Star Wars Roleplay: Chaos

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

'Long-Range' Fleet Weapons

So something I have been wondering for a long time, especially now I’ve been developing a new fleet for the Coalition concerns ‘long-range’ weapons.

Specifically, the questions I have are in regards to:
  • What makes them long range? Are they more accurate at longer range, or just flat out longer range? As a Venator is supposed to have a range of 8 light seconds (2,400,000km, or 10 times the distance from Earth to the moon) I can’t see how much longer you need.
  • Are they stronger than regular weapons? They cost 5 capital guns each…are they as strong as 5 turbolasers, or something less?
  • Are they any good? I’ve added lots of them to my ships before, but depending on the answer to the two above I think I might give pause.
 
[member="Valiens Nantaris"]

The name of the game is effective range.

A Turbolaser may have what seems to be an ungodly sum of range on paper, but notice that fleet engagements occur within a moderately "close" distance. You won't see ships sniping each other from adjacent systems.

That said, the average Turbolaser has an effective range. That means that the average admiral isn't going to engage a ship until he is within the distance to deal maximum damage accurately. This is where Long Range Turbolasers come in. They have immensely greater overall and effective ranges, which means that a ship possessing them can accurately fire when another one cannot.

Sure, I can take a potshot from several light seconds away but it will most likely miss.

Now, the downside of the LRTL is the energy demand. It is an energy hog to the core, because it needs extra power to shoot further. As such, two things happen. One, LRTLs tend to be installed on ships that can handle them power wise. And two, at closer ranges, the bite is greater than average. Now, it's not going to one shot anyone or something ludacris, but if a long range Turbolaser hits home within "average" range...

Well, imagine putting a sniper rifle to a target's chest.

I won't go into the details about targeting systems and whatnot because, let's face it, break time is only thirty minutes. <disclaimer]And, while I'm not expert on the factory/ships, this is just how LRTLs have been explained to me over the past year and change. </disclaimer]
 
[member="Camellia Swift"]
It is an open discussion, but FJs are welcome to clarify how they see it...especially as they are judging these subs.

[member="Darth Metus"]
Thank you for the explanation. That does help.
One question I do have is - is it as powerful as its 5 capital gun cost suggests? Since 'heavy' guns cost two, is it really as powerful as 5 regular cannons?
 
Valiens Nantaris said:
One question I do have is - is it as powerful as its 5 capital gun cost suggests? Since 'heavy' guns cost two, is it really as powerful as 5 regular cannons?
From what I remember when it was put into place, the 5x modifier is broken down into a 2x plus a 3x. The 2x is for the "heavy" modifier, while the 3x is for range. So, essentially, they're just Heavy modded weapons with longer range. That said, [member="War Hydra"] could probably explain it better as he's more fleet minded and gun minded than I am.
 
[member="Valiens Nantaris"]

With a Heavy, Long Range Turbolaser, I'd wager that it's got twice the bite of a standard LRTL.

Not sure if twice the range, but the heavy modifier typically implies greater impact.
 
Valiens Nantaris said:
[member="Arrbi Betna"]
OK, that makes sense.

But then I guess the question is...what about a heavy long-range? That's a mammoth 10 capital guns each.
4x modifier for damage, 6x modifier for range.

Does the same damage as a Heavy, Heavy Turbolaser.

Just... from farther away and with horrible tracking speeds.

Anything smaller than a Star Destroyer is a hard target for these weapon.
Anything moving fast is a hard target for these weapons.
Anything not moving directly towards or away from the firing ship is a hard target for these weapons.

They originally started seeing use on SW Chaos as a "main battery" weapon for larger Star Destroyers to use against one another, or spinal mounts for small support ships.
The intended target of these weapons was always large, semi-stationary Star Destroyers.
 
[member="War Hydra"]
So basically, a heavy long range turbolaser does 400% damage and the rest of it is to compensate for the range.

That really does help, thanks!

<_< We've found a way to make the Immortal an even more useless ship. :p
 

Nyxie

【夢狐】
To understand the modifier mechanic for the standard turbolaser (we'll call it STL), you first simply have to understand how each individual modifier would affect it statistically. Primary attributes (realistically) are strength, range, accuracy, velocity and energy(efficiency/exchange (or simply, consumption)).

[HTL] The Heavy modifier would make things twice as damaging, but less than twice than its effective range, cost a little less than twice the consumption of two individual weapons of the same time (which wastes less energy as one process (think having one big transformer instead of several smaller ones)), have only marginally better travel velocity and likely even less-than-standard accuracy due to the increased bolt size and capacity.

[LRTL] The Long Range modifier would probably make things about two and a half to three times as far-ranged and almost that in velocity, but only twice or slightly better than in strength, with the focus being on the stability of the bolt (and strength of its field) rather than the quantity or charge of the plasma/beam. Muzzle and travel velocity would naturally step up, but not by much more than a Heavy variant, accuracy would increase in similar fashion and the cost could be said to be around two and a half times the cost. The name of the game here is stability, not potency, and like a sniper rifle, these weapons would be made for their effective range and ability to retain damage, rather then deal it immensely and outright like an AK-47, for example.

