GE vs SJ - Hex 27-AJ Invasion Live!

[Lina Renning]

[member="Jessica Med-Beq"]

Retaliation is not remotely in line with the Jedi way. It's one thing if the faction wants to take a more morally grey stance, but if we want to stay on the map as a Jedi faction, then we have no business declaring invasions for the sake of payback.

Regardless - a fleeting-based invasion is always going to put people off. If we want to get around this, a suggestion would be to come up with several non-fleeting objectives to give members something to build off.

(As always, take what I say with a grain of salt. I rarely partake in invasions, and there may be things I've missed.)

 

[Stephanie Swail]

Nice to see a debate going.

As I stand as current FO, my view is that unless there is a real logical, crucial reason for us to, I don't want the SJ launching a retaliation invasion.

It's just not the Jedi way, and we've worked hard to make this as 100% Light as possible for those wanting to be the Jedi of the movies/books with no easy way to turn Dark Side or be Dark Jedi etc, so I must keep it that way and go by our ethics. If we can't do that, we aren't core Jedi!

If we ping-pong invasions back and forward, we will come across as a limited Faction with a narrow minded view, and I don't want that for us. If people want to prey on us as a target or if we are deemed boring, or weak, or limited or whatever, then let them. I just want to make sure we keep on using our greatest resource - you lot of talented and creative writers.

Major or minor, we will still have that and nobody can take that away.

We just learn from this and move forward. Try new RP that challenges us to "learn" new skills and flesh out our characters. I am eager to do some fighter piloting to help defend or escort or protect etc in future fleeting threads. It's worth a shot!

Even at the Battle Of Geonosis, the Jedi took their army to rescue their own and prevent a droid army launching to eradicate systems. They went for one base of operations, not to take a planet or system. I can do that, but I can't invade just because of the sake of it.

Hope that makes sense?

As always, my PMs and Discord is always open!

 

[Kaiza Pawaro]

I shamefully admit I could have posted with this character, but that one rule has never occured to me, thus I simply wrote my alt that joined as an ally. Sorry about that.

I believe we lost because people were busy and unable to post. The college/school's starting for many, two invasions and one event going on at the same time - hard to find the time to write something. Yes, some can argue that's brilliant tactic on the GE's part, purposely launching invasions when people are OOCly busy. But given the site is about roleplay and not about outsmarting others through specific rules and their interpretations, I dare to say it was an underhanded move.

For kark's sake, people. It's about writing stories, not about technical victories through a clause. Anyone saying otherwise sort of showes they don't care about story or writing, but solely about winning through any means necessary. And that's just not cool. I looked forward to some great PvP action.

In my opinion, the best course of action would be striking back at the Empire. Some might say it goes against the Jedi ways, but I disagree - it is perfectly reasonable for Jedi to strike back given the enemy has been ICly targeting civilians and indiscriminately killing everyone they found in SJO space. Whether by destroying civilian transports full of medical supplies or refugees or the attempted extermination of the Xi Charrians, it would be against the Jedi way to not attack the GE. It is not retaliation or revenge we seek - it is about preventing the GE from attacking again and eliminating the threat they pose to the galaxy and those we protect.

 

[Valae Heavenshield]

In my opinion, the best course of action would be striking back at the Empire. Some might say it goes against the Jedi ways, but I disagree - it is perfectly reasonable for Jedi to strike back given the enemy has been ICly targeting civilians and indiscriminately killing everyone they found in SJO space. Whether by destroying civilian transports full of medical supplies or refugees or the attempted extermination of the Xi Charrians, it would be against the Jedi way to not attack the GE. It is not retaliation or revenge we seek - it is about preventing the GE from attacking again and eliminating the threat they pose to the galaxy and those we protect.

I think most people here know my feelings about invasions. I play a character that seriously dislikes fighting, and is not skilled at it herself. But that said, I have to agree with Kaiza. We're not saying that the SJO will become warmongers -- that's not what we want. It's not about revenge, it's not about the fact that OOC they invaded us, so we must do the same to retaliate.

