Fatal Fourway: Hulk, Thor, Flash (Wally), Green Lantern (Hal)

[Jak Sandrow]

Not really. He's a spoof on Wolverine and the general mindset of teenagers who read comics for the action and violence, especially during the 90's. He pops up from time to time to make fun of the reader, or to pander to Deadpool fans.

I meant canonically, but yeah, you're right.

Hmm. Deadpool or Lobo? NOT the movie versions....

 

[Tyger Tyger]

@[member="Tyger Tyger"]
Nope, that was in Barry's arsenal as well. I believe that was part of Barts genetic heritage. But yeah I liked him more as Impulse personally. Wally retains my favoritism though.

And that's the problem with the way your vieiwing it. I had to recede partially to acknowledge the fusion of two universes, thus it wouldn't just be as simple as it was in Flashpoint or JLA v Avengers. In a universe of the combined there would be the Speedforce (IE Pietro (quicksilver) would probably be connnected to speedforce as well.), and on mention of them not existing there was no Superman, but was a Kal-L, so your argument there is null. thanks for the discussion so far man, making my thanksgiving interesting. And yes if I read that part right then yeah he did, but Sinestro (like the rest of the corp) has his own galaxies to maintain and also is not the Gren Lantern mentioned in this battle.

Whether it was in Barry's arsenal or not (I don't remember it being so), you're still using Wally, which makes it irrelevant. I'm not even sure Wally can time travel without Cosmic Treadmill anyway.

As evidenced in DCnU, the Green Lantern title is interchangeable between Sinestro and Hal Jordan, as they're basically each other's reflection in the mirror. If Hal's gone (which he wasn't, in Flashpoint. He was just a pilot -- still ol' Hal, though), Sinestro as a good guy still fits the bill. But yeah, you're right. You've specified that it must be Hal and Wally, which leaves only the DC characters open to time-travel attack (if you ignore Hard Time, Soft Time universal laws, of course).

And that's not my problem with the way I'm viewing it. I didn't submit the Speed Force not working in Marvel for the sake of saying it wouldn't work -- I submitted it as proof of the Flash Family and their dependence upon it. The Flashes (save for Barry, who prior to DCnU BECAME the Speed Force) have to work within realms that the Speed Force condones, lest they lose their abilities. They can't just do what they want, especially when it comes to destabilizing this new DC-Marvel fused Multiverse.

And there was a Superman. He was just called Kal-L because he was hidden from the public. It's a name. Again, you're focusing too much on physical stuff, like a name for the public eye. What makes Superman is not the name Superman or Clark Kent. It's something more symbolic and gestalt. One of the big ones? He saves the day. Just like he did in Flashpoint. As established in Infinite Crisis and bolstered in Final Crisis, a DC universe cannot exist without a Superman analog, and the Superman of Earth 1 is literally the crux of the DC Multiverse.


[background=#272727]@[member="Zaiden James-Greyson"][/background]

 

[Matreya]

I'm not sure about Barry, but I know Wally is able to do so without it. I've read Barry can't. And the mark about Barry had nothing to do with my argument, it was to verify your comment that only Bart had the ability.

Were also not just talking about DC characters being in trouble, as we agreed that if the Speedforce existed then so would fixing in time. Thus the Hulk coming to be, but not havingan aacceptable host. Thor being broken etc.

Unless I'm incorrect, Impulses main history was based on him going back to change his own. Thus they are capable of doing what they wish, just as my aforementioned Flashpoint, with Wallys decision. Also, despite the fact that Barry was the essense of the speed force, at one point when it was gone and everyone believed Jay Garrick to be the only Flash left, Wally revealed he still had it's connection. (During the series where Eabord thawn (Professor Zoom) makes the negative speed force or one of those. I'll have to look it up again to verify. Admittedly this may be Barry, but I believe I remember that being Wally.) And again, doing what they want is irrelevant as they are under an absolute mind control.

No, I was replying to your point that someone would fill the role. Despite the fact that Kal-L existed, he did not ever become known to the world as a whole. And in that sense, there doesn't automatically have to be another fill the role of a title. That's what I meant.

 

[Tyger Tyger]

I'm not sure about Barry, but I know Wally is able to do so without it. I've read Barry can't. And the mark about Barry had nothing to do with my argument, it was to verify your comment that only Bart had the ability.

Were also not just talking about DC characters being in trouble, as we agreed that if the Speedforce existed then so would fixing in time. Thus the Hulk coming to be, but not havingan aacceptable host. Thor being broken etc.

Unless I'm incorrect, Impulses main history was based on him going back to change his own. Thus they are capable of doing what they wish, just as my aforementioned Flashpoint, with Wallys decision. Also, despite the fact that Barry was the essense of the speed force, at one point when it was gone and everyone believed Jay Garrick to be the only Flash left, Wally revealed he still had it's connection. (During the series where Eabord thawn (Professor Zoom) makes the negative speed force or one of those. I'll have to look it up again to verify. Admittedly this may be Barry, but I believe I remember that being Wally.) And again, doing what they want is irrelevant as they are under an absolute mind control.

