Invasion of Roche discussion

[Popo]

[member="Barrien Siegfried"]
To be fair, if I remember correctly, IC'ly the Mandos and Pubs have had periods where both jointly controlled Roche. Also, there are periods in history where a nation has had to attack locations in its own territory to quickly repel forces that managed to get a foothold, albeit briefly.

Besides... It's RP. Does it really frigging matter at the end of the day?

 

[Kamon's OOC]

Yes and no. Doesnt matter to the RP at hand, but matters to me as I and others spent time getting it back after Contruum was lost. Roche has been fought over a lot, but recently it has been Republic controlled. Of course we have also had peaceful relations with the Mandos until recently as well.

 

[Popo]

[member="Barrien Siegfried"]
Depends on which Mandos you ask, really. They've been itching to invade for a while. During my time as Pub FO I'd get occasional messages on invading from the Mando FO that I managed to dissuade politely. In one case, before I became FO, I had to peacefully hand a planet over to them in an invasion setting so that a war could be avoided lol

 

[Kamon's OOC]

[member="Popo"]
You kind of grow stagnant when there isnt a bad guy nearby to crush, I guess? I dunno, but we hadnt sought in anti-mandalorian activity. Some of them managed to worm into fighting against us alongside the Sith, which caused tension anongst us, but that was it.

 

[Popo]

[member="Barrien Siegfried"]
Mercs are mercs. Thats just how it is. I remember one of our guys looked to hire on to the Pubs, but was turned down despite being highly qualified and able in order to bring in a different FU. So, he signed on with the other side next time. In Mando culture, mercing is a normal thing. When two sides meet, its usually treated as nothing personal, just business. Which is why when Pub leadership at the time demanded the clans turn over mercs fighting for the OS, we mostly shrugged and explained why we couldn't, and wouldn't, do that.

 

[Kamon's OOC]

[member="Popo"]
Which is another reason I dont like the Mandalorian culture. You all do whatever you want, and expect no consequences. You have a Mandalore, but he or she has no actual control over his or her people. You are all loose canons. How is that fun? Or, whats the purpose of a leader who cant actually lead except in the brief situations where you all agree?

 

[Jaccer Ramirez]

[member="Mantic Dorn"]

Where do you need me?

 

[Popo]

[member="Barrien Siegfried"]
Not exactly. Let me explain a bit more thoroughly.

Mandos have a huge amount of freedoms, true, but we don't run around thinking we can do things with impunity. Most of the time, we handle things internally when needed. Other times, we just acknowledge that so-and-so did something stupid and let things run their course with the legal systems they did the actions in. Mandalorian justice usually works like the Old West: it comes from the barrel of a gun usually. Not always, but usually.

Had the Republic instead asked to see if they could send law enforcement to retrieve the individual in question, they may have gotten a better response. Or better yet, put up a bounty.

As for the Mand'alor, during peacetime he or she operates as a political figurehead. The true power lies with the Clans. During war it lies with the Mand'alor who acts like a commander in chief. Sure, an individual can tell the Mand'alor no, but they usually have a good reason.

Mando culture is hugely detailed and has many layers. It's not cut and dry like most think.

 

[Kamon's OOC]

So basicaally you cant turnbthem over yourselves, but we are free to hunt them down? I guess that makes a bit of sense. If said individual is in Mandalorian territory, would we have to deal with people not in their clan trying to stop us?

Im just trying to get a better grasp on the reasoning for Mandalorians disliking a faction that left them largely alone.
[member="Popo"]

 

[Harmon Tardai]

[member="Popo"]

With the risk of derailing this discussion slightly, I haven't done much research on Mando culture, though I was thinking of having one of my characters start to go Mando a bit. From what I've seen, they are a very honor bound, militaristic culture. My question, then, is one of how they can justify invading someone who has been an ally for a while. Looking back just a bit, I've seen Pub forces helping Mandos defend and take objectives and Mandos helping the Pubs the same way. I've even found some threads where Mando and Pub forces trained together.

Aren't they essentially breaking their word and besmirching their honor by invading Roche? Will this make it open season between Pub and Mando?

