Light-siders vs. dark-siders in business

[Matreya]

But then why comment on the situation as is? If you want a char to be in the limelight, why comment as if you dont?

[member="Cathul Thuku"]

 

[Odd the Wise]

[member="Ryan Korr"] wouldn't the SJO be considered heretics for being so militaristic- Charzon's actions aside, of course- if it weren't for the fact that they're the currently the most dominant Jedi Order?

 

[Tydeus of Tion]

[member="Ryan Korr"] wouldn't the SJO be considered heretics for being so militaristic- Charzon's actions aside, of course- if it weren't for the fact that they're the currently the most dominant Jedi Order?

If simply acting militaristic is heresy, then Yoda's Jedi are all heretics.

 

[Odd the Wise]

If simply acting militaristic is heresy, then Yoda's Jedi are all heretics.

Can't really argue with that tbh

 

[Ellie Mors]

The number one most important thing to remember first, foremost, and only is that a business is only a business if its end goal is to make more money.

While a company may not do business with the Sith because their owners may not agree with their moral views and actions, or maybe they are a political foe, it does not mean they are a light-sided organization.

Same goes in reverse.

At the end of the day, every business exists to make money - they do not exist to create starships for the light or destroyers for the dark unless that is the best way to make money.

If the best way to make money is to support a Sith government by signing contracts exclusively to them? Then, yeah, of course they're going to do that - but it isn't because the company is aligning with the dark side of the force, it's because they're going wherever they can get more money.

If a company does not benefit from refusing to sell to either party, or even only to one, you can bet they'll either die as a company and go bankrupt or show they have no integrity, just like every other corporation, in order to make money.

 

[Jessica Med-Beq]

When I started on Chaos I assumed that corporate warfare was a dimension of the game, that their owners (and the factions of which they are members) would use corporations to fight as a proxy or as covert actions. It seems that Chaos is far more tame than canon as far as corporate warfare is concerned. I even expected light-vs-dark to be played out in the corporate arena as well.

IIRC I made 2 corporate-sponsored attempts at corporate sabotage as a writer, one of which failed (Rendili) and the other one having been a mixed IC success (Kuat). In the latter instance Ringovinda StarYards was, at the time, ICly suspected to fight as a SSC proxy.

While in OOC terms a bankruptcy would amount to archiving the bankrupt corporation, someone being an inactive writer with a corporation does not necessarily mean ICly that their corporation is bankrupt.

 

[Siobhan Kerrigan]

Siobhan is the darkside owner of a tier 6 corporation (Firemane Industries), who's neither Jedi nor Sith. It's co-run with an NFU ([member="Tegaea Alcori"]), her wife.


What's the purpose of her company? To make money for the Kerrigan-Alcori clan and their employees. It's not a proxy for 'light' or 'dark' factions. Sio's metaphysical views are pretty irrelevant. A company makes stuff, people buy their products. If Firemane has a side, then that's the Tygaran Alliance, which is a national allegiance that has nothing to do with Force metaphysics.

The number one most important thing to remember first, foremost, and only is that a business is only a business if its end goal is to make more money. While a company may not do business with the Sith because their owners may not agree with their moral views and actions, or maybe they are a political foe, it does not mean they are a light-sided organization.

This so very much. And what [member="Judah Dashiell"] and [member="Jay Scott Clark"] said.

 

[Aithne Charr]

.... *blinks, turns around, goes back to more interesting stuff.*

Oh before I leave though. Yall are looking to far into this, companies are companies, they make things and people buy things from them. What happens after is not in the hands of the company owner and as such their alignment means nothing in the end. Unless they are truly self conscious, then they need to rethink owning one.

 

[Alkor Centaris]

I would argue that a dark sider has greater business accumen. The basic principles of Capitalism are rooted in growth, expansion, and profit. I would be surprised if a Jedi didn't write those things off as "selfish" and "greedy."

Jedi are commies confirmed.

 

[Drystan Talroth]

Light side doesn't necessarily mean Jedi though. There are plenty of people out to make their way financially who start companies with good intentions. The little old lady who runs the bakery down the street from me is undeniably a good person, who gives generously to charity, sponsors all kinds of events, etc etc etc and has been doing so since she started the operation back in the stone age. She still grew, expanded, and made a profit while doing so.

My point being, you can pursue growth, expansion, and profit and do it in a "light side" way. Does it make it more of a challenge? Sure. But at the end of the day, most people just want to make a paycheck, regardless of whether you're selling med packs with fluffy bunnies on the side or the latest genocide-powered death ray.

Note to self: Ask [member="Siobhan Kerrigan"] about feasability of genocide powered death ray.

 

[Sor-Jan Xantha]

I would argue that a dark sider has greater business accumen. The basic principles of Capitalism are rooted in growth, expansion, and profit. I would be surprised if a Jedi didn't write those things off as "selfish" and "greedy."

