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Defensive Stronghold Rework

Mandate Rework

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16 replies to this topic

#1
Kor Vexen

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Am I the only one who thinks that the Defensive Stronghold needs a rework of some sort?

 

I am sort of the belief that it should be reworked to have capped numbers to something like the following:

 

Defensive Stronghold
Strength | This Major Faction can have X Additional Ally Slots in addition to the base 5.
Weakness | This Major Faction has reduced Ally Slots by X.

 

X is any variable number though I am leaning more towards it being 3 since a single writer already contributes much to an invasion. With that in mind, the mandate would give 8 Ally Slots total on the negative side being only to request 2 Ally Slots if they tried to invade. 

 

This is more or less nerf the benefits of Defensive Stronghold while still giving them some assurance that they can get some help if they tried to invade. In my eyes, this would be beneficial to smaller factions as well who can still have the benefit of the doubt that they will have some help if they tried to invade someone else.

 

To me, Defensive Stronghold is too much of a reason to just sit there and do nothing but twiddle thumbs 90% of the time while active.


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#2
Cynthia Solus

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Honestly it doesn't really need a Re work. If a faction wants to invade and wants the allies then they have to change mandates. If they wish to build up play safe and focus on their stories I say go for it.

#3
Kor Vexen

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The rework is more geared towards nerfing unlimited ally slots on defense than it is about allowing them to invade others with limited slots. The notion that having unlimited ally slots is more or less a joke with loopholes in the system, and there is little to no reason apart from thematics to take any of the other mandates that grant ally slots if X conditions are met like Droid Army. If anything Defensive Stronghold should only request unlimited ally slots if the characters are mercenaries/mercenary companies but it wouldn't fit the name. It is also meant more to help smaller factions as opposed to larger ones. 

 

Cynthia Solus


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#4
Captain Jordan

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It is also meant more to help smaller factions as opposed to larger ones.

 

Yeah, and honestly I think you hit on the key point here. It's definitely intended for smaller factions to use to protect against getting roflstomped right out of the gate (especially when Big Brother factions aren't able or willing to protect them). 

 

If the mandate limited ally slots by an inversely-proportional relationship with map hexes, this might avoid large factions taking it to just sit on their hands, and would encourage smaller factions to utilize it for their period of initial growth before changing mandates to something more appropriate. 

 

Besides, it makes some sense that the more territory you have, the less defensible it is overall. There's just only so many ways you can reinforce dozens of systems before you start finding cracks where someone can slip through. So large factions taking this and mostly staying out of the invasion pool due to this mandate is kind of silly. 

 

That said, there's two points that this misses. First is that the CIS/NR is a good example of a small faction that was invaded despite their mandate giving them unlimited allies. And second, this requires that factions actually do have a substantial amount of allies who want to join in, it doesn't matter how many slots you have, you have to have enough friends (or enough enemies of your enemy) to take advantage of them to make it worthwhile. In that sense alone, this mandate may already be as balanced as it needs to be, and as such, I see little need for it to change. 



#5
Thorne

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I think it's perfectly viable as is. As stated, it's mainly for small factions just starting out, so they aren't smashed into the ground. In that regard, sadly it's required amid the factions we have.

 

Perhaps the more pertinent question is why do we need a mandate like this to begin with?


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#6
Jay Scott Clark

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To me, Defensive Stronghold is too much of a reason to just sit there and do nothing but twiddle thumbs 90% of the time while active.

 

IMO, nah.

 

If a Major Faction wants to create activity for themselves by just doing 10 cooking threads a month? That's fine with me. Go for it. Knock yourselves out. If 300 people all want to join and bake brownies for 20 threads a month? Yeah. Fine. Whatever. That level of positive energy and activity is great. Good and healthy stuff there man. Even if they haven't posted an "Invasion" in forever. No biggie.


Edited by Jay Scott Clark, 02 April 2019 - 03:52 AM.


#7
Alkor Centaris

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Several points of contention:

The mandate, as is, gives a Major Faction several things. The ability to respond to overwhelming odds by allowing outsiders to come to their aid, and a false sense of security that having allies is going to save them. The largest problem with Defensive Stronghold as it stands is that it presumes that a faction is going to to at least make an effort to repel invasion. If all of your strength is coming from numbers not your own, it says a lot about your faction.

Ideally, Defensive Stronghold would be reworked to allow for a comfortable number of allies to bolster numbers, but not to a degree that gives that group a perceived edge. A cap on the ally number, for instance, to no more than the number of active writers in the faction participating in the invasion would make a ton of sense to me.

