Malice
Did the Zef Halo Deepmind AI that's pretending to be Tefka just admit that the real Tefka is dead?
Someone call Intel Wars.
Star Wars Roleplay: Chaos
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Suggestion Mandate: Insurrection Campaign
- Thread starter Cassus Akovin
- Start date
Did the Zef Halo Deepmind AI that's pretending to be Tefka just admit that the real Tefka is dead?
Someone call Intel Wars.
B E A C O N
Hot take #89427:
Fatty
can like a post on a thread if he wants, he's entitled to do so. Liking or reacting to a post doesn't mean we endorse it. I like all of the posts I read in threads I am responding to so they know I have read them, or sometimes to convey appreciation for the effort put into the post. It doesn't mean the default reaction ("like") means I particularly like a post, and it doesn't mean Fatty does either. It means we read the post and can at least show some level of respect as adults.
that aside:
mandates are not old, even the "old" mandates weren't old. they got tossed out because they didn't work, and, shocker, several of the newer mandates are a mixed bag of good and bad, sort of like the other ones.
It isn't just "the map game" because staff introduces a new mechanic, you don't just lie down and accept something that has a markedly negative impact because it is now a part of the rules. It used to be against the rules to start off as a master or a knight, and it used to be a rule that we had to follow progression stuff in companies, neither of those are the case anymore and the response then was "that's just how it is", which seems to be the natural response whenever someone doesn't know how to defend their stance.
So, since the people who are more or less mud-slinging the OP for like-reacting the initial mandate announcement or otherwise "wanting guard rails" in completely apples-to-oranges comparisons that don't belong in a civil discussion seem to refuse to actually defend the mandate itself, I'll do it for them.
Invasions have always been able to be done in the manner displayed in the OP. TSE itself, and the majority of other established major factions, have employed in "remote invasions". The issue is not with the mandate, it is with this stupidity of being able to invade from literally across the map when all of the checks and balances of invasions are built and centered around being a neighbor to a faction you'd be in conflict with. It's why the single-hex faction issue was so gigantic, it wasn't because the AOC were a single hex that they were so formidable, it was because they could be anywhere on the map and hit anyone at any point and nobody could do anything about it (primarily because of being a capital hex, but that wouldn't have been an issue at all if they couldn't invade further than a handful of hexes away).
This wasn't an issue in the past, before dominion overhauls, because factions used to be able to stack 50 posts onto dominions to bridge that gap in a short period of time to prevent people from acting in this way.
tl;dr: defend your stance or don't talk; and the real issue is with the loopholes in the systems that allow factions to do what they do, not the gameplay mechanics that are working as intended.
Fatty
can like a post on a thread if he wants, he's entitled to do so. Liking or reacting to a post doesn't mean we endorse it. I like all of the posts I read in threads I am responding to so they know I have read them, or sometimes to convey appreciation for the effort put into the post. It doesn't mean the default reaction ("like") means I particularly like a post, and it doesn't mean Fatty does either. It means we read the post and can at least show some level of respect as adults.that aside:
mandates are not old, even the "old" mandates weren't old. they got tossed out because they didn't work, and, shocker, several of the newer mandates are a mixed bag of good and bad, sort of like the other ones.
It isn't just "the map game" because staff introduces a new mechanic, you don't just lie down and accept something that has a markedly negative impact because it is now a part of the rules. It used to be against the rules to start off as a master or a knight, and it used to be a rule that we had to follow progression stuff in companies, neither of those are the case anymore and the response then was "that's just how it is", which seems to be the natural response whenever someone doesn't know how to defend their stance.
So, since the people who are more or less mud-slinging the OP for like-reacting the initial mandate announcement or otherwise "wanting guard rails" in completely apples-to-oranges comparisons that don't belong in a civil discussion seem to refuse to actually defend the mandate itself, I'll do it for them.
Invasions have always been able to be done in the manner displayed in the OP. TSE itself, and the majority of other established major factions, have employed in "remote invasions". The issue is not with the mandate, it is with this stupidity of being able to invade from literally across the map when all of the checks and balances of invasions are built and centered around being a neighbor to a faction you'd be in conflict with. It's why the single-hex faction issue was so gigantic, it wasn't because the AOC were a single hex that they were so formidable, it was because they could be anywhere on the map and hit anyone at any point and nobody could do anything about it (primarily because of being a capital hex, but that wouldn't have been an issue at all if they couldn't invade further than a handful of hexes away).
