Feedback 2,400 Post Feedback and a Change in Course

[Darth Strosius]

Hello everyone!

So after like 2 or 3 years of writing this one character without any LOAs I am knocking on the door of 2,400 posts! Given that I've seen people do feedbacks after like 500 posts I figure it's finally time that I do so as well! Normally I am, rather infamously, not really open to feedback. I mean I'm the one writing Alisteri so I should know all his flaws right? That's been my logic thus far at least but I think that, given what I've decided to do with him going forward, both he and I could use some proper review from you good people of Chaos.

Before I open myself and my boy up for feedback though I'd like to share with you all what I believe his biggest weakness as a character to be so that you can get some proper context as to why I'm choosing to write him differently going forward.

So when I started writing here on Chaos I had been forum roleplaying for a few years but had never really done Star Wars roleplay despite being a fan of the series since I was born due it being a favorite series of my father's and brothers. Out of the blue I stumbled across Chaos and the rest is history! Alisteri is by far one of if not my favorite character that I've ever written and he's definitely the longest I've ever written for. He's had his moments, his rises and falls, his adventures and dangers, and there is still more to come for him I feel. However, having said that, his biggest issue for me has always been that he is a fairly complex, or at least complicated to properly explain and summarize, character and yet all of that complexity is sort of hollow given that I've just kind of written it all by myself.

I've just never had the chance to properly embed him into a long term storyline or arc with another person. Even back when he still had that "new character smell" as it were he was mostly just a character that existed in Faction threads with a handful of other private threads. The other writers in those few private threads have by now either unfortunately put the site behind them or have otherwise moved on to greener pastures in terms of better writers and more interesting characters. Not that I blame them of course but that lead to Alisteri basically having no one to interact with and nothing to do once TSE fell from the map. That was where my article series really kicked into high gear to do the heavy lifting that the scarce few threads I could scrounge up couldn't. Everything that I couldn't do with another writer I could do in articles, I could show off his gradual corruption of morality as he fell deeper into the Dark Side, I could write out interactions with his cult and their usual affairs, all that sort of stuff that I just wouldn't be able to do otherwise.

However while I do thoroughly enjoy writing up articles and whatnot, the problem of most if not all of Alisteri's story being written alone was not lost on me. I would hear the old timers talk about the old days, about grand storylines and thrilling relationships and fun interactions, and I would wonder when I would get the chance to have those for Alisteri. I tried many times to get in on some of this long term story stuff but nothing too significant really came out of any of them. No matter how many LFGs I made or what sorts of style and ideas I would pose I would only get like maybe one or two one off threads from them. Reaching out to people OOCly and planning stuff there bore little fruit as well, whether it be for more character oriented stuff or even starting up some sort of little group of some kind within the faction.

While I tried and failed though I would see writers coming back after LOAs, new writers coming in, and even just writers making a new character, and the next thing I knew they had like five private threads and three fun relationships and interactions with other characters and writers. Some of them even went so far as to make new characters specifically because of it. I won't lie and pretend to be a saint, I was jealous. I was jealous that people could come out of woodwork and just have threads and characters thrown at them while I was constantly trying and active and only got crumbs in comparison. The worst part is that to this day I just don't get how it works. I don't understand what else I could do to try and get in on all the fun. That was what made me jealous most of all I think, that I was just incapable of it while everyone else wasn't. But I knew that this was selfish of me, so I put my jealousy aside and instead focused on helping my faction as best as I could as by this point I was an admin in the Sith Order. It did always bother me though, and I'm not proud to admit that I still do get somewhat jealous when it happens.

Having said that though I kept on. I kept writing when and how I could and I became satisfied with just having those one off threads or having interactions that only lasted for the duration of a Dominion or a Faction thread. It never amounted to Alisteri himself growing or developing all that much though. This is why I'm always so quick to dismiss any praise or compliments about him, in comparison to every other character on the site he basically been written in a vacuum. It's all just me typing out stuff rather than me actually engaging and evolving him with other writers. He is still a very reactive character of course but he does nothing in actual events. He's been in many Faction threads but his involvement in basically all of them can be summarized as "he was there."

