Language Comparisons...

[Captain Jordan]

[member="Selena Halcyon"]

People who argue about just how fictional a fictional universe is are patently crazy. Who cares whether Basic isn't English, we represent Basic with English, so I don't see why someone can't represent Atrisian with Japanese.

 

[Cecily Demici]

There are some pretty heavy handed assumptions flying around... some of which are notably incorrect.

So, to clarify.. If you have a basic understanding of linguistics (a subject I did, in fact, study along with Latin) and look at how Basic is used and described it is in fact similar to English. I've provided some examples below:

• One key indication is the frequent utilization of Greek and Latin letters with identical pronunciations such as R2D2, C3PO (and basically all droids ever,) Delta Squad, any reference to a 'Plan B,' or really any individual letter of the English alphabet.
• The grammatical structure is the exact same. It doesn't matter what assumption you make about whether we are just being given the pre-translated version, etc, but almost every language has a distinct grammatical structure and Basic is the same. It is also typically written from left to right like English. Further support of this is Yoda's unique grammatical constructions which are seen as unique by characters in the series.
• The alphabet is the same. Aurek is pronounced like A, Besh is pronounced like B, Cresh is pronounced like C and so on. They have additional letters that, again, mimic the Latin alphabet such as Enth which is pronounced as AE. Their punctuation is also identical to the English alphabet in usage. The only difference between these things are the way they look.
• Human accents mimic the various Basic dialects.
• Also, for fun, the existence of High Galactic is comparable to Latin, which are both used for scholarly and religious purposes. They are also just down right similar. For example, Fi and Filius, both mean son in High Galactic and Latin, respectively.

The list of examples of comparison go on and on. I was just sort of irked by certain, very definitive, dismissive, and frankly, quite unpleasant assertions that dismissed any relation to the English Language. To say that Basic is not comparable or similar to English is to say that Star Wars humans are not comparable or similar to real life humans... which is false.

This all being said, there is no need to be unpleasant when asserting an opinion which is all anyone here can do until George Lucas Disney says otherwise.

XOXO
C

 

[Selena Halcyon]

People who argue about just how fictional a fictional universe is are patently crazy. Who cares whether Basic isn't English, we represent Basic with English, so I don't see why someone can't represent Atrisian with Japanese.

As said in my first post, you are more than welcome to do it for RP. I think (opinion alert) it is needless and borderline dumb. Rational is that unless you're RPing with people that know japanese you are doing the reader a disservice. Reason being you're probably going to translate it for the other RPer anyways. It is far easier to just put something in brackets (something that is seen for Wookiees in the novels from time to time depending on the books) However, to speak that they ARE in fact the same is where things get dumb.

To say that Basic is not comparable or similar to English is to say that Star Wars humans are not comparable or similar to real life humans... which is false.

That's a false equivocation. We know that they are humans. That's what they are called but more importantly that is what we see visually in the movies. Now, it is potentially possible that Basic and English are the same, but it is a bit of a stretch to just declare that.

 

[Cecily Demici]

[member="Selena Halcyon"]
Well, to be fair, I didn't just declare it. I also gave substantive evidence to support it.

 

[Grace Darkson]

Whether or not Basic and English are similar, we use the later to represent the former, so we may as well use a similar idea for others that we don't know. As far as other languages go, with the exception of things like Huttese and Mando, which have full dictionaries out there for you to find, have very little available. Bothese, for example, has a few words, and it's noted for being what Basic was formed from. That's it. So what can be used as a proxy language without being a linguist and putting all the time I don't have into making one? Use a language with a similar aspect from our world. I use Anglo-Saxon (Or whatever the language name really is). Is it perfect? No. But it works well enough. If a language fits the mold, why would it matter to use it?

After all, if it doesn't hurt anything, why does it matter what language it is?

 

[Captain Jordan]

I love it when people prove my point.

 

[Cecily Demici]

[member="Captain Jordan"] , if this topic doesn't interest you, I think perhaps the most respectful approach would be not to comment at all.

I cant say I know anyone who enjoys being called patently insane for expressing interest in Star Wars on a role playing forum. I do not appreciate it.

 

[Rika]

As said in my first post, you are more than welcome to do it for RP. I think (opinion alert) it is needless and borderline dumb. Rational is that unless you're RPing with people that know japanese you are doing the reader a disservice. Reason being you're probably going to translate it for the other RPer anyways.