The GE started off the Charros invasion by attacking one of our planets. We can defend our space all we like, but will we stand idly by as the citizens there are terrorized? If these empires are truly looking to extinguish the light and end all Jedi, should we just sit back and let it happen? Just some thoughts.

If we're going to continue to take the brunt of DS attacks, we might as well do something... or perhaps consider dropping out of the map game altogether by going minor.

Edit: Sorry -- I know this is getting off topic. So, to add in my feedback about the GE Invasion... I feel bad that I did not participate. However, I didn't wish to do so due to the OOC hostilities that seemed to surround the event.

 

[Thurion Heavenshield]

Timing sucked, but that's how the game is played.

GE only neutralised the targeted hex. We can just dom it right back, no harm done.

As for whether it is alright for a Jedi faction to invade another faction, I will follow my Grandmaster in whatever she decides (along with our FO, of course).

 

[Aiwaz Khath]

"We are keepers of the peace, no soldiers."
Jedi Master Mace Windu​

We should consider this quote with deep contemplation. "Keepers of the peace." Does this mean to be a pacifist? To avoid conflict where possible? Yes. As Jedi, we must do our utmost to ensure peace reigns over war. But what if the things we deem precious and sacred are at risk? Should we idly stand by and allow it to happen? If people under our protection are oppressed, are in danger, should we look away? This idea can equally be applied to those planets we have had no stake in before, but have been pressed under the thumb of oppresive powers...

As Jedi, sometimes keeping the peace requires being soldiers, despite how much we don't want to admit it. This does not make us warmongers. We ought not do this for revenge. We ought not do this for glory. It is for duty. It is for love. We are not warriors. We are liberators. We are protectors.

But consider, if we were to fight back, could we do it sustainably? We would be taking many risks here. We must have the support of everyone in our Order, and rally the lost souls to protect that which is sacred. As Arisa said, we must work on building new relationships, new alliances. Otherwise, we will fail completely in our goals, should we decide to go that way. We risk it leading to ruin.

So we are at an ultimatum, then:

Do we commence retaliation, knowing the risks could be far greater than we anticipate, but with the payoff resulting in a positive future for all involved? Will we be living up to our true names as keepers of the peace and liberators of oppression? Or will we merely intensify destruction if our plans turn to ash?

Or, do we stand, defend, wait for what comes? Do we hope that we can withstand the inevitable oncoming storm, and pray it is not further antagonised?

We must be prepared regardless of whatever choice we make.

I, personally, support Arisa, Kaiza and Valae in favor of retaliation. BUT we must be fully prepared and understand the risks.

 

[Kal Visna]

[member="Lina Renning"]

Nobody said anything about retaliation, it is the most logical thing to do ICly, we are at war and in war you cannot just defend and hope the enemy leaves, when the rule "Jedi exist only to defend, never to attack" was in place, the jedi still attacked in order to defend the people from darkness, see Geonosis, they went in with an army of clones, Revan's battles against the mandalorians.

Ultimately one could argue that jedi are "Protectors of the galaxy" and it is their duty to do something against the dark side factions out there. ^_^

 

[Thurion Heavenshield]

If I may bring up an event some of you might recall:

Back during my tenure as Grandmaster, there was a period of time when SJO came under constant attack and harassment from the then-revitalised Mandalorian faction under Vilaz Munin's leadership. Following the travesty that was the Korriban invasion where a good portion of the capital was bombed from orbit (by one of our own), the Mandalorians decided they were the ones to retaliate on behalf of the inhabitants of Korriban by launching endless skirmishes and raids on our worlds. It was entirely unprovoked and basically just done to spite us OOCly.

As you might imagine, practically our entire memberbase got incredibly sick of it. Myself included.

But when suddenly planet Mandalore came under terrorist attack by one of their own, Thurion offered ICly the Mandalorians our aid to help evacuate and treat the wounded, which was flat-out refused by Vilaz. That decision to not accept our aid took virtually all heat off SJO and all eyes instead turned to the Mandalorian leadership and how incredibly dumb said decision was, while also greatly improving our image on the site.

I don't see the Mandalorian faction on the map anymore.

Killing with kindness is a real thing, just so you know. Going on the offensive is not the only way to win a war.

*deposits two cents*