No, I was replying to your point that someone would fill the role. Despite the fact that Kal-L existed, he did not ever become known to the world as a whole. And in that sense, there doesn't automatically have to be another fill the role of a title. That's what I meant.

You're right. It's just hard for them to pinpoint exact positions in space-time through running without the treadmill. But still -- Hard Time.

Anyway, what I'm saying is that they wouldn't spawn in "unacceptable hosts." It's part of the fixed time bit. Like when Booster Gold went back in time to try and save Barbara Gordon from being crippled, and wound up just getting beaten over and over again by the Joker, despite technically way more than capable in taking him out. Whatever you did to Banner in the period of his first Hulk out would likely be regenerated when he Hulked out. Hulk is not to be undone, even if he happened in the 16th century -- when his iconic experiment couldn't exist.

And it's not irrelevant because of the mind control. What I'm saying is that their bad behavior would likely lose them the Speed Force. Barry/Speed Force would simply stop lending him "his speed," and Wally would find himself without powers, like when Zoom stole Inertia's speed and the Rogues then massacred that little punk.

And Kal-L filled his own role. He was still Superman, only without people calling him Superman. You're still focusing on the physical bits too much. It's not about names or power stats. It's about concepts. In DC, there is always Superman in every Universe, whether he's Kal-L, Alexander Luthor, Ultraman, Uberman, Dr. Manhattan, Captain Marvel, or completely nameless. Even in Marvel, there's Hyperion (or Thor, arguably Marvel's Superman-concept inheritor prior to Hyperion's crossing over).

 

[Matreya]

Hmm ok I give you that...hmmm...fine. Using the Treadmill, make a portal to send things to the future (can't remember a canon source other then the newest game.), and shove Hulk in. Boom he appears 2 minutes before the end of time. Wally wins. Time is such an og ability.

Oh ok ok my bad, misunderstood that. But as said I believe I remember Wally having his own experiences where he was conncected when Barry wasnt so I'd have to hope for a similar case, although admittedly it's unlikely.

Dr. Manhattan, Quantum Superman, etc. I get the picture, but that's my point as well. Even though he's there, doesn't mean he is even the "same" in some worlds Clark exists, but is human. In one continuity Thomas Wayne was the one to find Kal-L as an infant and thus Batman was a superman. That's what I was saying, if the temporal flow shifted and changed events, I don't see Hal being the same Lantern and even if he is, he would not be as much a challenge more then likely.

 

[Daxton Bane]

Somehow I don't know how to react to being labelled a Deadpool fan. I mean Deadpool is nice but for me Lobo was anti establishment, he stood against everything that comic industry stood for during his time.

He spat upon collectability, holiday episodes, political correctness, being heroic, being evil. He wasn't the smartest tool in the shed, but he was no slouch either.

He was an interesting character to read, especially when you needed a break from all the seriousness going on.

Of course this is my opinion and yours might differ. So cheers all

 

[Darth Yamato]

Thor had beated the Hulk with just his bare hands. As for Hal saying that his power is beyond their comprehension, That's not true, since Superman had be shown to be more than a match against Green Lantern.

 

[Darth Yamato]

Lobo's essentially the more powerful, darker version of what Superman could have been.

Lobo is not more powerful than Superman.

 

[Darth Yamato]

Your all kind of downplaying Thor here. Thor's strength has been called unlimited. His feats include easily lifting over a million tons without any effort, crumbling Uru into dust, equalling, overpowering and even defeating superhuman opponents as strong and powerful as the Silver Surfer, Namor, Juugernaut, Hercules, Hulk, the Red Hulk, The Sentry, and Gladiator in single combat, lifting the Midgard Serpent, who was large enough to coil around the Earth from head to tail multiple times over and crush it in its grip, overpowering cosmic entities when pressed in battle and physically destroying stars, planets, and moons with only his fists. Partly a feat of strength, Thor overcame the gravity of a Neutron Star, which can reach up to about three times the mass of the sun.
Despite the fact that he always restrains his nigh-infinite strength in fights against mortals, he has proven capable of several acts of vast physical strength, including stalemating an enraged Hulk in battle for hours without tiring at all (despite the fact that the Hulk was constantly increasing in strength every moment) and knocking out a non-enraged Hulk, knocking out Namor with a single blow (despite Namor being fully hydrated and it was raining), defeating Bi-Beast (whose strength is said to equal the Hulk's), overpowering the Red Hulk, nearly rendering the Juggernaut unconscious (after negating his mystical defenses), and defeating both the Thing and an enraged Hulk at once in unarmed combat with only one arm, and one eye.

 

[Matreya]

@[member="Darth Yamato"] on superman being a match for GL...are we talking old or new comics lmao. In newer ones Hal can make kryptonite radiation. Also,yes Lobo is more powerful. He's been proven to (SURPRISINGLY) be more intelligent than superman, as well as he cannot die at all (superman has) etc. And on the mark of Thors strength, yes he has been shown as immensely strong. Then again superman was shown to sneeze a solar system away. What ive been attemptingb is to keep it all up to date (after each comics reboots) and since the newer ultimate marvels etc, Thor was kind of (horribly in my opinion) robbed of greatness. Since the reboots he has been shown to have a max strength of a couple hundred tons, hell since the reboots Thor has actually been shown flying with needin Mjolnir.