This wasn't an issue in the past, before dominion overhauls, because factions used to be able to stack 50 posts onto dominions to bridge that gap in a short period of time to prevent people from acting in this way.
tl;dr: defend your stance or don't talk; and the real issue is with the loopholes in the systems that allow factions to do what they do, not the gameplay mechanics that are working as intended.
T E M P E S T
Ellie Mors
I would agree with you if Tef hadn't said already that the mandate is working exactly as intended.Just turns out people don't like that because they were exploiting an earlier oversight in the previous map game systems.
Terminus Est
"Defend your stance or don't talk" is about as dismissive as "the map game is optional."
This is the first instance where this mandate has even been employed. The staff team is no doubt watching to see how things play out. If it's indeed game breaking, they'll make a decision. They've taken everyone's opinions into consideration.
This is the first instance where this mandate has even been employed. The staff team is no doubt watching to see how things play out. If it's indeed game breaking, they'll make a decision. They've taken everyone's opinions into consideration.
B E A C O N
B E A C O N
Yes, and opinions along the lines of removing this is akin to putting guard rails on a bowling lane and this is how it's supposed to be without any critical thinking is not conducive to any effort staff would be taking in evaluating whether or not the mandate is beneficial or not to the invasion/map system/"game".
It's the equivalent of saying "no, u". So, yeah, my response is supposed to elicit that knee-jerk reaction. That's the point. You get the same response you gave and you end up in an infinite loop where nothing is progressing and nobody gets anything done because nothing constructive was brought to the table. That's why I went the extra mile to defend the mandate for the people who are arguing for it.
T E M P E S T
Well salt me down and burn away. You're right. Sorry lmao
Heir to the Empire
no u
Ellie Mors
Ellie MorsTerminus Est
Honestly it just seems like a waste of energy when Tef said "hey, we have no plans to change these at this time."
At this point we're just arguing because Tef Vult.
At this point we're just arguing because Tef Vult.
B E A C O N
Terminus Est
But does it?
Like, genuinely, does it? It lends to conversation on your end, but he's already said his peace and isn't responding anymore. You're just getting troll responses at this point.
My take on this? Honestly, since I respect that you're having this conversation out of regard for the OP and you genuinely want people to consider that side of things, I'll give you a direct response.
I don't think it matters. I don't think invading across the map is any different from invading bordering factions. At best, if invasions HAD to be made at the border, people would dom their way over and do it. The only difference is now we're peeling away the need to gain territory to make someone else lose it.
At the end of the day, it is arbitrary and invasions get charged by salt. People aren't down for the "let's write to have fun and then someone will just give up hexes." Everyone wants to stake their claim to territory.
This mandate just happens to force the Sith Empire to get cloudbroken. If it was anyone else, they might feel the same way. Who the hell knows. I know NIO wouldn't. Those crazy guys just want to burn shit down, and if they get caught in the fire, they'll burn too.
We could all profit from caring a little less about hexes and a little more about the writing.
Ellie Mors
Like, genuinely, does it? It lends to conversation on your end, but he's already said his peace and isn't responding anymore. You're just getting troll responses at this point.
My take on this? Honestly, since I respect that you're having this conversation out of regard for the OP and you genuinely want people to consider that side of things, I'll give you a direct response.
I don't think it matters. I don't think invading across the map is any different from invading bordering factions. At best, if invasions HAD to be made at the border, people would dom their way over and do it. The only difference is now we're peeling away the need to gain territory to make someone else lose it.
At the end of the day, it is arbitrary and invasions get charged by salt. People aren't down for the "let's write to have fun and then someone will just give up hexes." Everyone wants to stake their claim to territory.
This mandate just happens to force the Sith Empire to get cloudbroken. If it was anyone else, they might feel the same way. Who the hell knows. I know NIO wouldn't. Those crazy guys just want to burn shit down, and if they get caught in the fire, they'll burn too.
We could all profit from caring a little less about hexes and a little more about the writing.
Ellie MorsB E A C O N
I mean.. I did introduce the suggestion to allow major factions to open up their own influence cloud to rebellion and go neutral.. so I am pretty sure I vibe pretty hard with the forget about the map line. I am also pretty sure I am the only person who has ever used it? idk. I haven't really paid attention, I just know a faction went major because they were given the opportunity to take advantage of that new ruleset to do that in a way that promoted cooperation with their narrative opposition rather than being opposed in-character and out-of-character.