Now this had all been on my mind for quite a while but I didn't really start thinking about the future or how I would change any of this until we started planning out the Ouroboros Crisis and especially the aftermath of it. I knew that Alisteri would ascend to become a Sith Lord and the Lord Inquisitor of the Sith Order's Inquisition and I was ecstatic! I was more excited about it than I had been about writing in a good while. I was so excited in fact that for the first time ever I actually wrote an article in advance, one that has yet to be posted as we have yet to finish out Serpent's Den, all about his ascension to Sith Lord.

But then I thought about what came after and I just drew a blank.

Now don't get me wrong, despite my protestations I have entertained the idea of having Alisteri become a big bad within the Sith Order once or twice. Having him as a player on the chessboard of the Sith and vying for the throne and title of Dark Lord. But those thoughts always ended up the same way. Alisteri is hollow. His story is hollow. When I cast down the "Emperor Alisteri" meme in the Sith Order by saying "He can't be a big bad" I mean it. There are no characters that follow him or are really influenced by him, no characters that would even consider him a candidate for being a powerful Sith, and I'm probably more well known by the wider site as a Codex Judge than anything else. Alisteri simply can not be a big influential character because he has no influence. For all intents and purposes he has been nothing but a background/recurring character on Chaos. I think he's just a bit too niche to really fill that role anyway, too much fluff and not enough substance.

In addition it would be a great disservice to the Sith Order faction as a whole for me to try and move him in that direction at all. I've always championed giving new writers their time in the sun, giving them the chance to become a big bad, all that sort of stuff. Alisteri and I are old news. His time in the sun has long since past and with the Ouroboros Crisis he has peaked in what he can accomplish and achieve. It's time for newer writers with ideas and characters that actually interest people and start threads to become the influential players, not a character that got shoehorned in because his writer is an admin.

As such I've decided that with Alisteri having peaked and his chance at big bad status nonexistent due to both IC and OOC factors, to lean fully into the supporting role. I do still intend to keep writing him doing stuff on his own, the lord article for him will give a bit of a snapshot into what's to come on that front if anyone is interested, but this will be relegated to articles only. This isn't much of a change admittedly but it means that I will stop trying to get threads for him that involve him developing or growing in some way for the most part. Instead I want to focus on helping other characters on their journeys. I want my future LFGs to be more about "how can I help your character do fun stuff?" rather than me begging for interaction with my weird cultist Sith like my previous ones have been. And again I've already started on that journey by trying to help new Sith writers get their start and even by taking on an apprentice for Alisteri, Maerae Verdan, in order to help new characters get up and running and have fun stuff happen!

Need your up and coming character to prove themselves by besting a Sith Lord? Need someone to send soldiers or Sith after some precious artifact? Need an epic duel on some perpetually raining battlefield? Boom, Alisteri is there! It's sort of what I've been doing in all the one off threads anyway so its not like it'll be anything I haven't done before really, just that will be my main focus for him as a character now that there's really nowhere for him to go. I write articles when I want Alisteri's story to continue and I write threads to help others have their stories continue. Simple as that really.

But enough of my whining and rambling on, seriously if you actually read all that then you are a hero! Feedback on Alisteri as a character and for myself as his writer is now officially open! Whether it be here on the site or over on Discord I want to know what people really think about Alisteri. What are my good writing moments? What are my bad ones? What elements and aspects of his character should I focus on or shift focus away from? If I'm being honest I'm not expecting too many responses given his aforementioned lack of interaction and influence but I figure he's been around long enough that there's something to say about him. So let me know and have a good day!

 

[Jonyna Si]

I've only just started my first thread with him, but I will applaud your maturity to put him in a supporting role in such a way.

One of the things I've seen a lot of over my ten years of RPing in various places is a general unwillingness to see prized characters 'lose'. I'll even admit to doing so myself at times, but there's a general sense of politicking within the RP community as a whole. Maybe it's my pro wrestling fan speaking, but the idea of seeing a character who's been around the block, and thus has the ability to take Ls for those who need to prove themselves and establish themselves as characters reminds me a lot of the Undertaker.

So keep doing that! I love the idea of a sith lord that is good enough and confident enough to help younger writers flourish!

 

[Brandyn Sal-Soren]

Hey there. We have done one private thread together and I thoroughly loved it. Honestly would love to have more time with Alisteri.

