Discussion Let's talk about the Dark Side

[Darth Wallgof]

I always struggle writing a DS character due to a struggle of finding a hook or relatable angle to keep me invested in exploring that aspect of a character. With Wallgof, the biggest interest is the dual mindset he holds of believing he was chosen by the ghost of a Sith Lord and his desire to control, conquer and corrupt others. There is a mental health complex in this since his beliefs of where his powers come from is delusional but he is using those delusions as a justification for his selfish desires. The dark, cruel beliefs he has always held.

So far this has kept be interested in the character and having fun fighting LS characters.

In terms of lore on the Force and how it works, I see the DS as natural as the LS since in the Clone Wars, we have the whole Mortis arc. There was pure Light, pure Dark and Balance. All three aspects of the Force existing and able depicted in the three characters, a character neutral in the Force, a character dedicated to the Light and one dedicated to the DS.

 

[Kai Bamarri]

Generally, I see it as a corruptive scale, often a cycle. The more you rely on the darkside, the more the traits the character relies on to be used are enhanced or relied on. Repeated in a cycle. If you write them long enough and they survive, even these traits can eventually wear out, and it eats them into nothing over a long period. They wear out because I can get bored of writing them, or moreover justifying them in the character's mind, until there is nothing but the action itself left.

I generally prefer to make it a gradual descent for any darksider I write. I break this convention sometimes and just start with a 'thing', or aspects that are entirely broken in the individual, especially if a faction folds up and I need to remake a character. In this case the darkside perfects that character into a more useful one to whatever character/faction they serve, but they don't often get beyond being objectified in that case. Weapon - Seer - Monster - Assassin etc.

It takes a lot of work to build a nuanced character out of a mindless brute starting point as an example, but ending them at that can be the result of a tragic character arc where they can recall or remember what they once were.

I like all of what you said. I too enjoy gradual descents into evil for characters, although I have yet to go all the way with any of my characters making that transition yet. A gradual descent sounds like a lot of fun - although as you mentioned, once they hit the bottom, there's nowhere else to really take them. The journey was the best part. Do you feel compelled to finish their story or kill them off once they've completed the descent?

While I myself have never written a strictly darkside character - most either toe the line or have 'struggles' with it... I have always viewed the darkside in the same vein as a highly addictive drug.

Seemingly harmless at first, but leaves you craving more after each time until it's corroded you into someone you weren't and completely destroys your life, forcing you to continue on the same trajectory because you've burned all of your bridges and have nowhere else to turn.

This sort of sounds like Option #2 in my OP, although I mentioned demonic possession there as an example. The Dark Side as an addictive drug is another common interpretation which functions in a similar way by removing responsibility from the individual and making them a victim of their addiction. I'm reminded of the Symbiote from Spider-Man.

I always struggle writing a DS character due to a struggle of finding a hook or relatable angle to keep me invested in exploring that aspect of a character. With Wallgof, the biggest interest is the dual mindset he holds of believing he was chosen by the ghost of a Sith Lord and his desire to control, conquer and corrupt others. There is a mental health complex in this since his beliefs of where his powers come from is delusional but he is using those delusions as a justification for his selfish desires. The dark, cruel beliefs he has always held.

So far this has kept be interested in the character and having fun fighting LS characters.

In terms of lore on the Force and how it works, I see the DS as natural as the LS since in the Clone Wars, we have the whole Mortis arc. There was pure Light, pure Dark and Balance. All three aspects of the Force existing and able depicted in the three characters, a character neutral in the Force, a character dedicated to the Light and one dedicated to the DS.

I also struggle to maintain interest in DS characters. Sometimes I find myself in the mood to play a hardcore Sith, but usually only as opposition for a Jedi character to fight. More moderate ("neutral evil" you might call them?) characters are more interesting and fun to play with, because they still have a few lines they won't cross. I think this is because if your character has nothing left to prevent them from doing something, the only drama you can really draw from them is if they have an outside obstacle or opposition, usually in the form of another character trying to stop them. Which means that the only RP you can truly enjoy writing them in is PvP.

 

[Briana Sal-Soren]

It's sort of similar, except with drug addiction the person going back to it is still making that choice - they made the first choice and continue on, which is why I view it as more of an addiction rather than possession. There's a way out of it, but it takes a lot of willpower and self determination to get there. Then if said person manages to get free of it, there's a long road ahead of said person, often a lot of work that still needs to be done post-recovery, including making amends if those can be made. With the possession view, the character is relying on others to rescue them and like you said, isn't really accountable for their actions.

 

[R6D3]

Miss post

 

[Kei Amadis]

Kai Bamarri

If I build them around the character's journey and when that concludes, there could be a redemption arc to write, even just to get to a sunset ending. Instead, if they have a specific purpose, when that purpose is gone can they continue to exist elsewhere or be interesting to write elsewhere?

If its a journey: Some are redeemed, usually unplanned. Some continue to slide further and further into the pit. Some get a family, kids, a wife and only get lighter with time. A few suffer really tragic things in their life and break apart bit by bit.