Much like what [member="Siobhan Kerrigan"] detailed, the mission and vision of Corellia Digital is a company that inspires job creation in the Corellian System (growth), drives innovation in the technology sector (expansion), and provides a secure, stable income for its Corellian workers and shareholders (profit). My character is a Corellian Jedi. At the end of the day, he could give two chits and a kark about the rest of the galaxy that exists beyond the 5 Brothers. His company creates jobs for Corellians and invests in the Corellian economy. If that meant selling to the One Sith, then they sold to the One Sith.

The company is neither lightside or dark side. It is "Corellia side." That doesn't mean that the company is devoid of morals, however. Look at real world company's like Warby Parker, which incorporates both environmental awareness and charity into its business model.

As for my character's personal morals or ethics, he doesn't receive a salary from the company, and then either re-invests earnings back into the company or donates them to charity. But he's very much in it as a capitalist enterprise, because even if he isn't motivated by personal wealth for himself... he wants that for his employees.

And, really, the lack of personal wealth is a moot point when Jedi have access to cutting edge technology, military grade hardware, massive physical infrastructure, high value real estate, and operate with seemingly complete autonomy from governmental action (taking children, police/arrest powers, etc). Qui-Gon was obviously prepared to cut a check in Republic credits for whatever price that Watto named, so to say that the Jedi don't have access to a wealth of some kind contradicts the screen canon. That kind of organizational wealth and affluence, when the members have access to it, is still wealth.

So, with all due respect to the monastic asceticism they tried to push on us in the fleeting glimpses the prequels gave us of the Jedi... I simply find the materialism and personal attachments of the Legends Corellian Jedi far more realistic to what we actually saw.

But to each their own, and I can see how communism is one possible interpretation of Jedi.

 

[Ellie Mors]

When I started on Chaos I assumed that corporate warfare was a dimension of the game, that their owners (and the factions of which they are members) would use corporations to fight as a proxy or as covert actions. It seems that Chaos is far more tame than canon as far as corporate warfare is concerned. I even expected light-vs-dark to be played out in the corporate arena as well.

IIRC I made 2 corporate-sponsored attempts at corporate sabotage as a writer, one of which failed (Rendili) and the other one having been a mixed IC success (Kuat). In the latter instance Ringovinda StarYards was, at the time, ICly suspected to fight as a SSC proxy.

While in OOC terms a bankruptcy would amount to archiving the bankrupt corporation, someone being an inactive writer with a corporation does not necessarily mean ICly that their corporation is bankrupt.

The fights in the corporate arena are between companies for their own reasons, not for light or dark. We are not one-dimensional people.

 

[Jsc]

When I started on Chaos I assumed that corporate warfare was a dimension of the game

It can be.

I even expected light-vs-dark to be played out in the corporate arena as well.

Light-vs-dark is everywhere in Star Wars. But you have to stop yourself when you get too simple.

Look. Real life is a great place to look for people getting too simple. When you see people asking themselves: Which skin color does my God like best? Does wearing this type of clothing make my God happy with me? What book section as Barnes & Nobles does God want me to avoid? Etc etc etc. <--- This. This is too simple. And it's as childish to see in Star Wars as it is in real life.

Light-vs-dark is a part of this genre. Yes. Light-vs-dark is a part of Star Wars forever. Sure. But this community can only put up with so much simple. Therefore be wise. Attempt taste. Think about your first post in this thread? In hindsight, it might just a bit too simple for this community. (Or, ya know. Life in general. Lulz.) That's all I'm saying.

No matter what canon says. Try not to get, too simple.

 

[Alkor Centaris]

Much like what [member="Siobhan Kerrigan"] detailed, the mission and vision of Corellia Digital is a company that inspires job creation in the Corellian System (growth), drives innovation in the technology sector (expansion), and provides a secure, stable income for its Corellian workers and shareholders (profit). My character is a Corellian Jedi. At the end of the day, he could give two chits and a kark about the rest of the galaxy that exists beyond the 5 Brothers. His company creates jobs for Corellians and invests in the Corellian economy. If that meant selling to the One Sith, then they sold to the One Sith.

The company is neither lightside or dark side. It is "Corellia side." That doesn't mean that the company is devoid of morals, however. Look at real world company's like Warby Parker, which incorporates both environmental awareness and charity into its business model.

As for my character's personal morals or ethics, he doesn't receive a salary from the company, and then either re-invests earnings back into the company or donates them to charity. But he's very much in it as a capitalist enterprise, because even if he isn't motivated by personal wealth for himself... he wants that for his employees.

And, really, the lack of personal wealth is a moot point when Jedi have access to cutting edge technology, military grade hardware, massive physical infrastructure, high value real estate, and operate with seemingly complete autonomy from governmental action (taking children, police/arrest powers, etc). Qui-Gon was obviously prepared to cut a check in Republic credits for whatever price that Watto named, so to say that the Jedi don't have access to a wealth of some kind contradicts the screen canon. That kind of organizational wealth and affluence, when the members have access to it, is still wealth.

