Deadly Void (Fleeting) OOC Thread

[Jessica Med-Beq]

For those who cannot access SJ forums, this blog post is the Mateus ship spec in its Omega condition (the final product may not reflect how it was used in Omega):

http://starwarsrp.net/blog/649/entry-1994-mateus-class-fleet-carrier/

 

[Tanomas Graf]

Round 2:

Spoiler

Round 6

Spoiler

Look at how clean the map was when the battle started, now it's all suddenly ships everywhere. Flanking GA in the top, Spray-and-pray FO in the middle, and the cautious MC in the bottom.

I for one am having a blast.

 

[Captain Larraq]

[member="Valiens Nantaris"]


Can I get some more info on how you're treating my Frigate/Bomber cavalry charge from the south?
Because the Frigates are suppose to be projecting a "wall of flak" to block incoming starfighters from countering the wave of starfighters and bombers. The Starfighters and Bombers should be "cutting forward thrust and turning towards targets as they pass" to launch bombs at capital ships while keeping themselves behind the physical bulk of the frigates as they advance.

Because... they were suppose to "pass through" that entire area in the last post and already be pass the area where my capital ships are advancing towards... not... stop upon reaching a hex with opposition in it.
It's space... There's plenty of room for them to slip between or over hostile ships as they move.

Parking them there is kinda screwing up my maneuvers.

 

[Valiens Nantaris]

[member="Captain Larraq"]
I can't remove your casualties for you. So this dogfight and flak frigate battle is happening in a moment of time before your frigates complete their charge.

So we remove our casualties this round and I complete your move and resolve your bombing damage.

It's the only way this can work. I can't resolve damage to my ships without knowing how many of your squadrons will die and you can't push on until the same happens.

FIring ships at each other is pretty clean because Writer A fires and Writer B takes damage. Dogfights are much more complicated though and have to be resolved in a mutual manner by adding an extra combat routine in.

 

[Captain Larraq]

[member="Captain Larraq"]
I can't remove your casualties for you. So this dogfight and flak frigate battle is happening in a moment of time before your frigates complete their charge.

So we remove our casualties this round and I complete your move and resolve your bombing damage.

It's the only way this can work. I can't resolve damage to my ships without knowing how many of your squadrons will die and you can't push on until the same happens.

FIring ships at each other is pretty clean because Writer A fires and Writer B takes damage. Dogfights are much more complicated though and have to be resolved in a mutual manner by adding an extra combat routine in.

yeah, but the entire point of the maneuver is to negate the possibility of a dogfight until after the bombs had been launched. The Vulcan Cannons create a wall of Flak strong enough to butcher Corvettes, which means that any starfighter has to either dodge the crap out of the wall of incoming flak, or more or less die instantly. And with the speed at which everything is moving, any countering starfighters would have to dodge to the top and bottom of the "wave" and then turn around and race to come in behind to try and make attacking runs at the rear of the formation.

Also, I've no idea where they are suppose to be at this point. My plans and the timing of my maneuvers were based around the frigates and starfighters moving their maximum speed last turn and beginning this turn north of the intended path of my ships. But, if they are paused as you have them now, that would put them directly in the LOF of my approaching ships.

Which... Yeah. I've no idea what you're doing anymore and I can't write my post until I understand it better. Those bombers were suppose to have already unleashed their ordnance and disrupted the Sith Line of Battle while me ships continued towards point-blank ranges. Arbitrarily stopping them the way you did has thrown off my entire attack plan.

 

[Valiens Nantaris]

[member="Captain Larraq"]
What you fail to understand is that you cannot just assume everything will go perfectly to your plan. Your wall of flak is neither 360 degrees, nor is it on all axis.
Fighters can come in below, above, behind, and if we had a 3D map I am sure we could show all this, but we don't.

You must resolve damage at least from my flak (of which I remind you I have 5 frigates as well as all the defence guns on the ships you are targeting) because that will affect how many bombers will survive to unleash payloads.
I can't tell you how many attack craft you have lost - you wouldn't like that if I did that in reverse now would you - so that at least must be processed first.

I will take appropriate damage both from your flak and your fighters and bombers but first you must do me the one service of telling me how many of your ships are lost first. I will take your original number of attacking squadrons as my baseline when I determine damage.

So what is happening is that you have to do something collaborative here. You cannot simply tell me that your plan went perfectly and all your bombers hit home no more than I can tell you that I killed X of your bombers before they reached their targets.

Also, I've no idea where they are suppose to be at this point.

They are at the point of contact for the dogfight, where fighters from both sides are meeting and trying to get at the other's bombers.

 

[Captain Larraq]

[member="Valiens Nantaris"]

Alright man. I'm done. Just yank my ships into netherworld or something, because this isn't working for me.
Had your starfighters already been deployed, that would have been one thing...
I can handle the conservative approach to damage taking and the specific limitations to movement speeds. But what's going on now just doesn't fly with me and I don't have the time or energy to sit down and write a five page thesis on trying to explain what does or doesn't happen in the time between posts. I move from X to Y, I shoot at Target Z. You shoot back with B firepower from R, T, and S ships.
I take C casualties, you take K damage.

Whatever. I can deal with that.

But things area already bogged down enough without demanding that I stop everything and declare the casualties I take from non-specific AA attacks and non-specific Starfighter attacks BEFORE I complete my bombing runs and you take casualties.

That's the breaking point for me man. I'm out.

 

[Valiens Nantaris]

If you want out, [member="Captain Larraq"], that's fine of course. I was hoping we could work this out further.

