Disney got no idea about lightsabres

[Kixi Rajki]

Disney is good vith anithing for kids or thoze who feel like kids. Since Marvel is about super-heros, thats prety much a given they wuld be good at it.

Ask them to make a serius movie - they kark it up.

Deadpool 1 and 2 are Marvel and no kids movies. At least Disney got those right.

 

[Ellie Mors]

Deadpool 1 and 2 are Marvel and no kids movies. At least Disney got those right.

I hate to be that person, but, Deadpool were Fox movies.

 

[Kixi Rajki]

I hate to be that person, but, Deadpool were Fox movies.

Were they. Oops. Ok. Got confused cos Deadpool is also Marvel. I guess Fox owns the rights to Deadpool unlike Disney who has the rights to the majority of Marvel characters.

 

[Matt the Radar Tech]

The Empire Strikes Back was also quite serious. It had humorous moments, sure, but the tone and arcs were definitely more serious than kiddie.

Also: laser swords.

 

[Kixi Rajki]

The Empire Strikes Back was also quite serious. It had humorous moments, sure, but the tone and arcs were definitely more serious than kiddie.

Also: laser swords.

True. And the romantic scenes between Han and Leia on the Falcon, as a kid I didn’t get it and found those parts boring. But now as an adult I really enjoy those bits.

Why can’t Disney just make a Star Wars movie like The Empire Strikes Back already... Well it’s good to dream I guess.

 

[Ellie Mors]

Technically it can't be a laser sword because lasers are as defined in the dictionary;

Lasers in star wars are not the same as LASER technology in the real world. Let's not try to pretend Star Wars is beholden to real world physics (which a lightsaber violates in every form of canon, from EU/Legends to movie and beyond). Lasers are:

But I guess you're probably going to say that's Disney canon since it uses the Canon article, so here's what the original EU explanation is:

While it's perfectly fine to dislike the new canon for logical reasons, like not liking the continued dark vs light or the disdain for TFA being a mirror of ANH, but everything I'm seeing in this thread is some serious mental gymnastics being done to rationalize an irrational hatred for all of this new canon. Everything good about Disney's new trilogy is exactly what you find in Marvel, the only reason I'm seeing people give that is an actual tangible reason, is that it is being done by Disney and isn't being done by Lucas - as if anything star wars related as done by someone other than Lucas cannot be Star Wars.

The No True Scotsman logical fallacy being presented here is absolutely insane, by that logic nothing on this forum is Star Wars - nothing you write can ever be "good", nothing I write can ever be either, and everything done by Disney for Marvel can't be considered Marvel, either.

It's fine that you don't like the new trilogy, but don't pretend that it's some objective pile of drivel or doesn't follow source material. The only trilogy that drastically changed how the force, lightsabers, and so on worked were the prequels, but nostalgia is one hell of a drug I guess.

 

[Matt the Radar Tech]

But they say 'a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away' implying it is technically be within our real world existence, Lily!

But, unrelated to your points, I'm never endingly annoyed by incorrect spelling of Wookiee. Has anyone else noticed that? Wookie is the most common.

On topic, I think lightsabers in star wars are like Wolverine's claws: varying degrees of effectiveness, depending on the requirements.

 

[Darth Ayra]

The Empire Strikes Back was also quite serious. It had humorous moments, sure, but the tone and arcs were definitely more serious than kiddie.

Also: laser swords.

You'll notice I never mentioned the Empire Strikes Back.

 

[Matt the Radar Tech]

You'll notice I never mentioned the Empire Strikes Back.

I'm aware. That's why I did. Because you said:

The only "serious" Star Wars film was Revenge of the Sith

And I disagree. I believe Empire to also be quite serious.

 

[Kixi Rajki]

I'm aware. That's why I did. Because you said:

The only "serious" Star Wars film was Revenge of the Sith

And I disagree. I believe Empire to also be quite serious.

And you’re right. On top of that, TESB is also the best Star Wars movie ever.

 

[Darth Ayra]

I'm aware. That's why I did. Because you said:

The only "serious" Star Wars film was Revenge of the Sith

And I disagree. I believe Empire to also be quite serious.

I disagree. Empire Strikes Back at it's core has a heartwarming message. It's a feelgood film. Han Solo gets put in Carbonite among other things. And there is that great moment when Vader reveals he is Luke's father. But the film doesn't make you think critically or feel much of anything other than happiness. None of the visuals are overtly shocking or repulsive. There are elements of seriousness in the film but you could say that about all of the Star Wars films.

Revenge of the Sith is just destruction from the gecko. Battles here, battles everywhere. Oh you're at peace on Utapau? Lol fuck that kid here's a million battle droids and the CIS's entire council. Whilst we're at it we're taking your resources. Oh you like kids and Anakin is a good guy? Let's butcher some off screen and make Ewan McGregor cry about it. Oh you liked all those Jedi did you? Here's some clone troopers butchering them for lulz. You thought Yoda was the shit? Here's Palpatine sending him off to exile permanently. You liked Padme?