If its a purpose: Was that character written just for the faction? Does it make sense when the factions gone for them to die in the final battle? Or would they switch over to the next one? That sort of thing.

 

[Anak Darkstar]

The dark side is supernatural, unnatural, and lurks all over the galaxy. Its manifestations can be felt, “I feel cold,” (Luke, ESB), and the terrors wrought by it can become too terrible to imagine.

The other view that it is a corruption, a bending of the Force toward selfish gains is a Jedi interpretation. Sith bend the Force to their will because the dark side is like a rancor, like a black hole, and Sarlaac, if you do not control it you will be consumed by it as Lord Nihilus was.

When Lord Sidious baptized Vader, his voice changed, something spoke through him, I believe this to be the logos of the darkness:

 

[Jonyna Si]

I've always seen the Force more as a physical metaphor of our emotions.

The Dark Side is not some supernatural force manipulating it's users, it's your own anger consuming you. Your hate becoming manifest, and snowballing into becoming your whole personality. It's every intrusive thought you've ever had, given form. To fall to the dark side is not some mystical force forcing you to be evil. It's your choice to embrace being evil.

I've always been of the belief that the Force is morally neutral. Using the Dark Side doesn't make you a bad person, in the same way that letting out your anger via punching a pillow makes you evil. To Fall, to become a Sith, that's not some mystical energy taking you over and turning you into a monster. It's you. You were already the monster. Now you've just taken off the mask and become a bastard.

 

[Anak Darkstar]

I've always seen the Force more as a physical metaphor of our emotions.

The Dark Side is not some supernatural force manipulating it's users, it's your own anger consuming you. Your hate becoming manifest, and snowballing into becoming your whole personality. It's every intrusive thought you've ever had, given form. To fall to the dark side is not some mystical force forcing you to be evil. It's your choice to embrace being evil.

I've always been of the belief that the Force is morally neutral. Using the Dark Side doesn't make you a bad person, in the same way that letting out your anger via punching a pillow makes you evil. To Fall, to become a Sith, that's not some mystical energy taking you over and turning you into a monster. It's you. You were already the monster. Now you've just taken off the mask and become a bastard.

Sounds like The Potentium view, “The Force is neutral, light and dark are how we use it, for selfless or selfish reasons.”
What contradicts this view in my estimation is Mortis, The Celestials, The Whills, and that Force does seem to have a will of its own.

The Light Side moves pieces, “Darkness rises, Light to meet it.” (Snoke, TLJ)

While the Dark Side presents itself to all Force Users as another path, to use powers forbidden by The Jedi, The Unnatural. Unlike The Light which makes pawns of the Jedi, The Dark requires its acolytes to master it and “pursue it like hunter” (Darth Plagueis), trying to bind it to will of individual, rather than be manipulated by the Whills or Will of The Force.

One side says “serve,” serve The Force.
The Other says, “submit,” submit The Force to your will.

 

[Jonyna Si]

What contradicts this view in my estimation is Mortis, The Celestials, The Whills, and that Force does seem to have a will of its own.

Shrugs Most of that is Prequel Era canon, none of which I've seen.

I do believe that the force has a will of it's own, but the way I see it, it's like an animal. The Dark side is a piece of it. You do not kill a lion simply because it has teeth, you kill it because it used those teeth to kill your friend.

The Dark Side is never shown in the movies as anything more than an manifestation of the FUers wants and needs. To use it, you simply will yourself to use it. Clone Wars and Faloni's take will always be superseded by Lucas. Not to discard what Faloni's done, but it;s overall a major problem with his writing I have. He wants to flesh out the lore, but it comes at the cost of reworking all that the movies have done to fit what he wants to do, rather than the other way around. Obi Wan says an innocuous line about how lightsabers are 'elegant weapons for a more civilized age', and all of a sudden the current writers take a line written in the 70s and balloon it to be an entire philosophy about how Lightsabers are the key weapon to jedi philosophy and how they have all this meaning that was never intended.

To imply that the dark side is the user twisting the Force for their own needs would imply that the user themselves are more powerful than the Force itself, which I don't vibe with. I think it's more interesting to see sith as creatures who have become so obsessed with power and control that it's consumed them, and thus their emotions have ran wild and they see the Force, an omnipresent being of many mystical abilities, as only a tool for their own schemes. The Force doesn't, and shouldn't care about what they do, as no matter what the sith do, they can't hurt the Force as a whole. So long as life persists, the Force will as well.

 

[Anak Darkstar]

Shrugs Most of that is Prequel Era canon, none of which I've seen.

I do believe that the force has a will of it's own, but the way I see it, it's like an animal. The Dark side is a piece of it. You do not kill a lion simply because it has teeth, you kill it because it used those teeth to kill your friend.