But things area already bogged down enough without demanding that I stop everything and declare the casualties I take from non-specific AA attacks and non-specific Starfighter attacks BEFORE I complete my bombing runs and you take casualties.

The purpose of flak is to shoot down bombers before they get there. It'd be pretty pointless if I could only shoot down bombers AFTER they have already done all their damage!

Take for instance if I had unleashed my bombers on you, sending my Razers ahead to create a web of fire from their 4 dozen quad lasers each. Would you have tamely not had any fighters or flak intercept and just taken every single bomber's full hit? I doubt it, and you would be right to demand some give as well as take.

How am I supposed to resolve damage from your bombers, hmm? Just assume all of them hit? I cannot assume damage to your ships. We can agree on this, yes? So you cannot tell me that I can't intercept the fighters without calling shots on me.

It'd be no different if I was in a duel with your character and I fired an e-web at you. You have to tell me whether any of those bolts hit, and what damage they did, before you can reach me and duel me.

I am very willing to accommodate as I am the NPC and the 'losing' party in the thread, but there's basic things we all need to do. Your Vulcan cannons will not be ignored of course, and you have superiority in numbers so my losses will likely be catastrophic...but I can't just up and post that without knowing how many you'll take.

 

[Horus]

[member="Captain Larraq"]
I really hate to be that guy... [x]

 

[Captain Larraq]

How am I supposed to resolve damage from your bombers, hmm? Just assume all of them hit? I cannot assume damage to your ships. We can agree on this, yes? So you cannot tell me that I can't intercept the fighters without calling shots on me.

It'd be no different if I was in a duel with your character and I fired an e-web at you. You have to tell me whether any of those bolts hit, and what damage they did, before you can reach me and duel me.

I am very willing to accommodate as I am the NPC and the 'losing' party in the thread, but there's basic things we all need to do. Your Vulcan cannons will not be ignored of course, and you have superiority in numbers so my losses will likely be catastrophic...but I can't just up and post that without knowing how many you'll take.

It was a painful order to give. Neither Larraq, nor, likely, the pilots themselves would be expecting any of those small ships to survive their assault on the enemy position. Hopefully though... they would be lives spent, not lives wasted. A matter that would be dependent upon the results they achieved. If nothing else though... They were about to greatly disrupt the enemy's line of battle.

It's a suicidal drive-by shooting. By the time they reach the intended end-positions, all 5 frigates should be dead and the starfighter swarm should be wiped out or nearly wiped out with empty ordnance bays. With 4 "occupied" hex's to cover, you could easily assume 10, 30, 60, and 80% casualties from hex-to-hex movement with the surviving ships launching 10, 30, 60, and 100% ordnance throughout those Hex's.

Roughly speaking anyway.

You could have taken it any way you wanted (in regard to damage taken). The intent behind the action was to achieve moderate damage output, lose the entire formation, but disrupt the Renegade Sith's Line of Battle at a critical moment during the advance of my capital ships.

But stopping it cold like that...

Coldcocks the entire strategy that I've planned out as my participation for this event.

"No plan survives contact with the enemy" is one thing.
Hell, failure is one thing.

Having physics and time continuity thrown to the side and "units" halted in time and space as the DM tries to figure out what the hell is going on...

Yeah, no. The fun is over and I'm going home.

 

[Valiens Nantaris]

[member="Captain Larraq"]
Then you should have just said that it was a suicide run and made that statement upfront. No one else would assume such a thing since they can't call shots on an enemy.

Alright, so here's what we'll do. I'll adjust your movement next time and take the required damage, you take what you feel is appropriate damage in this post and the whole thing resolves itself very neatly.
That makes things much, much simpler for both of us as we're both expecting massive losses.

If you're still wanting out despite this easy fix did you mind [member="Verz Horak"] or another Mando writer taking control? You've got no unique specifically clan ships in your fleet that I can see.

 

[Captain Larraq]

[member="Valiens Nantaris"]

I'm going to go ahead with removing myself from the thread. Verz or Draco's alt can have the fleet if they want.
But this has been a headache for days now, and I just don't have it in me to keep dealing with this.

 

[William Kerkov Sr]

This is what I am seeing.

Oh you Mandos with your last second jetpack escapes.

 

[Valiens Nantaris]

[member="Captain Larraq"]
OK no problems.

I'd be lying if I said I was surprised, but OK, I'll see if Verz or Rach wants the extra guns.

Thank you for your time.

 

[ADM. Reshmar]

Wow....

 

[Avicus DuSang]

With all this whine, I should've brought a cheese dish.

But instead I brought french cries. ^_^

 

[Velok the Younger]

This is what I am seeing.

Oh you Mandos with your last second jetpack escapes.

As someone who writes a large Mando clan, I needed this image in my life. Thank you for your service, [member="William Kerkov"]

 

[Natasi Fortan]

[member="Captain Larraq"]
OK no problems.

I'd be lying if I said I was surprised, but OK, I'll see if Verz or Rach wants the extra guns.

Thank you for your time.

I was under the impression that ships were non-transferable, is this not the case? If not, can we do something about Flora Burn's ships? She seems to have gone inactive/left the thread.

 

[Ayden Cater]

[member="Valiens Nantaris"]

Where are you getting 32 fighter squadrons to intercept me? I'm only counting 22 coming my way.

Edit: Also I'm not sure why my fighters are apparently in 3.10, rather than 2.10. My slowest fighter is Speed 4. Even if my dropship/gunships were included in the mass formation, they're speed 3/6 (Old/New). That's still eight hexes of movement, which is more than enough to go from 6.05 to 2.10

 

[Tanomas Graf]

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