Your emotional sentiment is something I have expressed before. To be honest, half of the characters that are created on a whim because you just have to be involved with Exciting Project of Friend Number 567…don’t last. So don’t be bothered too much by them.

On a side note, since getting back into writing here…the third time…a while ago…I come and go a lot…and use lots of ellipsis…ah…since coming back a few years ago, I thought you ‘had it all sorted’ and were one of the who’s who of the board.

All that to say. I would really like to develop Brandyn’s story with you, and add some core to Alesteri at the same time.

 

[Alina Tremiru]

It's still wild to me how little you think of yourself. And honestly, that's the biggest part of my feedback for you. Have more confidence in yourself. Like holy crap. Alina and Alisteri were bouncing posts back and forth for months since we'd started writing, and it was those interactions that really set a lot of Alina's personality in stone. Alisteri had a huge effect on her.

But then you started with the whole greener pastures thing and self defamation. It's really hard to keep writing with someone who is constantly talking about how bad of a writer they are (especially when it's just not true) and they're determined to be considered that bad despite people saying otherwise.

Alisteri has never once came across as a hollow character. It's been amazing to read his threads and see how he went from an incredibly unsure of himself Acolyte to the high priest of a cult he made for himself, to the Sith he is in the Oriboris Crisis lecturing Malum, who is bsing the unsure one, on the importance of making their move. I've been a long time Alisteri fan, and I truly hope you see that your character is not hollow and that you aren't some lesser writer. Have some confidence in yourself and the stories you've written.

 

[Darth Strosius]

Jonyna Si

I wouldn't really call it maturity to be honest, it's more so just a general sort of theme I've noticed with the threads that I get and especially in my more recent ones. I figured I may as well lean in to what works and be more helpful around the site! If I can't start up threads and entice roleplay myself then I can at least help get other people going on theirs.

Brandyn Sal-Soren

I clearly know how to put on a good show then! Always happy to see returning folks to the board as well. I do have it together in the sense that I'm comfortable with where and how I do things but as you can see in the post it took a good minute for me to get to that point, and I'm definitely not someone worth knowing in terms of the wider board lol. I would love to hear what you had in mind for Brandyn sometime then! I'm here to help add onto stories and keep things rolling for characters and writers alike so just DM me anytime!

Alina Tremiru

Full disclosure, as people can probably notice about me very quickly, I do indeed have some self confidence lackings. I've never been one of those people that are really good at anything and whenever I am somewhat decent at something its usually just the baseline stuff that anyone can do if they put their mind to it. Chaos is a perfect example of that, I can write a decent character on his own but beyond that I can't really make anything else happen. I wouldn't say my lack of confidence is the thing that makes me hard to write with but I'll take it into consideration given that you'd know that better than I would. See if I can pull back on that in some way.

Oh I do enjoy the stories I've written and especially the more recent Crisis stuff where like all of Alisteri's arcs and storylines have kind of led to this moment. I do still fully intend on keeping his story going, as much as I can anyway, but in regards to how I interact with the wider site I can't have it be my primary focus. Once Alisteri becomes a Sith Lord his goals become impossible from an OOC perspective and would be unfair to those that could actually be movers and shakers if I were to try and pursue them. He's hollow in the sense that there isn't really much he can do outside of articles and the like, so that's where all of his stuff will be from now on. The proper threads and whatnot will be focused on helping others out, giving them fun moments and all that. I think that's kind of my job as staff in a faction anyway lol.

 

[Alina Tremiru]

I think that's kind of my job as staff in a faction anyway lol.

That's another thing. I think being faction staff has really ruined you. You got thrown in to the meat grinder of the Sith civil war as a brand new writer and it warped all sorts of opinions you have. And now you're defining how you write by being faction staff. That's not good. You're a writer doing a hobby, not an unpaid intern.

 

[Darth Strosius]

Alina Tremiru

I'd really say that it did the opposite of ruin me! If I'm being honest being on faction staff was what really kept me on Chaos. It gave people to talk to, things to keep up with and keep an eye on, and especially threads to write! I couldn't make threads with Alisteri fun but I could make threads that others could enjoy and participate in just as well. As for all that mess at the start I can agree that certainly warped Chaos a bit for me, to this day I legit recoil at the mention of invasions lol.

