Star Wars Roleplay: Chaos
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Scruffy Lookin’ Nerfherder
I clicked Other for a couple.
1. I think sometimes the posts in invasions get overlong, especially when there are those mega intro posts where people have to describe their character in all their resplendent gear. I'm guilty of it myself on occasion, but reading through twenty posts like that before anything is even happening gets tedious. So, shorter intro posts.
2. I think the flood of replies are off putting. It's hard to keep up with the speed. Often times by the time I click post four other people have already replied. It's usually why I tend to join invasions halfway through, so that they have slowed down enough that I'm not overwhelmed by them.
1. I think sometimes the posts in invasions get overlong, especially when there are those mega intro posts where people have to describe their character in all their resplendent gear. I'm guilty of it myself on occasion, but reading through twenty posts like that before anything is even happening gets tedious. So, shorter intro posts.
2. I think the flood of replies are off putting. It's hard to keep up with the speed. Often times by the time I click post four other people have already replied. It's usually why I tend to join invasions halfway through, so that they have slowed down enough that I'm not overwhelmed by them.
Valiens Nantaris
Head Admin
More fleeting and combat which makes it feel like an invasion...not twenty people hitting each other with Force powers, and the fate of a planet being decided by someone getting mildly injured.
Shadow Hand
^
There seems to be often less of a focus on an actual invasion and moreso on duels because its what is commonly preferred I've seen. In reality the fate of an entire invasion isn't revolving around 1-2 individuals, when a good battalion or two of soldiers capturing the senate in the municipal building should mean more than sending a Jedi Master retreating.
There seems to be often less of a focus on an actual invasion and moreso on duels because its what is commonly preferred I've seen. In reality the fate of an entire invasion isn't revolving around 1-2 individuals, when a good battalion or two of soldiers capturing the senate in the municipal building should mean more than sending a Jedi Master retreating.
Yvette Dusong
The Painter
Just as as Valiens noted, more fleeting and combat between NPC units / squads / divisions / armies would be lovely to see, have people play around with the notion of logistics, supply routes, proper chain of command, unit morale, propaganda, FOB's, encampments, garrisons, and the like more often would be a blast to read. Some extra attention given to fleeting, transportation, travel lanes, and general commanding would be also be swell. God knows Cyrus could use some friends in his intimidating play-mat known as Fleets vs Fleets.
And this may just be me and my inexplicable sadism towards characters I write, but more capturing / death would definitely be interesting to see. Keeps the stakes high as well, which is always nice. I fully understand why people shy away from it and don't blame anybody, but if I ever get in a position where one of my characters can be indiscriminately killed and you got no real reason to abstain, you better not be leaving me hanging here.
Also, being the anti-thesis of Rusty in a way, I ain't gonna complain if I see a bit more salt flowing. More of a joke answer than anything but I'd lie if I said it ain't some entertaining stuff to watch unfold, long as it ain't going overboard and is kept within respectable limits / kept merely to banter. Show's people are dedicated and truly care about this stuff, not that they just take it in stride and jot it down as another thread to add onto the pile-list towards promotion.
And this may just be me and my inexplicable sadism towards characters I write, but more capturing / death would definitely be interesting to see. Keeps the stakes high as well, which is always nice. I fully understand why people shy away from it and don't blame anybody, but if I ever get in a position where one of my characters can be indiscriminately killed and you got no real reason to abstain, you better not be leaving me hanging here.
Also, being the anti-thesis of Rusty in a way, I ain't gonna complain if I see a bit more salt flowing. More of a joke answer than anything but I'd lie if I said it ain't some entertaining stuff to watch unfold, long as it ain't going overboard and is kept within respectable limits / kept merely to banter. Show's people are dedicated and truly care about this stuff, not that they just take it in stride and jot it down as another thread to add onto the pile-list towards promotion.
Netherworld
Well-Known Member
While I get the want for realism (believe me, I do), in practice I doubt it'll ever be feasible.
In an invasion thread, you've got anywhere from 20 to 60 people posting with considerable frequency. Even if you take into account that not all of them are going to be on the same objective, you're still left with a sizable number of people fighting each other.