SHES DEAD LOL

Revenge of the Sith is the second best Star Wars film in the entire saga. It's my personal favourite. I recognize that Empire's greatness and Vader's revelation trumps it in terms of cinematography but that film left you feeling goosebumps and it wasn't because it had a happy ending. People didn't like Hayden Christensen's acting in Clone Wars (with good reason) but he was superb in RoTS and really made you feel everything that was happening to his character. I didn't even talk about Mace Windu's hand. Legend has it that it's still falling off that skyscraper 14 years later and Palpatine's still ROFLing in his office with his pruned up face.

Suffice to say Empire Strikes Back isn't Star Wars "serious" film.

 

[Belizarius Krusi]

Ok, not a fan of the new movies but the lightsaber has been constantly evolving over time. If you were to tell George Lucas when he was directing episode 4, 5 and 6 that Jedi in the future would be able to use them like they were as light as a feather and had no weight or power behind them... he'd say "that's not how lightsabers work". I remember an interview where Mark Hamil said that George Lucas insisted that he treated the lightsaber like it had a lot of weight behind it, in fact Darth Vader being able to fight using one arm was in a way meant to reflect his strength.

A lot of things have been pretty inconsistent in Star Wars. For example what you can actually do with the Force has been taken to the stage where it just ridiculous in some interpretations like with KOTOR. I love the series but when you see the crap villains do in that series, it's hard to remember that Palpatine was meant to be one of the most powerful Sith in existence in his use of the force.

Reality is, Star Wars is Science Fantasy... it's allow to get away with being inconsistent because the universe it's set in doesn't have to worry about how things work but simply that they work. Meaning technology and such can simply be capable of doing what ever the writer requires.

EDIT: it's also why I prefer the duels in the original trilogy, the fighting looked like it was far more about skill rather than just raw power.

 

[Kixi Rajki]

Reality is, Star Wars is Science Fantasy... it's allow to get away with being inconsistent because the universe it's set in doesn't have to worry about how things work but simply that they work. Meaning technology and such can simply be capable of doing what ever the writer requires.

Yep exactly. That's why scifi rocks.

 

[Belizarius Krusi]

Yep exactly. That's why scifi rocks.

I agree, I like Star Trek which tries to be a harder Science Fiction show but that show has a huge amount of inconsistencies also. (Though my favourite SciFi show is still Farscape)

Most of my issues with The Last Jedi was because of the story but even i've come to realise that my issue is mostly related to my own expectations. Also as more information has come at it's become obvious J.J Abrams had no ideas about all these loose ends that he was creating and in many ways the anti-climatic reveals were to simply go "we need to fix this before it just gets far too messy"

I mean imagine if in A New Hope that George Lucas had crammed in questions like "Who is Lukes father? who is Lukes sister? Did Obi-Wan kill Anakin? who REALLY is Darth Vader?" Sounds great until you realised half of those questions George Lucas didn't even know at the time.

Main thing I blame Disney for is the weird decision to split the new trilogy between what was originally going to be three different writers and directors. How are you meant to have a consistent story?

Also with Disney trying to do the Marvel treatment on StarWars but with obviously nowhere near the amount of planning that went into the MCU. In their attempts to simulate Marvel they went more DC.

 

[The End Narrator]

You just said Disney doesn't understand how to make Star Wars films by evoking the same ideas and feelings that the original Star Wars gave to their audiences in the 70s, 80s, 90s and 00s which if we translate the 'I didn't like these new films' gibberish you just said means: they make Star Wars films.

You don't like the new films because the main character is a Mary Sue and Luke Skywalker was taken in a different direction than what you wanted. Everything else about the Last Jedi and the Force Awakens are pretty good. In particular the first half hour of the Force Awakens was a lot stronger than A New Hope and the Return of the Jedi first half. The new sequel films are better than the Phantom Menace and definitely the Clone Wars.

Kylo Ren is a fantastic character. Killing Han Solo in the way that they did was impressive and great cinema. Finn is a good character. The bar scene in the Force Awakens was nostalgic and fantastic. The battle at the end of the Force Awakens was better than the Return of the Jedi's battle. Kylo and Rey killing Snoke and his guards was better than Anakin vs. Obi Wan in Revenge of the Sith (my favourite out of all of them.)

Disney have done a better job with Marvel than they did Star Wars but they're still Star Wars films in both the way they are portrayed, how they feel and how they were put together in cinema.

Actually, I don't like the new films because of the lack of depth.

