Large vessel ownership for corporations?

[Ashin Varanin]

This one's come up a time or two, feel it's time it got nailed down. The current starship ownership rules apply to individuals, minor factions, and major factions. Companies aren't touched, so they're basically restricted to 400m ships - and individual PC-captained 1000m ships if they make their company into a minor faction, as some have done. After some discussion with Ayden, I'd like to propose a tier-based allowance for ships. Something simple, I think, and not something that would let people like Circe and Larraq give their corporations fleets. Here's one simple addendum:

• At Tier 4, a corporation may own and operate non-combat ships up to 1000 meters. At tier 6, a corporation may own and operate non-combat ships up to 2000 meters.

There are certainly other ways to do this. For example:

Tier 2: May operate PC-captained Corvettes, and Frigate-sized non-combat ships
Tier 3: May operate PC-captained Frigates, and Cruiser-sized non-combat ships
Tier 4: May operate PC-captained Cruisers/Heavy Cruisers, and Light Star Destroyer-sized non-combat ships
Tier 5: May operate PC-captained Light Star Destroyers/Star Destroyers, and Command Ship-sized non-combat ships
Tier 6: May operate PC-captained Command Ships

Again, this is me just floating the idea, with a couple of potential ways to implement the principle to allow, say, a Tier 6 transportation or shipbuilding company to operate a 2km bulk freighter, or to allow a tour corporation to operate a starliner over 400 meters. Other possible ways to implement it include assigning tiers to the current benchmarks for minor factions and new major factions. I'm curious what y'all think.

 

[Popo]

I'm okay with either, though I prefer the first idea. 1km and under for Tier 4 and 5, then 2km for Tier 6. Tier 3 and lower rely on 400m or smaller ships.

Maybe a dev thread for the ships or something? Anything 1km or larger? Or perhaps something like the Major Factions have to do to build over 1km? Build a shipyard capable of them?

 

[Ashin Varanin]

[member="Popo"] - Anyone can make a faction, but to get to tier 4, 5, 6, you've already done well into double digits for dev threads and suchlike things. I tend to feel like the effort of getting there is enough to justify the need for bigger civilian ships. Also, I'm not sure how a corporation would dev thread the ability to support necessary big cargo ships and suchlike things. But yeah, I like the first option better, too.

 

[Popo]

[member="Ashin Varanin"]
I'm speaking mostly so folks who love handwaving a lot of stuff around can't just go "boom, handwaved an entire five fleets, each of 100km worth of 2km freighters with guns into existence. Go me" as some of them will do in a heartbeat. I'll not name names and perhaps I exaggerate, but not by much and we know who those individuals are, to be honest.

 

[Ashin Varanin]

[member="Popo"] - It's a heck of an edge case, but remember there's still the rule that only major factions have the resources to field large fleets, so that's covered.

 

[Popo]

[member="Ashin Varanin"]
*points at Larraq's bio where he has over 500km worth of ships under 1km under his company/minor faction's ownership, all of which was handwaved*

 

[Alli Vern]

as a company owner I approve of this

 

[Ashin Varanin]

[member="Popo"] - And when he uses'em, we'll slap'em. Would have been easier if he hadn't browbeaten the Mandos into subsidizing him. Either way, the non-combat clause should help with that. Anyone got alternate or additional wording in mind?

 

[Danger Arceneau]

I like the idea.

But here is my question; I currently have a bunch of ships I use for ATC and SSB for convoys. Some of them military --- none of them I actually PC use them because they are used for NPC purposes. ( meaning the convoys up and down the various hyperlanes for all the contracts and their respective armed escorts)

I also have some that I write are stationed over Tatooine and Nar Kreeta as defense.

For this sort of deal, how would this affect it if they are for defensive purposes and not a personal attack fleet?

 

[Ashin Varanin]

[member="Danger Arceneau"] - How do we regulate something as nebulous as intent? Gimme some solutions.

 

[Ayden Cater]

[member="Ashin Varanin"] [member="Danger Arceneau"]

Well, the biggest way I could see a corporation abusing them would be throwing them around in Invasions. Clause it so that those particular assets can't be used in Invasions. This allows them to continue to fulfill their story-purposes without being prone to being swung about like a bludgeon in invasions.

Just a thought.

 

[Jacen Cavill]

I approve.

 

[Sarge Potteiger]

Ultimately the first thing anyone will point out is that Kuat had a LOLMASSIVE fleet and complain that they also don't get LOLMASSIVE fleets (I'm pegging Larraq and Circe for that 'point'.)

Since, inevitably, it's going to be asked, perhaps you should include some answer to that in the proposed rule

 

[Danger Arceneau]

I think that if they are strictly use for defensive purposes of their assets, then it can be allowed.

But if they are using it to attack another faction in a pvp setting in an invasion, then a no go.

Regardless, they still require a pc char per ship if they are going to use it in a pvp setting over a certain length right>?

 

[Ashin Varanin]

Again, remember that we already have a rule that only major factions can field large fleets. Corporations who violate that are, well, violating that. We don't need another rule to that effect.

But let's see if we can get a functional draft going. Here's one possibility:

At Tier 4, a corporation may own and operate non-combat ships up to 1000 meters. At tier 6, a corporation may own and operate non-combat ships up to 2000 meters. For combat ships, a corporation is bound by the same standards as a minor faction: all vessels between 400 and 1000 meters must be captained by player characters.

 

[Popo]

Considering that this is apparently a thing, we might want to regulate companies and ships a bit more, especially considering that with his math, he has a fleet with a Tier 3 company that is literally half the size of the Republic's, as per the averaged math Ayden and I did a while back based on planets and planetary fleet budget (all hypothetical).

That said, there are mercenary companies out there like Hyperion Security. How do we regulate ships for those companies?

 

[Ashin Varanin]

[member="Popo"] [member="Darth Janus"] [member="Jared Ovmar"] [member="Danger Arceneau"]
Then deny his tier advancements until he's no longer in violation.

 

[Danger Arceneau]

Sounds reasonable. [member="Ashin Varanin"]

Though to be frank --- all that stuff Waid posted makes absolutely no sense to me... >.>

My lists of ships ATC and SSB uses are just labeled on how many of each I have xD Not meters.

 

[Ayden Cater]

I believe his use of meters was inspired by the fact that many fleet battles in the past have been restricted by meters.

 

[Caulder Dune]

Frankly, I don't see the problem with sufficiently large companies (Tier 4s+) owning their own little defense fleets. I say let them have combat ships 400 - 700 meters in length or something, without any of that PC captain nonsense.