Every single instance of NPC combat that I've seen done in invasions has been an utter, complete mess. It's breeding grounds for all of those nice things that [member="Rusty"] listed out and I won't bother repeating. Having been involved in judging the outcome of four such invasions (Wayland, Ord Mirit, Contruum, Balmorra), I can say with no small amount of certainty that it was always the NPC objective that was most trouble to judge. When you've got such a huge number of people trying to control troops, machinery, terrain, defences, and Force knows what else, the whole thing is reduced to a mess not worth bothering with.
Fleeting isn't really my territory, but I've seen examples of it proposed and executed with relatively little trouble as compared to NPC combat.
What I'd like to stress here is that the more aspects of a situation opponents try to control at the same time, the crazier it gets. There's a reason many people prefer the uncomplicated task of writing the impact of conflict on a single character. Not to mention that in duels, the peen-measuring contests of who has the baddest tech are relatively limited, whereas fleeting and NPC combat usually see it get out of hand in frustrating, if impressive ways.
That being said, I still have good fun with most invasions. Manaan was hands down the most enjoyable, though looking back it was probably far less so for the people running it.
I'd love to see more story and plot hooks in invasions, and less stats-y and objective-based play. Also, permanently relegating NPCs to background noise would probably save some future FAs a world of headache.
In an invasion thread, you've got anywhere from 20 to 60 people posting with considerable frequency. Even if you take into account that not all of them are going to be on the same objective, you're still left with a sizable number of people fighting each other.
Every single instance of NPC combat that I've seen done in invasions has been an utter, complete mess. It's breeding grounds for all of those nice things that [member="Rusty"] listed out and I won't bother repeating. Having been involved in judging the outcome of four such invasions (Wayland, Ord Mirit, Contruum, Balmorra), I can say with no small amount of certainty that it was always the NPC objective that was most trouble to judge. When you've got such a huge number of people trying to control troops, machinery, terrain, defences, and Force knows what else, the whole thing is reduced to a mess not worth bothering with.
Fleeting isn't really my territory, but I've seen examples of it proposed and executed with relatively little trouble as compared to NPC combat.
What I'd like to stress here is that the more aspects of a situation opponents try to control at the same time, the crazier it gets. There's a reason many people prefer the uncomplicated task of writing the impact of conflict on a single character. Not to mention that in duels, the peen-measuring contests of who has the baddest tech are relatively limited, whereas fleeting and NPC combat usually see it get out of hand in frustrating, if impressive ways.
That being said, I still have good fun with most invasions. Manaan was hands down the most enjoyable, though looking back it was probably far less so for the people running it.
I'd love to see more story and plot hooks in invasions, and less stats-y and objective-based play. Also, permanently relegating NPCs to background noise would probably save some future FAs a world of headache.
L Admin
We briefly brought up Invasions as a Staff topic in the not-so-distant past, but it got debunked because 1) they work, as is, despite varying pessimism and 2) we finally found a concept for Rebellions that we enjoyed.
In that brief conversation, the only idea put forward that I personally enjoyed was to 1) base it more around hexes and 2) split the Invasion up into multiple threads.
Invasions get crowded. If we found an enforceable concept that would alleviate 1) the amount of people spamming a thread that had absolutely nothing to do with each other and 2) focus those threads more on roleplaying than OOC banter/negotiations, I would be incredibly agreeable.
I'm all for bitching about Invasions, but if we're not going to propose solutions... we're not going to get very far.
In that brief conversation, the only idea put forward that I personally enjoyed was to 1) base it more around hexes and 2) split the Invasion up into multiple threads.
Invasions get crowded. If we found an enforceable concept that would alleviate 1) the amount of people spamming a thread that had absolutely nothing to do with each other and 2) focus those threads more on roleplaying than OOC banter/negotiations, I would be incredibly agreeable.
I'm all for bitching about Invasions, but if we're not going to propose solutions... we're not going to get very far.
L Admin
For once, that wasn't aimed at you, Jay.
L Admin
Yeah, that jackhole owes me 30 pieces of silver.
Alor of Clan Solus
Tef you should repo his house to gain the interest bsck
B E A C O N
I'm more for storyline,less for NPC, units, and so on.