Say you have five dedicated members, and they are the only ones who are going to be active for the invasion (including alts), then you'd be limited to extra allies in a number directly proportionate to that. If you have 10 active, invasion ready members, you get 10 allies (potentially.) I say we don't give those factions unnecessary breathing room. The map game is vicious, it's always shifting, it's chaotic.

The mandate as it stands delays the inevitable.

I say, "you should get out what you put in."

What do you guys think?

#8
Thorne

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If all of your strength is coming from numbers not your own, it says a lot about your faction.

 

Not necessarily. Some factions are new, haven't gained as many members, or might otherwise not be as mainstream as some larger factions.

 

Your proposal, while aiming to be fair, mostly benefits the larger faction of the pair.

 

Let's say, for example, CIS attacked CA. As a result, CA can field around 13 members at peak, which is 13 allies (by your adjustment). CIS can field 30+ members if they so desire (I'm not familiar with your total numbers). The mandate is now redundant and the smaller faction - still trying to find its place and footing amid giant factions - is still the worse for the effort, despite being at maximum member involvement.

 

The way it stands right now is designed to give larger groups a moment of hesitation, which is how it should be in my opinion.

 

Ideally, once a faction is bigger and fields more members, then it stands to reason the mandate they have could/should change to another. But for the smaller factions starting out, it's kind of integral, especially given the stomping that can occur on the board.


Edited by Thorne, 02 April 2019 - 04:44 AM.

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#9
Jay Scott Clark

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Alkor Centaris - Doesn't change my opinion. The mandate itself is fine, change-able, and extremely useful to smaller Majors. I see absolutely zero reason to change anything about it.



#10
Darth Metus

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IMO it should stay as it is.

From the perspective of turning in invasions to be judged, one of the things I've noticed is that, the larger the faction is, the more difficult it is to keep the numerous supporters in check. Coordinating a sizeable faction is daunting in of itself, so adding a fresh layer of 5+ people can make writing a consistent narrative difficult.

And that's what wins invasions. Not numbers. Not number of hexes. The ability to write a better story than the other team. So, even if a tiny faction gets 30 people to show up - it doesn't save them if they can't out write the opposition. And if a larger faction wants to use the mandate for peace of mind? Still doesn't change their ability to write a story. It just throws extra wrenches into their defense effort.

Case in point, Eshan. #ThankYouTathra

So yeah, by all means, leave this mandate alone. XD

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#11
Marina

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Fine how it is.



#12
Coren Starchaser

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WAR


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#13
Bryce Bantam

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Invasions are won by good writers, not number of writers. Defensive stronghold allows for more people to play if they want.

My two cents, nothing wrong with it, bunker up if ya want.

#14
Tathra Khaeus

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​- Was solely OOC ally.

​- Doesn't have comprehensive IC defence cause even the dominion painted it that that was the way it was gonna be nor OOC as the ME didn't bother their arse to communicate with me, barely if at all. Which is their job.

​- ThanksTathylol

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​Edit: Mandate should stay as is though.

 


Edited by Tathra Khaeus, 04 April 2019 - 08:51 PM.

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#15
Captain Jordan

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​- Was solely OOC ally. ​
- Doesn't have comprehensive IC defence cause even the dominion painted it that that was the way it was gonna be nor OOC as the ME didn't bother their arse to communicate with me, barely if at all. Which is their job.


If you're in an invasion thread, it's kind of your responsibility to check in with other players and figure out what's going on, too. You cannot simply rely on them to tell you. There's no distinction there for IC or OOC allies, even invasion enemies need to coordinate so that the best story can be written.

 

That the faction did or did not coordinate with you is their problem, and you should bring that up at the end of it to the faction admins (of both factions if you wish) or the RPJ judging. But that doesn't give you a license to do whatever you want without culpability, either.

 

This is a discussion for elsewhere, though, Darth Metus Tathra Khaeus. #GetARoom



#16
Kurayami Bloodborn

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This rework does nothing to remove any extant loopholes and in fact would only exacerbate the issue of people joining a faction so that they can participate for their chosen side without using up an ally slot. Especially true for a smaller faction with the mandate that wants to invade someone else, get those who would work as allies to join before the invasion is announced and then there is no need for ally slots to start with. After the invasion is submitted and judged they can leave with no repercussions.

As it stands the mandate is fine, no rework necessary.

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#17
Tathra Khaeus

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Captain Jordan

 

I'm not without fault, sure.

 

But I sure as sithspit ain't the only one at fault for the complete lack of communication, or the Mandalorian loss.

 

Mando's were an unco-ordinated mess with or without me.


Edited by Tathra Khaeus, 05 April 2019 - 02:35 PM.

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