 

[Madrona A’Mia]

First off, I have to applaud you for taking the time to share something so meaningful and vulnerable with us. It really does take a heap of emotional intelligence and at least a little bravery to open up like this, to share what you the writer have experienced on an interpersonal level and also what you've gone through with Darth Strosius character wise. So thank you very much for doing that.

I admit that I'm still very new, to both the Sith Order and to forum life in general, so obviously feel free to take my feedback with a grain of salt. That said, I am endeavoring to provide earnest balanced feedback to honor both the fact that you've opened yourself up to feedback in the first place and to address the nature of the post itself!

You were either the first or close to the first person who greeted me when I popped onto Chaos, and after that you were the first friendly presence to greet me when I joined the Sith Order discord. You are very very good at making people feel heard, seen, and welcome. I feel confident saying that in broad strokes because of how generally liked and appreciated you are by any person I've seen interact with you. You are a kind, thoughtful and bolstering presence that we all benefit from. The flip side to that is what others have already pointed out and I agree with: you are not kind enough to yourself.

I understand and respect humility, I think your particular brand lends itself well to the strenuous labor of love that is being volunteer staff for a community project as big as Chaos is. However, I really do think you ought to consider allowing others to extend a similar kindness to you in turn. You are an excellent writer and I have said as much, others have too, many times over. It becomes discouraging however when that is almost always met with "thanks but no".

I respect your vision for your character, I believe strongly in pursuing that which calls to you in story making. I also hear and empathize with how painful it has been for you at times to see others succeed in collaborative story telling where you have not found the same success. It sounds like you have a mindset forged by past experiences of being let down but ultimately choosing to transmute that energy in a positive way. Additionally, no one can tell you what's best for you or your character and it's really important (in my personal ethos) for someone to truly feel free to walk the creative path that most feeds their soul. That said, I invite you to reflect on the ways you contribute to the rigid path Alisteri (and by extension you) walk moving forward.

My ultimate feedback to you is to be gentler toward yourself. Consider accepting compliments or at least not dissuading them quite so much when they happen. Don't speak so negatively of yourself or your character when they are spoken of positively or people show interest. That said, I deeply respect that you have a specific direction you plan to take moving forward! You seem to genuinely dislike the jokes about/ serious implication that others would love to see Alisteri as emperor or some other major actor amongst the Sith. If that is truly something you are not ok with or not interested in, I am going to back your play. I will vehemently support you and stand up for how you do or don’t want to be regarded IC and OOC. I genuinely want to bolster you and your vision as best I can in the way you have done for so many others.

And so I ask you, dearest badass and lovely writer of Alisteri, how can we support you? Is there anything you might ask of this community you have given so much to and done a lot for?

 

[Darth Ophidia]

Darth Strosius

Honestly, supporting others was what kept me around for a long time. If supporting others is what you really want, then you need to let yourself win more often. If not for yourself then for everyone who wants to be scared of Alisteri.

I often said make me proud, but you make me proud all the time.

 

[Darth Strosius]

Madrona A’Mia

I am very glad that my welcoming actually works at making people feel welcome! I know the site is big and intimidating at first but I learned that you don't really have to worry about every little thing thankfully. I just hope that I can help get people into factions and groups so that they'll realize that for themselves and have their own little area to play around in.

As for the complimenting and my discouragement of said complimenting I suppose that I can try and reel back on that a bit. Like I said earlier its just kind of strange to me to recieve anything like that because I know that there are better writers than me, more courageous and inventive and creative writers than me, and I don't really think I deserve it in comparison. Believe it or not I do find the Emperor Alisteri or big bad Alisteri meme funny and I am rather tickled to be subject of it! However I know that isn't a path that Alisteri could really ever take at this point and I don't want to dissuade other writers from that path by having them think I am considering having Alisteri in the big leagues. Like I said, he's kind of old news and his time is past now, whether I like it or not lol.

Darth Ophidia

See that's the main thing I'm worried about when it comes to trying to help out ither writers using Alisteri, he really doesn't have enough of a presence or reputation to make anything with him significant or worth pursuing. I'm sure I'll come up with some solution for that though. And thank you very much Tor! It's been an absolute pleasure writing an apprentice for Ophidia!