Raziel
Dark Jedi Spymaster
All my personal opinion below:Valiens Nantaris said:
The opposite of this. Fleeting and NPC battles are niche, and hard to determine a victor and don't have as much room for personal story development. Most people want to do things with their characters and one on one duelling is just more approachable.
Also for reference, this poll had an interesting set of invasion results from a different set of questions:
http://starwarsrp.net/topic/70548-the-big-invasion-poll/
General outcomes were:
- People who do fleeting want their own thread
- People prefer smaller fleet and NPC battles (1v1 or 2v2)
- There was a general feeling that members weren't involved enough in the say of invasion setups
- People wanted PvE (see note below)
We tried PvE on Lujo and as I expected no one bothered with it very much.
I'm looking forward to the results of this very much!
Raziel
Dark Jedi Spymaster
My other vote for what could be removed: Railroaded objectives
Things with very specific victory conditions that don't give enough freedom for the invasion story to proceed organically.
My second thing would be Faction Admins that bicker over creating objectives, then bicker over victories. Fighting tooth and nail over the result for weeks on end is, in my opinion, doing your members a disservice not working for them. If it's really that close just call it a draw and let the defender keep the planet.
If it becomes a problem I'd be tempted to put forward something like a "Guilty/Not Guilty" system. If a faction refuses to admit it has lost and then the RPJ finds it was obvious they'd lost they can lose another planet! Or maybe if the result gets called within three days of the end both sides get a free Tier upgrade to their next dominion!
Things with very specific victory conditions that don't give enough freedom for the invasion story to proceed organically.
My second thing would be Faction Admins that bicker over creating objectives, then bicker over victories. Fighting tooth and nail over the result for weeks on end is, in my opinion, doing your members a disservice not working for them. If it's really that close just call it a draw and let the defender keep the planet.
If it becomes a problem I'd be tempted to put forward something like a "Guilty/Not Guilty" system. If a faction refuses to admit it has lost and then the RPJ finds it was obvious they'd lost they can lose another planet!
Or maybe if the result gets called within three days of the end both sides get a free Tier upgrade to their next dominion!
Rule of Two
My biggest problem with invasions are the story aspects. Why is this particularly world being targeted? Why are we attacking it? How do we ensure that the world falls / doesn't fall into enemy hands?
I'll use the Republic as an example. One Sith are invading them, Mandalorians are joining in as hired mercs and you add the odd Primeval / Dark Jedi / Sith Lords normally unaffiliated with the OS but joining in the invasion because the Republic losing another world fits in with mutual interests. The first two questions are minor (and don't really fit in with this example) but I'll try and fit it in with story telling. Why hasn't the Republic tried to blockade it's space? It has the ships and personnel. In fact, a lot of the roleplay that the Republic has done is the development of it's military and tech, much to the dismay of many Jedi. Why doesn't it use it to stop further attacks? Surely a blockade in place would require the enemy to first bypass it in one thread. It gives better leverage on the negotiation table, when the OS (or any other faction) wants to invade.
Another thing. Skirmishes. The concept of skirmishes has become lost in the past year. I can't remember the last time I participated in a good skirmish. I think it was when the Obscurity fought the Chimaera somewhere near New Order space, when the New Order was a thing. That was 2014, so it might be longer, at least for me. Why don't the One Sith launch several skirmishes, to take out key leaders- key Jedi, military personnel etc.- to make the next annexation of a Republic world easier? Why don't the Jedi / Republic do the same, only in reverse?
The rebellions were a good start. I saw points made against Republic writers who didn't enjoy the fact that any of their dominions could be rebelled and possibly lost because the enemy can now come in and legitimately sustain the pressure on the faction. But skirmishes? They've become lost and with them has the storyline. Why can't we, as a community, come together with the 100+ or so characters and conduct a really nice battle, that has some repercussions for the winner or losers, without necessarily ending with a star system becoming annexed by the invading force?
Battles create stories. The Battle of the Kaliida Nebula in the Clone Wars was a great episode. It expanded the Clone Wars and the story. Gave it depth. We're missing depth in these invasions. I thought it was fantastic that the One Sith could come out of no where and shrek Coruscant from the Republic- the #1 faction at the time- in some heavy Sith orientated revenge due to what the Republic did to them in the 830s. But what was the story after that? I haven't a clue and I've participated in the majority of invasions- on both sides- since the gecko.