That wasn't really the point though, the point that seems to still get glossed over was that factions were given a vehicle to bridge a gap to invade via dominions, and invasion rules (and other additions to the major faction arsenal in terms of avenues for hex-related stuff) were built around this idea that a faction would be interacting with someone close enough that the consequences of doing so would be quickly meted out. The ability for factions to invade hexes further away was enhanced by the nerfing of dominions as the map moved from being planet-based with a grid to dom-a-hex, especially as hexes shrank in size and basically circled back to where we were 4 years ago when we had to dominion individual planets just without the ability to add more posts to increase net territory gain from dominions.
In plain terms:
That wasn't really the point though, the point that seems to still get glossed over was that factions were given a vehicle to bridge a gap to invade via dominions, and invasion rules (and other additions to the major faction arsenal in terms of avenues for hex-related stuff) were built around this idea that a faction would be interacting with someone close enough that the consequences of doing so would be quickly meted out. The ability for factions to invade hexes further away was enhanced by the nerfing of dominions as the map moved from being planet-based with a grid to dom-a-hex, especially as hexes shrank in size and basically circled back to where we were 4 years ago when we had to dominion individual planets just without the ability to add more posts to increase net territory gain from dominions.
In plain terms:
Not being able to move the capital isn't the issue, it just feels like a big issue because the actual issue (being able to surgically encircle a major faction's capital from 20 hexes away, for example) amplifies the perceived stress this puts on factions that would have otherwise benefited from moving their capital. (that is to say, the mandate isn't an issue here, neither is whatever cloudbreaking scenario going on, because cloudbreaks are an intended feature of the map, the issue is that there's artifacts of an older era of invasions that are heavily favoring invading factions over defenders.)
Forged in Fire
I think my thoughts on relentless, cloud breaks, and capital changes echo earlier sentiments. I don't think, in your example of the NIO/TSE/GA situation, this would really be an answer tbh - relentless does have one, even if it's not one people want to embrace - but I do like the merit it has for interacting with other mandates, or situations similar to this going forward, despite my initial discontent. I think with tweaking, it could be a solid idea, and adds another layer of strategy to the map game. My suggestions would be one or more of the following, if you were to re-propose this at a later date:
Cassus Akovin
just two cents from a nerd who likes map mechanics
- Remove the mandate for 30 days, not 60- With how stagnated things can get on the map, I think 60 is too long for this.
- Remove the defenders current mandate should they lose, but allow them to pick a different one - in your example of Darkwire and fortress worlds, it would make sense that stripped of that advantage, they could choose another, perhaps even intended to strike back against those that attacked them - thus possibly spurring the map game.
- Add a weakness. I'm not a fan of pointless weaknesses, but for the potential this has in regards to change the entire course of a factions plans, I like the idea of adding a risk. Something like "Should the attacker lose, their mandate is removed and a new one may not be selected for X days", or something along those lines, sounds a little better to me.
Cassus Akovin
just two cents from a nerd who likes map mechanics
L Admin
Ease up on the NIO virtue signaling, I still have the tapes of
Irveric Tavlar
and
Zef Halo
and the collective NIO voice chat crying after losing Borosk. I play them sometimes, when it’s raining, to cheer myself up.
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Heir to the Empire
Scourge of Gold
Terminus Est
Yo that's why I like you Tef, you're a funny guy.
AMCO
I'm Sorry Dave
I'll be frank, if anyone was suggesting changing the rules now to give TSE a break I'd be very, very firmly against, TSE Creative or not. I don't believe anyone has seriously suggested that, however - this is mostly about how the Mandate works in general, spurred by seeing it play out.
I even purposefully phrased my (admittedly stark raving mad) alternative so that it would have shafted TSE even more in the current situation*. That is if Brotherhood of the Maw opted to trigger it... but come on, why would you pick that Mandate and then not use it so spectacularly.
I'm not a huge fan of its indiscriminate nature, is all, but mechanics to lock down capitals? By all means, I'm down. Sounds like a good time to me.
*The Rebellion would almost certainly have delayed the Capital change until after the Invasion gets judged: if TSE won the Rebellion but lost the Invasion it would get nothing, but if it was the other way around it would have kept its hexes anyway but now ends up losing a chunk of its territory.
Good Ol' Scoundrel
Ease up on the NIO virtue signaling, I still have the tapes of
ok i wear smuggler flair?? Thoughts??
Good Ol' Scoundrel
ok i go listen to tefkas qq tapes
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