The new female character is indeed, boring. Luke Skywalker essentially went from being "A New Hope" to "I have no idea what I'm doing." Nothing in The Last Jedi or the Force Awakens was cinematically great. To say that the first half-hour of TFA was stronger than A New Hope and RotJ is a bit much if you're comparing the first 30 minutes vs 30 minutes. Atleast I knew what was happening or was awestruck and not confused.

Kylo Ren is not a fantastic character. On the contrary, he is quite the opposite. Killing Han Solo off was no different than the way they killed off Luke and will most likely do with Leia in Episode IX. It's a means to an end in order to move onto the next series of movies without having to tie in the Solo/Skywalker line. Sure, it was dramatic and sad, but I never thought it was great. Finn is a joke, as much as Rose was. Stories made zero sense. Finn in TFA was "I want to abandon my post and leave!" "I want to be a hero!" "First Order is too much, can't do it!" and then somewhere he found his courage and no clue. In the Last Jedi it was some offbeat, made no sense to the overall plot story. In summary, TFA was the same as A New Hope - just for fresher graphics and a slightly altered story.

I can keep picking apart how Disney has done their own way with Star Wars and I'm sure you could defend it, but reality is that there is a vast majority of "non-toxic" fans who do not like the new movies or content. They just aren't happy with the product being pushed out. If you are, great for you!

I don't think, in summary, they're the same Star Wars product we expect to be pushed out from the mind of George Lucas and wouldn't create the same feel as the others did. Disney is in it for pure profit.

 

[The End Narrator]

Also with Disney trying to do the Marvel treatment on StarWars but with obviously nowhere near the amount of planning that went into the MCU. In their attempts to simulate Marvel they went more DC.

This has been echoed across the Internet.

Disney has tried to make Star Wars like Marvel and in essence has pulled a DC move.

I expect in the form of the three new movies, you'll see a reboot of some fashion.

 

[Kixi Rajki]

Rey is vomit. She is disgusting and for the tip. (Rubbish dump for those unfamiliar with Aussie English). Why can’t the new Star Wars movie have some real hot Jedi chicks in it like in Legends. Ie Mara Jade and Jaina Solo. And they all know how to properly use a lightsabre. Umm maybe better that Disney made their own rubbish as they probably would have botched up Mara and Jaina anyway.

 

[Belizarius Krusi]

Yeah, I really dislike the pigeonholing of criticism.

Rey simply suffers from a modern issue with writing women. A consistent problem with a lot of female leads at the moment is they lack weakness because I imagine the writers are worried that weakness might be mistaken as female weakness. They don't want to show her as bad at fighting, in case it's taken as she's bad because she is a woman. Funny enough the being able to kick ass I don't mind, she's a scavenger who has to fight for the best loot for a living. The flying was something they REALLY needed to explain or you know... just make Daemon Poe the pilot.

Han Solo dying, I liked it but reality is it only happened because Harrison Ford just wanted the damn character to die already. I kind of agree that the character just didn't have much purpose after the first movie, other than being really cool.

Kylo Ren would be a better villain but in the second movie, Snoke kicked his ass in the film easily and then Ren only kills Snoke by tricking him. You replaced the MAIN VILLAIN with a less threatening one, one which has been proven to be less powerful.

He is also less threatening because he constantly gets beaten. Darth Vader was a threat because when he showed up, he kicked ass. He was never defeated in a lightsaber fight until RotJ and that upped the stakes. In the third movie where Rey at that stage will be far more trained in the force, is it going to feel amazing seeing her beat Kylo Ren for the third time?

I have warmed to what they tried to do with Luke Skywalker, I just think at the same time it was pulled off poorly. There is a deleted scene in TLJ where after Luke tells Rey to leave, he goes into his hut and has a moment where he's visibly shaken at the news of Han Solo passing away. It adds to the hurt and the guilt that he feels over so much that's happened BUT they deleted that and made sure we had that scene where he's getting milk from that creature. Even Mark Hamil admitted that it was ridiculous they left it out. Taking away those moments means to harder to connect Luke Skywalker in that movie from his previous appearances.

I really wanted a Luke Skywalker who was more active in trying to make amends but I feel like I would of been more open to what I received if it was executed in a way that made it easier to get into where his mind was at. They have deleted scenes where he tries to explain the ideological problems he's found with being Jedi but they got deleted because we needed those little comedy scenes to keep the movie light-hearted.

"Star Wars movies are not all that serious" True... but they were trying to be serious. that's the fundamental problem.

But then blame J.J. Abrams for setting up all this crap but explaining it to nobody, because when the movie came around the Rian Johnson admitted that he didn't know... why Luke Skywalker... would be on that island doing NOTHING. That's a pretty big thing to not go into don't you think?

It also shows the main issue the movies are having with consistency. If a main plot point isn't passed on from one writer to another, you're practically playing that game in English class where you take turn writing paragraphs for a story.