 

[Krenis Skirata]

[member="Niall OOC"]

It depends. The invasion is primarily economic in its IC motivation from Larraq. The clans have gotten hit pretty badly in the war with the Primeval, losing Wayland in the center of their territory and having a drop in activity leading to a faction event similar to Red Dawn. As it stands, they lost access to phrik when they lost Wayland, with Roche being jointly controlled and partnered as their last access to the material. In an ICly later thread, when the Death Watch attack Mandalore, they go after the beskar mines. With corporations and assets being nationalized, the Mandalorian invasion is an attempt to protect their interests should the Republic violate earlier agreements and seize Mandalorian people or materials. The other thing is that thinking of them as based around government doesn't work quite so well. They're more of a very large, extended cultural family, with clan leaders holding most of the authority and family being the most important thing to them. Republic seizure of their assets threatens their family, so they move to prevent that.

 

[Popo]

[member="Barrien Siegfried"]
Depends on what the FO says ooc, really. Not a call I can make, but it goes over better IC and OOC to ask rather than to demand. As for who would oppose, like I said, its kinda like the Wild West. You may just have to deal with them alone or you could be up against them, their clam, and their friends. Best to set it up ooc before hand to avoid miscommunications.

[member="Niall OOC"]
It all falls down to the clans. Remember, in peacetime the Mand'alor is just a political figurehead. The power rests with the clans. Seen Braveheart? The scene where the Brits hire on the Irish mercs to fight the Scotts? They're all related and the Irish swap sides, but think along those lines. Just because they're all Mandos doesn't mean they all think alike.

Clan Vereen may side with the Republic to fight the GA, but not the OS. Meanwhile, clan Skirata will happily side with the SSC, but outright refuse to help the GR. At the same time, maybe Clan Betna is happy to help any faction as a merc for the right price while Clan Ordo is content to sit back and just be bounty hunters and ignore the galaxy as a whole.

You'll notice that not all clans are fighting right now and not all members of those clans that are fighting are present. Before all of this, the clans were split on going to war and had been for a while. It's just one of those situations where not all the clan heads were on the same side of the fence and it took a catalyst to trigger the fighting.

... TL;DR - it kinda makes more sense if you look at it like a more rough and tumble Senate, if you turn your head and squint lol

 

[Tydeus of Tion]

I'll just field this question at large.

Why/how are Keira Ticon and the Spaarti clones still part of the GR?

 

[Harmon Tardai]

[member="Popo"] [member="Krenis Skirata"]

OK, using the clan thing squared it for me.

I still think this action may have fairly bad consequences for the clans as a whole. They don't really seem to have many allies, but I can now understand things better.

 

[Popo]

[member="Niall OOC"]
As a faction, perhaps, but the clans often have powerful friends and allies in many places. Really depends on the clans in question.

 

[Harmon Tardai]

[member="Popo"]

*nods*

 

[Kamon's OOC]

[member="Popo"]
Makes sense, I guess.

Still dont like Mandos, though.

 

[Mantic Dorn]

[member="Mantic Dorn"]

Where do you need me?

I think Nickel One is a good starting place right now. [member="Ali Hadrix"] is there so it makes sense for a strong military presence.

Either go here and find a pvp partner,

Or just make an apearance and start preparing for deployment where you are needed the most.

 

[Mantic Dorn]

I'll just field this question at large.

Why/how are Keira Ticon and the Spaarti clones still part of the GR?

I dont know about [member="Keira Ticon"] or what she has done that would make her not part of the GR? If there is something there I think its best she gives her own reasons.

The clones that serve Gen are no longer part of the GR. However, there are other clones (yes, the affair is messy) and some of Gens clones I belive have RPd abandoning her and returned to the Rep army. The whole affair/plot is so hard to keep track off that some just gave up on it and for the sake of my own sanity I have not kept track of everyone in this plot.

Then we have the time hopping that makes it all even more confusing. We all live in several multiple universes atm it seems. But what the heck... No one cared before the invasion so why bother now?

 

[Tydeus of Tion]

Keira Ticon literally oversaw Genevieve Lasedri's executions. If Lasedri was palpatine, Ticon was her Vader.

Not saying this as a personal attack against the writer or anything at all like that. Just genuinely curious. Especially since she uses the Dark Side.