Force User Rank Tweak

[Fatty]

So I just read through most of the first page of Ra Vizlas suggestion to rid the force user ranks requirements and it got me thinking of a compromise. Now I apologize if this idea was already shared in that thread, but I'm going to share my idea just in case it wasn't, while I'm thinking of it.

• Proposal: Keep the Force Rank requirements, but give people the option to become a permanent Knight.

That way the people who want to skip being a padawan can, but with the caveat that they can never become a Master. It also doesn't hurt the people who work through the ranks from the bottom up, because Knight is just a temporary phase for them, and they will inevitably surpass any knight provided they have the skills and respectable attitude necessary for it.

I can already see how this might get confusing between who is a 'ranked' Knight vs a 'forever' Knight, but perhaps there could be an altered tag that could distinguish them. Or perhaps more simply, Knights moving up to master would just need to show their promotion to knight from padawan, etc..

What do you all think of this? Does this add needless complexity to a tried and true system, or does it provide a unique addition to something that could use a mild shake up?

Let me know below

 

[Titan]

Interesting...

 

[Julius Sedaire]

Minimal gains, much risk. I'd say nah.

 

[Undin Jaii Kryze]

[member="Fatty"] I will give this suggestion a +1 , but I would like to make some "adjustements" as to a player who chooses to be a forever Knight must shows their roleplays/trainings to unlock new Force abilities (by pleeding to RPJs) while "not forever" will be taught the techniquies by their Masters or by reading holocrons and must link the thread where it shows them learning it on their profiles.

 

[Nyxie]

I like the train of thought, but a) it becomes increasingly difficult to enforce and b) there would be a massive influx of knights of people who are content to neither wait for their story nor achieve it.

 

[Grrwunhoooll Agaburry]

cool idea. How would you tell who is a forever knight and who not tho? [member="Fatty"]

 

[Aram Kalast]

Easy...brand 4EVA ALONE on their foreheads...

 

[Netherworld]

[member="Undin Jaii"]

Chaos doesn't regulate or keep lists of Force powers/abilities available by rank or character. It's regulated by common sense and respect.

 

[Songbird]

I don't see the point, really.
It's something we could do, but why is the real question.
It doesn't change anything, really; it just seems pointless, to me.

 

[Cathbodua]

It would be interesting I have seen some characters who aren't about the advancements so they are forever padawan/apprentices/knights but it would be hard to keep track of because what if they decide to change their mind? Or just come in as a transfer knight. They wouldn't have a promotion thread/post to link to to show. Not much input for it though I do like the idea of a forever tag in case you don't want to keep turnign down promotion or explaining
why aren't you promoted yet?" Though that can be done as a small note in a thread tracker or even a tag made by [member="Kyra Sol"]

 

[Fatty]

[member="Julius Sedaire"], I honestly don't see very much risk at all honestly. If you're worried about abuse of the rank system, that already exists and is dealt with now the same way it'd be dealt with here. Besides, it's not like we're giving everyone free reign to be an unlimited master of the force... they are mid-tier at best. The gains would be most relevant to the people who go through multiple generations of characters, and it gives the people the freedom to play different kinds of characters that don't make as much sense starting from the bottom. It's a happy medium of freedom and balance.

Besides, if you don't take risks to improve something, to at least experiment, it'll inevitably stagnate. So, food for thought

[member="Undin Jaii"], I appreciate the idea but as Netherworld mentioned, it's a step up in complexity that under current guidelines is essentially unnecessary.

[member="Cheshire"], you make a good point but I think the solution to regulating this may be less of a headache as you might think. Additionally, the way you word your last sentence puts on the assumption that people create characters or write stories solely to advance to something as marginal as 'the next tag'. The presence of NFU's and their long and complex careers in multiple avenues clearly suggests that ones 'power level' in the force does not present a clear indicator of a characters growth. As such, while I agree with you that some will be like you describe, most will not be. Hell, that's true of people in general.

[member="Saverok"], well, heh, something akin to what [member="Aram Kalast"] said but much less demeaning. It could be as simple as a standard knight tag for their alignment with some small alteration like a border color or some other notation. Perhaps even more simple, leave no distinction at all. There would still be a thread trail that would prove whether or not they started as a padawan or not if they ever tried to pull the wool over the eyes of the RPJ's and get 'illegally' promoted to Master. They already have to look at all or most of a Knights threads anyway.

[member="Songbird"], it'd change an awful lot actually. There were multiple comments in the suggestion thread I mentioned that talked about veteran writers constantly going back to square one with their characters and having to 'prove' themselves over and over again. In other cases, people would create old grizzled veterans that, no matter what, must start at padawan. Even if realistically they would have had their entire lives to learn from It (assuming they always knew about it, or for most of their lives). There are numerous ways this could change the freedoms of being a force user, while at the same time keeping them in check. The point, and the why of your queation, would be to expand the diversity of characters to fit more of a writers desires without granting him or her so much freedom that the likelihood of abuse sky-rockets.

You may think this is pointless, but there an awful lot of people who could benefit from a change similar to this.

[member="Cathbodua"], you make an excellent point about those who later change their mind. In the case of a transfer Knight, the story is different. They are starting their because that's who they were somewhere else, and staff approved of them being that rank here. They would be free to pursue master at their leisure.