 

[Darth Malum of House Marr]

To begin, I think it's no surprise that I think rather highly of you, I enjoy speaking to you, and we have been both RPing and speaking with each other, on and off for about a year now. To add to that point, it is also clear to me that the Sith Order, despite your desire to marginalise your accomplishments within it, would be a radically different place without you.

It is also comforting to know that if the similarities I see, are truly there, that means I will probably end up at least writing-wise, as someone I'll be proud to be.

Now, I am not going to try the tough love approach of TNB or the sweetness of Madrona. I have seen how you are responding to them both here and on Discord, and while I do think they are doing excellent work here, your responses at least to me show that on a fundamental level, you disagree with their conclusions.

On that level, reading over your posts here, I think something else becomes clear. I don't think you are looking for feedback, because at the end of the day, I think you wanted people to support your conclusions, I think you still believe what you said at the beginning, "Normally I am, rather infamously, not really open to feedback. I mean I'm the one writing Alisteri so I should know all his flaws right?"

Now this is a rather concerning stance to hold on at least two levels, the first being that any level of writing should be opened to criticism and feedback, because well, in the creative process that is how one makes sure they are improving. Add on the fact that this is roleplay, an inherently collaborative exercise, and you really cannot remain so insular to be against feedback.

Now at the end of the day, what TNB, Madrona, the others, and I think matters little. Because at the end of the day, Alisteri is yours to do with as you wish.

But in saying that, it is better for you, and for everyone else, if what you want comes from a place of desire, rather than a place of feeling like you have no other options.

That distinction is one which you'll need to grapple with yourself, but to me, I think you are still firmly in the latter camp.

moved on to greener pastures in terms of better writers and more interesting characters

That was what made me jealous most of all I think, that I was just incapable of it while everyone else wasn't. But I knew that this was selfish of me, so I put my jealousy aside and instead focused on helping my faction as best as I could as by this point I was an admin in the Sith Order. It did always bother me though, and I'm not proud to admit that I still do get somewhat jealous when it happens.

Having said that though I kept on. I kept writing when and how I could and I became satisfied with just having those one off threads or having interactions that only lasted for the duration of a Dominion or a Faction thread. It never amounted to Alisteri himself growing or developing all that much though. This is why I'm always so quick to dismiss any praise or compliments about him, in comparison to every other character on the site he basically been written in a vacuum. It's all just me typing out stuff rather than me actually engaging and evolving him with other writers. He is still a very reactive character of course but he does nothing in actual events. He's been in many Faction threads but his involvement in basically all of them can be summarized as "he was there."

Alisteri is hollow. His story is hollow. When I cast down the "Emperor Alisteri" meme in the Sith Order by saying "He can't be a big bad" I mean it. There are no characters that follow him or are really influenced by him, no characters that would even consider him a candidate for being a powerful Sith, and I'm probably more well known by the wider site as a Codex Judge than anything else. Alisteri simply can not be a big influential character because he has no influence. For all intents and purposes he has been nothing but a background/recurring character on Chaos. I think he's just a bit too niche to really fill that role anyway, too much fluff and not enough substance.

In addition it would be a great disservice to the Sith Order faction as a whole for me to try and move him in that direction at all. I've always championed giving new writers their time in the sun, giving them the chance to become a big bad, all that sort of stuff. Alisteri and I are old news. His time in the sun has long since past and with the Ouroboros Crisis he has peaked in what he can accomplish and achieve. It's time for newer writers with ideas and characters that actually interest people and start threads to become the influential players, not a character that got shoehorned in because his writer is an admin.

As such I've decided that with Alisteri having peaked and his chance at big bad status nonexistent due to both IC and OOC factors, to lean fully into the supporting role. This isn't much of a change admittedly but it means that I will stop trying to get threads for him that involve him developing or growing in some way for the most part. Instead I want to focus on helping other characters on their journeys. I want my future LFGs to be more about "how can I help your character do fun stuff?" rather than me begging for interaction with my weird cultist Sith like my previous ones have been.

So I was going to make a joke about how much of your post was self-deprecating... then realised about more than half of it was this.

My point at the end is, that you have been burned in the past, and your feelings about that are perfectly valid. Yet, the past is in the past for a reason, and the weight you put onto it is entirely your own. You know for a fact you have big supporters on this site, those who want to see where you will take your character and do believe you could achieve those big bad things.