The Dark Side is never shown in the movies as anything more than an manifestation of the FUers wants and needs. To use it, you simply will yourself to use it. Clone Wars and Faloni's take will always be superseded by Lucas. Not to discard what Faloni's done, but it;s overall a major problem with his writing I have. He wants to flesh out the lore, but it comes at the cost of reworking all that the movies have done to fit what he wants to do, rather than the other way around. Obi Wan says an innocuous line about how lightsabers are 'elegant weapons for a more civilized age', and all of a sudden the current writers take a line written in the 70s and balloon it to be an entire philosophy about how Lightsabers are the key weapon to jedi philosophy and how they have all this meaning that was never intended.

To imply that the dark side is the user twisting the Force for their own needs would imply that the user themselves are more powerful than the Force itself, which I don't vibe with. I think it's more interesting to see sith as creatures who have become so obsessed with power and control that it's consumed them, and thus their emotions have ran wild and they see the Force, an omnipresent being of many mystical abilities, as only a tool for their own schemes. The Force doesn't, and shouldn't care about what they do, as no matter what the sith do, they can't hurt the Force as a whole. So long as life persists, the Force will as well.

Actually the dark side speaks through Palpatine at Vader’s baptism.

The dark side manifests when Rey is training with Luke on Achch-To, “you went straight to the dark,” and when Kylo interrogates her, “I know, I feel it too.” The dark side has a distinct feeling, fear and chill, then flame and anger, then hate and suffering. I view the Force more like Zorastrianism, one god is fighting the other, and the disciples increase the influence of one or the other.

The Dark Side is the true nature of the Force. Why wield it if you are going to be stoic monk? Most of the uses of The Force are force: push, pull, throwing rocks, choke, saber throw, lightning, and etc. The Force is conflict and violence, because that is how both Jedi and Sith use it.

 

[Ko Vuto]

To be (a darksider) or not to be, (a darksider) that is the question…

To me there’s a few things that are most important to know about The Dark Side of The Force. Firstly is what the little man himself, Yoda, has to say about it in The Empire Strikes Back when Luke asks him if The Dark Side was stronger. Yoda, without blinking, shuts down such a notion. Saying that it’s merely “Quicker, easier, more seductive”. Which to me makes a lot of sense, because it’s pretty easy to give into emotion and passion than serenity and compassion. Especially if in a difficult situation. This is why many Sith Apprentices are often so much more powerful than there padawan counterparts. Because they get a lot more powerful a lot quicker. Which can give the false impression that it's stronger than the "Lightside".

The other thing is to understand the very, very basic idea of what really distinguishes a ‘Lightsider’ and ‘Darksider.’ A lightsider lets The Force use them, while a darksider uses The Force for themselves. Doesn’t really matter if you’re Jedi or Sith, using The Dark Side of The Force is to force your own will upon it. Often with the use of powerful, raw emotions to fuel your resolve in doing so.

Another thing is that in The Movies, “The Light Side” is never directly mentioned or named. Instead The Light Side is just named The Force by everyone. The light is just The Force as is. The Dark Side is always the imbalancing perversion of it. Twisted and contorted in ways that an individual desires.

The last idea I’d like to bring up is the idea of The Dark Side being addictive. Which is something I mostly agree with. Not really in the idea of it being a drug, but more like a power trip. The thing I’d like to elaborate on is something I never really hear mentioned as much when discussing The Dark Side. Which is that I believe that the Sunk Cost Fallacy is a hidden factor into the downward spirals of Darksiders. The idea that they’ve invested so much into it that they need to make it work. Otherwise it was just a miserable, pointless endeavor. Like a gambler stuck in a casino spinning slots. (Or a gamer opening loot boxes for all my zoomers out there xD) I think this idea was somewhat touched on in The Revenge of The Sith novelization when Darth Vader gets his cybernetic suit and learns of Padme's death. Learning all his efforts and the carnage he caused was for nothing, and that the Darkness and himself are all that he has left.

Well that’s basically my two cents, thank you for listening to my Ted Talk

 

[Anak Darkstar]

Sith actually train to master the emotion and passion, Darth Maul is a good example in Shadow Hunter.

Palpatine even spoke to Vader about his concern about his emotional obsession with Kenobi:


Sith use passion for strength, and emotion, but they temper it to use at their discretion, not be controlled by it. Another good example of this is Vader vs Luke on Bespin,
“Obi-Wan has taught you well, You have control of your fear..now release your anger, only your hatred can destroy me!” (ESB), when Yoda said “fear is the path to the dark side, fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering.” (TPM). None of the Jedi mentions Sith master fear, they act like they are slaves to it, but Vader tells Luke he has mastered it.

This is problem is Jedi think they understand The Nature of the Dark Side. And in their hubris describe and label something foreign to them.

Sith Apprentices tend to be stronger because they arn’t trying to follow ethics in a fight, the point is to kill, but Jedi spend too much time trying to consider if what they do is Light or not, because Force forbid they do something dark. That hesitation can be the death of a Jedi.

The Dark Side is addictive. But true masters of it show constraint and have patience. If you do not control The Hunger, it it will consume you.