 

[Darth Yamato]

@[member="Darth Yamato"] on superman being a match for GL...are we talking old or new comics lmao. In newer ones Hal can make kryptonite radiation. Also,yes Lobo is more powerful. He's been proven to (SURPRISINGLY) be more intelligent than superman, as well as he cannot die at all (superman has) etc. And on the mark of Thors strength, yes he has been shown as immensely strong. Then again superman was shown to sneeze a solar system away. What ive been attemptingb is to keep it all up to date (after each comics reboots) and since the newer ultimate marvels etc, Thor was kind of (horribly in my opinion) robbed of greatness. Since the reboots he has been shown to have a max strength of a couple hundred tons, hell since the reboots Thor has actually been shown flying with needin Mjolnir.

@[member="Zaiden James-Greyson"] In the New 52, Superman was fighting both Hal and Batman at the same time and was wining. They had to call the Flash, and even than Superman gained the upper hand against them, and Batman had to step in and talk to Superman. As for Thor, I have not seen any newer Thor comics so maybe he was made weaker.

 

[Tyger Tyger]

@[member="Zaiden James-Greyson"] In the New 52, Superman was fighting both Hal and Batman at the same time and was wining. They had to call the Flash, and even than Superman gained the upper hand against them, and Batman had to step in and talk to Superman. As for Thor, I have not seen any newer Thor comics so maybe he was made weaker.

Thor actually seems stronger, these days -- like Marvel's finally letting him step into the role of their Superman.

Fact of the matter is, anybody in this thread who hasn't been reading Infinity actually hates comics.

FACT.

 

[Evad]

Hulk. It's fairly simple given the premise. They are meant to battle to the death. Hulk will grow increasingly angry, and thus stronger and stronger. He has no upper limit of strength, and has on occasion rocked Thor's world. With no restraint, and no pulled punches, he will take everything they throw at him, and just feed off it in blind rage.

Wally has speed, but don't count Hulk out for speed as well. Even without the ability to counter, Wally can't do enough damage to take the Hulk out, eventually he will tire whereas the Hulk will not. His stamina doesn't have bounds once he gets angry.

GL's power is of will, and he might have enough will to match Hulk's rage, but his cannot sustain forever, and must recharge. Hulk continually recharges.

Thor's hammer might prove an obstacle, but in the Ultimate incarnation, Hulk picked up Thor's hammer and chucked it right back at him.

 

[Matreya]

@[member="Evad"] Wally...can't...do damage? The man runs faster then the speed of light...but won't do damage....at that speed he could crush supermans skull and in a few continuations (1,000,000 legion or whatever it's called) Flash was stated to not even need to go full speed to make S-Man bleed. Thus, I doubt he wouldn't hurt him, considering Wally is the fastest flash. And GL has been shown to take down demi-gods of the DC universes (lol meaning they actually did something (Thor excluded no gods really did anything. A few did, but it's so far and in between it's outrageous) ) and that combined with Hals unnatural will power, that's a devastating level of strength.

 

[Darth Yamato]

Hulk. It's fairly simple given the premise. They are meant to battle to the death. Hulk will grow increasingly angry, and thus stronger and stronger. He has no upper limit of strength, and has on occasion rocked Thor's world. With no restraint, and no pulled punches, he will take everything they throw at him, and just feed off it in blind rage.

Wally has speed, but don't count Hulk out for speed as well. Even without the ability to counter, Wally can't do enough damage to take the Hulk out, eventually he will tire whereas the Hulk will not. His stamina doesn't have bounds once he gets angry.

GL's power is of will, and he might have enough will to match Hulk's rage, but his cannot sustain forever, and must recharge. Hulk continually recharges.

Thor's hammer might prove an obstacle, but in the Ultimate incarnation, Hulk picked up Thor's hammer and chucked it right back at him.

If the Flash was running fast enough, the Flash could destroy a Planet.

 

[Darth Yamato]

@[member="Evad"] Wally...can't...do damage? The man runs faster then the speed of light...but won't do damage....at that speed he could crush supermans skull and in a few continuations (1,000,000 legion or whatever it's called) Flash was stated to not even need to go full speed to make S-Man bleed. Thus, I doubt he wouldn't hurt him, considering Wally is the fastest flash. And GL has been shown to take down demi-gods of the DC universes (lol meaning they actually did something (Thor excluded no gods really did anything. A few did, but it's so far and in between it's outrageous) ) and that combined with Hals unnatural will power, that's a devastating level of strength.

I'm pretty sure since Barry came back from the dead, he had surpassed Wally as the fastest flash.

 

[Darth Yamato]

Thor actually seems stronger, these days -- like Marvel's finally letting him step into the role of their Superman.

Fact of the matter is, anybody in this thread who hasn't been reading Infinity actually hates comics.

FACT.

No, it's not fact. I have never been read infinity and I don't hate comics.