There are people here who adore threading with you, and who want well-thought-out stories where both characters are impacted. The past is the past, and it has affected you in many ways, but that does not mean the present and future will be the same. You could find yourself, finding exactly what you want.

Yet at the end of the day, what we think or want, matters little.

Just consider for me, is this what you want, or is this what you think you have been forced to accept?

Because there is a distinction to that, as I know very well.

 

[Jerec Asyr]

By and large, I really like to see established characters consciously shifted to a supporting role to make way for a bunch of new characters with more stakes, more goals, more hunger. Write some new people and it might surprise you how hungry one or two of them might get, how natural it is to be a main/driving rather than supporting character just for a thread or two. Maybe you get some traction off that and things escalate.

If you get the right idea for Doing Something and it's clear that you're having fun and will continue to do so - and that others are welcome to come along but you're gonna keep doing it whether or not they do - others will come along, more often than not. Then you just make sure they've got stuff to do and feel part of something, whoever they are. That's the closest thing to secret sauce I've got. You do something like that and I'll be there with bells on.

Darth Strosius

 

[Darth Strosius]

Darth Malum of House Marr

I must admit that I have mixed feelings about how quickly you picked apart my statements and remarks and found the heart of the issue lol, but I do greatly appreciate it nonetheless! Yes I fully recognize that this proposed shift in my threading strategy is largely a survival tactic, a way for me to keep writing despite my previous failures. I've seen what works, what gets Alisteri threads, and it's just not been what I thought or hoped would work so I figured that in order to keep writing him I have to shift my focus to what does get attention and interaction for him,

I do want to be open to feedback, to the raw unfiltered opinions of myself and my character that have been cultivated over the course of my time here on Chaos. But thus far they haven't been what I expected. If I'm honest then I really expected nothing at all, certainly not a good few responses both here and on Discord at the very least. But I genuinely wasn't expecting any sort of support or attempts to convince me this way or that, more of a "hey that's neat, here's this time you did a cool thing." In that same vein however maybe its the unexpected answers that I should be listening to rather than dismissing them outright just because my past failures have culminated in a rather odd situation for my character.

Jerec Asyr

I knew there was a secret sauce! Yeah I think that's been one of my struggles when it comes to writing. I've yet to figure out what the balance is between having a driving force and stealing the show and I'm too worried about coming off as gamemastery or controlling if I get it wrong. I'll have to see how other writers pull it off and see if I can notice any patterns or tricks for future use.

 

[Jerec Asyr]

I've yet to figure out what the balance is between having a driving force and stealing the show and I'm too worried about coming off as gamemastery or controlling if I get it wrong.

One way I've tried to approach that problem is with a different balance: between a) me-driven stuff, b) supporting stuff that other people are driving and care about, and c) the me-driven stuff that's in the service of the stuff other people are driving and care about. Not much builds community faster than C unless you've surrounded yourself with takers.

If you're spending time on B and C and can't make bandwidth (time/energy) for A, be assertive in carving out that space. People will want to hop on the bandwagon of A, and that can be a lot of fun.

All that to say: by and large, nobody's gonna resent you for being a leader as long as you're helping people with the stuff they care about. It's generally only the people who have to be The Main Character or The Boss all the time who get resented. You're in zero danger of that.

 

[Darth Strosius]

Jerec Asyr

Yeah I've definitely been doing more B and a little bit of C in regards to how you've categorized them. All of my A stuff has been relegated to articles with only some of it bleeding into the occasional faction thread. I doubt that people will really want to hop on the bandwagon wuth Alisteri as it were so I think I may go the route of seeing how I can do more C oriented stuff.

 

[Jerec Asyr]

Jerec Asyr

Yeah I've definitely been doing more B and a little bit of C in regards to how you've categorized them. All of my A stuff has been relegated to articles with only some of it bleeding into the occasional faction thread. I doubt that people will really want to hop on the bandwagon wuth Alisteri as it were so I think I may go the route of seeing how I can do more C oriented stuff.

Well, the way I see it, any given character may or may not be a fit for the A stuff at any given time. If you can think of something you'd genuinely enjoy pursuing, as often as not the longstanding main character isn't the tool for the job.

 

[Darth Strosius]

Jerec Asyr

Duly noted!