For the 'Forever' Knights however that decide "Nah, you know what, I want that master tag now', we could do one of two things:

1. Tell them to depower to padawan first, and let them ascend like everyone else.
2. Let them undergo a far more rigorous and harsh judgement for a promotion than is standard for everyone else... perhaps even dependant on a challenge they must complete and be judged for on top of that.

 

[Ket Van-Derveld]

I miss the 5 Rank system. You kids these days have it too easy as it is, in my opinion. You want Knight? WORK for it. You want Master? SERIOUSLY work for it.

*shakes his cane* Damn whippersnappers! Get off my lawn!

 

[Ra Vizsla]

[member="Ket Van-Derveld"]

By seriously work for it, you mean wait a year because everyone at the top can't see you past their noses?

That era was broken and, jokes aside - since I know you were joking - we all knew it. This isn't an MMO. No one should have to grind endlessly. Most ranks were given in that era because of who you knew and how they perceived you, not on merit or experience. I personally don't care who is Master, who is Knight, who is whatever. Play what you want.

But let it be organic. All this "insta-Knight" stuff is ridiculous for new players. Every new player not transferring should be a Padawan. Should have that experience. Whether they want it or not, because often they don't know what they want, they just want to be equal.

They're just too inexperienced to realize we're already all equal, regardless of rank or title.

We're just two hands on a keyboard, man. Writers should focus more on pinging their factions to be more proactive on promotions and focus less on asking Staff for hand-me-outs.

 

[Micah tol Powl]

For the 'Forever' Knights however that decide "Nah, you know what, I want that master tag now', we could do one of two things:

1. Tell them to depower to padawan first, and let them ascend like everyone else.
2. Let them undergo a far more rigorous and harsh judgement for a promotion than is standard for everyone else... perhaps even dependant on a challenge they must complete and be judged for on top of that.

Your proposal just seems to add more complexity to what is, essentially, a very simply system that (in my opinion) people just over-think all the time.

If someone comes in, at whatever rank they may be, and puts work into roleplaying and developing that character, they should be given credit for that, which is why I specifically disagree with the first point in the quoted section above.

As for the second, I'd point out that we already have a rather fickle promotion system as is. The requirements necessary to merit a Master vote in the SSC may not be the same as in the First Order or Kathol Outback, because those are different groups, with different FOs, who have different opinions about what a Master is, should be, or the work they should have to show to get there. Adding a test or some other project only further obfuscates a process that's already rather undefined across the board.

Overall, as much as I respect your proposal... I'm going to say nope.

 

[Ket Van-Derveld]

[member="Ra Vizsla"]

This is the best thing I could have through to write on the topic. You knocked it out the park here. I agree 100%.

Also, it took me 7 years to get to Master. LOL. Who I knew didn't mean jack squat.

 

[Grrwunhoooll Agaburry]

#AbolishRanks

#Ranksdontmeananything

 

[Nyxie]

the way you word your last sentence puts on the assumption that people create characters or write stories solely to advance to something as marginal as 'the next tag'. The presence of NFU's and their long and complex careers in multiple avenues clearly suggests that ones 'power level' in the force does not present a clear indicator of a characters growth.

I meant you'll see an explosion of "pick-up-and-go" characters for those ideas where people want to just take off with a solid concept rather than make a character with a progressing story. They'd get to play at the point in their character's life cycle where they want, but not much else. I'm not saying for every character this would be the case, but it makes it much more accessible.

Like test-driving a car. Or a free cap start slot in an MMO (let's be real, we know nobody actually uses those to roll a primary).

 

[Fatty]

[member="Ra Vizsla"] alright sure, I agree everyone should have the experience of going from padawan to master, and the system certainly saves us from a lot of grief. But every single time you create a character after having gone through the process at least once? I'm not opposed to going through it all again, but there should be some flexibility for those who can be 'trusted' as in, everyone else who isn't new and had gone through it already.

Shouldn't they have that choice? You yourself said you didn't care what rank people are personally (cuz when it comes down to it, we're just two hands on a keyboard as you put it), so what's the matter with giving us the option after we've proved we're 'responsible' enough to be a knight?

[member="Boo Chiyo"], you make a good point and I agree with you. I still feel however that despite the increase in complexity it could be worth the benefits of freedom afforded to a writer through a change like this.

Additionally, maybe we need a more standardized 'test' for Master judgements, considering the current unequal process of judgement you pointed out is, in a sense, rather inconsistent (at least on paper, I have no idea personally what its like to reach masterhood in different factions other than the Primeval... who were not very good about promoting members if you remember)

@Chesire, you make another solid point, but maybe there are writers out there who need a more solid concept to get going. Or at the very least, would appreciate having the option to play as one. Just because something starts solid, does not mean it can't progress.

Besides, what's the harm in experimenting with the idea? If it gets out of hand... kill it.

 

[Ket Van-Derveld]

[member="Saverok"]

#YouObviouslyDontGetIt

#GoBackToTheBegining

 

[Ra Vizsla]

How long did it take you guys to go from Padawan-level to Knight, here, at Chaos? I don't care about other forums.