imagination limit you
  • SSDs are not needed to win PvP anyway, so you don't have to do 3 dominions a month to get them.
  • In essence, it sounds more people here want passive expansion for things they're already doing that aren't doms. A big, "I don't want to put in effort for this, I want to be recognized for what I'm already doing". Which is totally legit. That's how things would work in a perfect world. But this system isn't gonna give it.

Edited by Scherezade deWinter, 23 September 2018 - 12:04 AM.

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