I hope this gave some ideas.
I'll use the Republic as an example. One Sith are invading them, Mandalorians are joining in as hired mercs and you add the odd Primeval / Dark Jedi / Sith Lords normally unaffiliated with the OS but joining in the invasion because the Republic losing another world fits in with mutual interests. The first two questions are minor (and don't really fit in with this example) but I'll try and fit it in with story telling. Why hasn't the Republic tried to blockade it's space? It has the ships and personnel. In fact, a lot of the roleplay that the Republic has done is the development of it's military and tech, much to the dismay of many Jedi. Why doesn't it use it to stop further attacks? Surely a blockade in place would require the enemy to first bypass it in one thread. It gives better leverage on the negotiation table, when the OS (or any other faction) wants to invade.
Another thing. Skirmishes. The concept of skirmishes has become lost in the past year. I can't remember the last time I participated in a good skirmish. I think it was when the Obscurity fought the Chimaera somewhere near New Order space, when the New Order was a thing. That was 2014, so it might be longer, at least for me. Why don't the One Sith launch several skirmishes, to take out key leaders- key Jedi, military personnel etc.- to make the next annexation of a Republic world easier? Why don't the Jedi / Republic do the same, only in reverse?
The rebellions were a good start. I saw points made against Republic writers who didn't enjoy the fact that any of their dominions could be rebelled and possibly lost because the enemy can now come in and legitimately sustain the pressure on the faction. But skirmishes? They've become lost and with them has the storyline. Why can't we, as a community, come together with the 100+ or so characters and conduct a really nice battle, that has some repercussions for the winner or losers, without necessarily ending with a star system becoming annexed by the invading force?
Battles create stories. The Battle of the Kaliida Nebula in the Clone Wars was a great episode. It expanded the Clone Wars and the story. Gave it depth. We're missing depth in these invasions. I thought it was fantastic that the One Sith could come out of no where and shrek Coruscant from the Republic- the #1 faction at the time- in some heavy Sith orientated revenge due to what the Republic did to them in the 830s. But what was the story after that? I haven't a clue and I've participated in the majority of invasions- on both sides- since the gecko.
I hope this gave some ideas.
Jsc
Disney's Princess
To note,
These polls are public and are made available to anyone who wishes to review them. Including the FAs and Event Planners of your Major Factions. Indeed. This topic was never meant as an attempt to change anything in regards to way we run Invasions. This was all about 'Feedback' and nothing about 'Suggestions'.
At this time the data will speak for itself. Cheers to everyone who participated. Enjoy your RPing Chaos.
These polls are public and are made available to anyone who wishes to review them. Including the FAs and Event Planners of your Major Factions. Indeed. This topic was never meant as an attempt to change anything in regards to way we run Invasions. This was all about 'Feedback' and nothing about 'Suggestions'.
At this time the data will speak for itself. Cheers to everyone who participated. Enjoy your RPing Chaos.
Ali Hadrix
Bad Boss
I would be interested to see a sort of light weight, accepted standard for NPC units that helps keep NPC combat in invasions nice and simple.
One issue I think we have with NPC combat is everyone's showing up with their idea of how good their units are, and the task becomes trying to get your opponent to accept that as their reality. Well, anyone wanting to win isn't going to do that.
What creates that sort of struggle is the way the Factory is set up. Currently, you can get away with constructing some pretty crazy stuff, which makes it hard to get other writers to accept every bit as much as it makes it harder for others to judge accurately.
I would love to see us keep it fairly light using a Rock, Paper, Scissors, Lizard, Spock system for NPC units.
One issue I think we have with NPC combat is everyone's showing up with their idea of how good their units are, and the task becomes trying to get your opponent to accept that as their reality. Well, anyone wanting to win isn't going to do that.
What creates that sort of struggle is the way the Factory is set up. Currently, you can get away with constructing some pretty crazy stuff, which makes it hard to get other writers to accept every bit as much as it makes it harder for others to judge accurately.
I would love to see us keep it fairly light using a Rock, Paper, Scissors, Lizard, Spock system for NPC units.