[H-LRTL] Mixing the Heavy and Long Range modifiers together yields some interesting results, as one is not only stepping up the range, accuracy and velocity, but also the raw damage potential via size. These weapons would be massive in comparison to their generic siblings. At this level, simply firing such a weapon might require reducing consumption from other subsystems during firing to facilitate the sudden energy demand for all but the largest of ships (as while your reactor might be able to handle it, your power lines WILL NOT, and there's no such thing as overloading a wire - you will generate tons of heat and a massive energy efficiency DROP from even trying - as in lose energy in the pipeline). Fire rate is also going to naturally sink, but predictably so. Your effective range is going to be -almost- doubled as opposed to a standalone HTL, the damage might be close to double (though probably closer to 1.5-1.6x your LRTL), and the velocities and such will also scale up roughly linearly.

=====​

TLDR: Some aspects scale linearly, others logarythmically. It's important to note that your damage yield is always going to be gradually less efficient the larger in scale the weapon grows, but the effective range and travel velocity may scale quite sporadically depending on a number of factors which can't be charted systematically in a linear pattern. There's also ALWAYS SOME FORM OF LOSS when scaling said things up; it's never a point-for-point X-times increase, for instance. Bigger isn't better. A bar of steel isn't twice as strong just because one made it twice as large, as it's still steel. Consolidation is more efficient in energy but less efficient in potential.

Niche is the key word for these, especially when stacking multiple modifiers.


Sources: Student Electronic Engineering Technician & Weapons Technology Engineer. :D
 
It's not as powerful as 5 regular guns. I've always thought around twice as powerful, but I'm loathe to attribute a particular number to it. Fleeters, in my experience, are generally good sports and self balance as things go.


Long-range turbolasers had a significantly longer effective range and were far more powerful than typical ones, allowing ships equipped with them to engage enemy craft from a distance at which the enemy could not respond, though at the expense of even greater power drain
Effectively, there is a downside in massive power drain to reach the extreme ranges. If you make a ship dedicated to long range firepower, you're going to get mashed by something dedicated to close range brawling. The intention of a ship should be more important that the numbers anyway. It's just for muggins here to make sure nothing stupid gets through, but sometimes things slip through the cracks. Like the Mal£^%$% *sound of a struggle and someone being gagged*

I don't actually care that much about the mechanics of turbolasers. It comes under lightsabers in terms of "stuff someone was once made to make up a vaguely technical explanation for, for a Star Wars publication at some point, but no one really cares."
 
[member="Valiens Nantaris"]

No worries. Using maps, or sketches of the fleet battle make a difference for long range weapons too. Big, slow ships are then vulnerable to being picked off from a distance. Side note: I also found at Ord Mirit it make bomber wings far more of a threat, as they can strike quickly. Much like in RotJ where the fighters close well before the cruisers start hammering at each other.
 
Bunker-level Normal
[member="Nyxie"]

This is much closer to my approximate understanding of what weapon ranges would be based on. An earlier explanation posited that a long-range shot would have tracking issues, but this is likely true of any long-range weapon when the target is moving. I much more subscribe to the idea that STL bolts lose their integrity (and thus damage strength) over the course of their range, so the maximum range of weapons is not going to be the optimum range of weapons. Tracking comes into play, but as mentioned, when dealing with two long range ships lobbing projectiles at each other, tracking is less of an issue than the energy used and bolt integrity.
 
Captain Jordan said:
[member="Nyxie"]

This is much closer to my approximate understanding of what weapon ranges would be based on. An earlier explanation posited that a long-range shot would have tracking issues, but this is likely true of any long-range weapon when the target is moving. I much more subscribe to the idea that STL bolts lose their integrity (and thus damage strength) over the course of their range, so the maximum range of weapons is not going to be the optimum range of weapons. Tracking comes into play, but as mentioned, when dealing with two long range ships lobbing projectiles at each other, tracking is less of an issue than the energy used and bolt integrity.
I'd agree with that assessment too. If turbolasers are based on lasers (which they may not, being "space magic"), they are likely subject to diffraction, and thus lose coherency as the waves travel farther from their source. As they lose coherency, they lose their power. If you're interested in the specifics of that, take a look at [url=

On a related note, what is the general consensus on the range of "standard" hypervelocity cannons here on Chaos? Depending on who I've talked to, this seems to vary a bit...
 

Nyxie

【夢狐】
They're nothing more than charged particles and Tibanna gas energized into the state of plasma. I guess laser was just the "cool" thing to call it at the time. :p
 
Valiens Nantaris said:
[member="Gir Quee"]
Turbolasers are not lasers, it's a misapplied term. They're simply huge blasters...and blasters are plasma cannons.
You're right; I'm getting my universes mixed up.

Still, they do apparently require some sort of focusing, otherwise I imagine the MAS-2xB and the SPHA wouldn't have specific focusing dishes built into their designs. Or it could just be inconsistent canon...
 
Bunker-level Normal
[member="Valiens Nantaris"]

Plasma has to be contained (likely magnetically) to maintain its superheated temperatures in the frigid climate of space, and such a magnetic bubble could be subject to the save cohesive degradation as a laser is. After all, it needs power somehow, and when you're shooting it out of a ship, it needs its own power source. If it's self-contained, the power is finite and will eventually give up the ghost. If you're following the blaster bolt with a microwave beam for power, that's going to degrade over distance.

Okay, I'm really nerding out over this.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top Bottom