This is not necessarily true. Take Japanese Anime for instance. Sure most of us English-speaking, or whatever-else-besides-Japanese speaking, folks probably can only understand the vast majority of the dialogue with subtitles. However, you don't need to know the language to recognize a name. For instance, if I were to start a conversation about Naruto Uzumaki, I'm sure that, using the context clues of sentence structure, most would be able to follow along. Does the name "Naruto Uzumaki" have a meaning in Japanese? Sure. But we English speakers don't necessarily need that information to follow along. But if they introduced a name like "John Jacob Jingle-Heimer Schmidt" in an a Japanese show... wel you get the idea.

Just like we don't need a direct translation for "wroshyr." Does that word mean something to a Wookiee that it doesn't mean to those who speak Basic? Probably. But can we all agree that, in the end, it is most likely used in context as being a name for a tree? Do we really need to comprehend Shyriiwook in order to comprehend that contextual purpose?

You can do a lot to build a culture (real or fictional) by borrowing some basic linguistic clues from other cultures. And other readers don't necessarily need to understand the words specifically to get the point. Depending, of course, on context.

 

[Darth Immortus]

[member="Selena Halcyon"]

People who argue about just how fictional a fictional universe is are patently crazy. Who cares whether Basic isn't English, we represent Basic with English, so I don't see why someone can't represent Atrisian with Japanese.

Nobody said you can't attempt it in RP. The OP just asked if Atrisian was based on Japanese, to which the answer is no.

I would agree with Selena though. Straight swapping Atrisian for Japanese in your RP threads is needless. You're going to need to translate it anyway.

 

[Captain Jordan]

[member="Cecily de Demici"]

Not directed at you, actually.

[member="Darth Immortus"]

And I still maintain there's no authoritative source that declares it so. Atrisian isn't based on Japanese....until it is. So all we need is some writer to come along and make it so, and then it is. At the moment, all we have is vague supposition and canon cultural clues that point to an Asian-influenced culture and the documented existence of, but not the content of, a writing script.

[member="Jorj Kell"]

Has the right of it. You can use Japanese language to influence, name, and color your posts without having your character speak in the language directly.

 

[Darth Immortus]

And I still maintain there's no authoritative source that declares it so. Atrisian isn't based on Japanese....until it is. So all we need is some writer to come along and make it so, and then it is. At the moment, all we have is vague supposition and canon cultural clues that point to an Asian-influenced culture and the documented existence of, but not the content of, a writing script.

You're asking us to prove the negative.

There is no canon source that shows the Atrisian language being based on Japanese, or in fact a developed language at all, which is what the OP was asking.

 

[Captain Jordan]

[member="Darth Immortus"]

False. OP asked if Atrisian was comparable to Japanese. You don't need a canon source to "prove" this.

This is the same as asking if the Imperial Navy is comparable to the United States Navy. It is. It has administrative branches to divide operations, ranks for flag and officers, operational fleets, a clear chain of command, its main operations take place aboard ships (even though the traverse the stars rather than water), it maintains squadrons of fighters aboard select ships and Naval operations are shown distinct from Imperial Army in both ranks, uniforms and specialties of warfare.

Now, if you want to argue the Imperial Navy is unlike the US Navy because there's no canon source that declares it so, for whatever reason, you can go ahead. I think you'll be wasting your breath, just like a lot of people are in this thread.

 

[Darth Immortus]

This is the same as asking if the Imperial Navy is comparable to the United States Navy. It is. It has administrative branches to divide operations, ranks for flag and officers, operational fleets, a clear chain of command, its main operations take place aboard ships (even though the traverse the stars rather than water), it maintains squadrons of fighters aboard select ships and Naval operations are shown distinct from Imperial Army in both ranks, uniforms and specialties of warfare.

That's not exactly a good example. You could say the Imperial Navy is comparable to the U.S. Navy in the same way it's comparable to any other Navy in the world, by the fact that they're all navies. That's about where the similarity ends. There's nothing particularly "American" about it. If anything the Imperial military was clearly modeled after the German Reich, by virtue of aesthetic alone.

So yeah, I guess Atrisian is like Japanese in the way that they're both languages. Great?

The Atrisians are obviously a fantasy counterpart culture to the Japanese, but that doesn't necessarily mean their language was taken from them too. Unless you have some evidence to show that their language was derived fully or partially from Japanese, you can't say it's "comparable to Japanese", any more or less than it's comparable to any other language in the world.