So, with all due respect to the monastic asceticism they tried to push on us in the fleeting glimpses the prequels gave us of the Jedi... I simply find the materialism and personal attachments of the Legends Corellian Jedi far more realistic to what we actually saw.

But to each their own, and I can see how communism is one possible interpretation of Jedi.

I would wager that no small part of the Jedi "wealth" came in the form of subsidy, since the Republic stood to gain a great deal from the perpetuation of their Order in defense of the Senate- reinforced by the presence of their temple on Coruscant, rather than divorced from the epicenter of Galactic commerce entirely. It further makes sense in the context of their direct association with missions to guard VIPs and take on missions above militant paygrade, as well as the Clone Wars example of Jedi taking on the duties of a General during wartime.

(The Economics of the Jedi Order circa 40-1 BBY, a thesis by Alkor Centaris.)

There is no evidence supporting that the Jedi conducted any sort of business beyond their regular duties, which would force them to relative dependency on either tax monies, contributions from wealthy donors, tithes from willing diplomats, or gratuity. I'd be loathe to believe the Jedi accepted tips based on their dogma, though.

Now, does that mean every single Jedi followed those principles? No, of course not.

 

[Sor-Jan Xantha]

[member="Alkor Centaris"]

Phantom Menace is our best glimpse at economics, being that the plot centers around a trade embargo. And what we see are Jedi as ambassadors of the Galactic Senate (government employees?) who are later used as the personal bodyguards of a planetary monarch and then go on to use child labor in a blood sport as part of a gambling scheme to rip off a parts dealer.

So while you're correct we don't see Jedi owning businesses, we do see a Jedi who could arguably be viewed as more opportunistic than a Sith.

 

[Drystan Talroth]

[member="Alkor Centaris"]

Phantom Menace is our best glimpse at economics, being that the plot centers around a trade embargo. And what we see are Jedi as ambassadors of the Galactic Senate (government employees?) who are later used as the personal bodyguards of a planetary monarch and then go on to use child labor in a blood sport as part of a gambling scheme to rip off a parts dealer.

So while you're correct we don't see Jedi owning businesses, we do see a Jedi who could arguably be viewed as more opportunistic than a Sith.

I do agree with what's being said here, but by the same token, Qui Gon was not a good example of your regular Jedi. Most considered him to be somewhat....grey. Certainly not a bad person, but hardly the Jedi ideal either.

Also, I believe that I read somewhere though I can't remember where that the Jedi pre-clone wars were primarily funded by charity. This does however leave some questions, because unless the charitable donations from a galaxy where 99% of people never even met a jedi were very, very generous, I'd think that some things would have to have been subsidized by the Republic.

Can you imagine just the lighting bill for the Jedi Temple, with those huge halls? I shudder to think at the bills coming in the mail from Coruscant Gas and Power every month...

 

[Siobhan Kerrigan]

[member="Sor-Jan Xantha"], [member="Alkor Centaris"]


The truth comes out! The Jedi have been the bad guys all along. The Jedi order only exists to prop up the ancien régime, which is dominated by aristos and monopolistic megacorporations. Where's Teddy to bust trusts and Philip the Fair to purge the Templar...Jedi bankers?


Joking aside, the subject of how the Jedi order funds itself has long been of interest to me, as have the economics of SW in general. The obvious assumption would be that the order is subsidised by the Senate, given its close association with the Republic and the fact that Jedi are endowed with far-reaching powers (e.g. conscription of children, powers of arrest and termination of schismatic cultists) within its territory.


However, then Jedi ought to be employees of the Republic government and responsible to it, yet we often see situations where they act as a wholly independent agency whose aid the Republic must solicit...and which they are at liberty to deny. The Jedi's refusal to aid the Republic during the Mandalorian Wars is a case in point, leading to Revan and Malak creating their own Freikorps and becoming rogues in the eyes of the Council (and then turning evil, becoming Vitiate's dupes and so on).

 

[Cathul Thuku]

[member="Alkor Centaris"] You have the People's Inquest who called precisely for financial transparency for the Jedi.

And such groups similar to the People's Inquest would rather have 1) Jedi own and run corporations and 2) have the Jedi pay for their operations out of corporate cashflow from their own corporations, than to have taxpayers subsidize their operations. (And the same for Sith)

Plus the advantage of owning and running corporations for Jedi grow up exponentially as their corps get bigger and bigger. They would gain access to more resources than what their level of government funding, tithes or private donations would allow them to, especially if they need to act on a large scale.

Speaking of which, how do factions fund their Force-users? (in Chaos)

 

[Siobhan Kerrigan]

Speaking of which, how do factions fund their Force-users?

Why should Force-users receive special funding? They could just get a job, like everyone else.

 

[Nima Tann]

It's corporate life, everyone's out to get you. There is no light or dark side in business, only how much money you get. Everyone is your enemy, no matter how you are on the same side, at the end of the day money talks.

Welcome to the real life, we have no cookies here.