Martial Arts and godmodding

[Darth Vaildra]

As I have made Hakora/Valdra to be a martial artist I have come to a lot of questions. The main question I cannot answer is how would one perform grapples and disarmament?

In my fights I have attempted to use disarmament and grapples using my current knowledge of Martial arts and how they would be used. Even if logically someone could not escape it, someone how they do. My curious question is if a grapple comes in logically would it be godmodding to follow through?

 

[Fabula Caromed]

Trust. Good writing. A basic respect for your writing partner.

Truth be told, this character is using a lot of grapples, pins, locks, and holds. I'm intimidated by the prospect of PvP, because I know that not everyone is going to respect me as much as I try to respect them. Chances are I'll have a whole lot of nothing during melee combat because everyone believes getting hit is the equivalent of losing.

But you take it, and you run with it. If someone is being too evasive, write smarter. Find the flaw in their technique and exploit it. More importantly, talk to the writer. Communication is very important.

 

[Valiens Nantaris]

If you need to ask if it's GMing....

Remember that everyone thinks their character is the ultimate master of fate and destiny…so yes, it would be Godmodding to call a hit on your opponent without their prior, written consent.

 

[Darth Vaildra]

[member="Charlotte"]

You provide great insight into this and I should like to RP with you and see how you write out of curiosity. Though you are right, getting hit is like losing. I have always RPd a hit for a hit or if they make a move that is just too good to not take or would require less logic to avoid then I take the hit. I find taking hits are the best because A people respect those who are not immortal fighters and B, taking a hit is a lot of fun.

My wonder is maybe developing through guides and research a way to use such things. As in there can be auto grapples, but montored in a different way.

For example, say someone punches you aiming for the chest, but you pivot to dodge. Due to their momentum in the punch it would be logical and require little effort to lock their arm so you can auto that using it as a counter and then you perform your attack. The attacker can still dodge and if they can logically break the hold then they do.

 

[Darth Vaildra]

[member="Valiens Nantaris"]

What are your thoughts on what I just posted in regards to a grapple being counted as a counter? A grapple in and of itself is not damaging, it is what you do after and that would still negate godmodding. My reasoning for this discussion is a grapple move is really one fluid move, but without that first grabbing it becomes two different posts instead of one unless you message the person you are fighting before every move to make it one post.

 

[Kiber Dorn]

[member="Charlotte"]

I'll grapple with you, bb.

 

[Fabula Caromed]

[member="Kiber Dorn"] let's get implausibly melodramatic together.

 

[Valiens Nantaris]

[member="Darth Valdra"]
It’s like saying that swinging a sword is natural to write its impact.

If you grapple with someone you have to wait for their reaction to it. There’s no way around it.

 

[Cyrene Miles]

My basic reply to all things PVP. I rarely let people get hits early on especially if I've not written with them before. This is because a great big ol majority of the site do think their characters are Gods, or are unwilling to see them hurt. This being the case I feel out my opponent first to see if they are also willing to take hits. If yes, I'm generally fine losing (I lose a lot on my characters) if not I'm probably going to cunningly escape or call in back up like a jerk. There are very few characters I'm willing to just take a loss from without making them break a sweat.

So for me, if you called a hit on me? We're basically done. Once we've written more and I know and trust you, maybe.

 

[Ellie Mors]

[member="Valiens Nantaris"]

What are your thoughts on what I just posted in regards to a grapple being counted as a counter? A grapple in and of itself is not damaging, it is what you do after and that would still negate godmodding. My reasoning for this discussion is a grapple move is really one fluid move, but without that first grabbing it becomes two different posts instead of one unless you message the person you are fighting before every move to make it one post.

If you are doing something that effects their character directly and write out an end-all-be-all, there-is-no-choice, action, that is god-modding. Doesn't matter what you call it, how you dress it, whether it is a counter or not. It is still godmodding.

 

[Alva Calvarona]

Well if they have the force I could see someone using that to perform a disengage somehow, mostly because of its versatility and lack of limbs required to actually pull something off.

An NFU should have fewer options but there could be some. If they know and properly write out martial arts to keep up with you maybe. And then depending on your hold maybe they have a few options. If they got a free hand using a stun grenade in close quarters or a taser might do em some good. Rearing around and slamming you against a surface and risking their limb being broken or injured is another way.

Talking their way out of it could work, threatening to use a live grenade if ya don't let go would be a serious threat if risky. Likely only used if they know its a battle to the death anyway or the situation around the battle is serious.

Agreed some people may not play fair.

But the above are the ways I could imagine hopefully people could do it fair.

 

[Darth Vaildra]

[member="Cyrene Miles"] [member="Lily Kuhn"] [member="Alva Calvarona"]

I agree with all of you mainly because I have never been an absolute person. Also in my mind, if someone kicks at you then they are offering you a chance to take it, evade it, counter it, or grapple it. To me a grapple in RP is the same as if I swing a sword at someone and they not only counter my blade, but lock it. By RPing a blade locking you are auto forming the fight to that will be the move no matter what. I am sure all of you have experienced that. Also a grapple is NOT a end all be all because if you know Martial Arts you know there is always a next move until someone loses. If I were fighting someone in real lifr an grab their right leg they could just as easily use that to their advantage and pivot on that leg and hit me with their free leg.

In no way am I proposing a end all move, merely a move that in martial arts is always one move, but in RP it is two.

 

[Darth Vaildra]

@Cyrene Miles @Lily Kuhn @Alva Calvarona

To add to what I just said, how I have always done grapples thus far because I do use them is I write out the whole move in future tense and then end with a phrase like, "If all this connected." In most of my hand to hand combat fights I usually do an attack that has one counter and two attacks and usually not all of them connect.

 

[Jsc]

[member="Darth Valdra"] Meh. It's the same with sword fighting. You 'attempt' to do something and then let your partner go next. It doesn't have to be fancy or elaborately detailed. If every post we had to detail every singluar law of physics and magic at work, no matter how good our math, nothing would ever get accomplished in RP.

I recommend you go big. Go for spectacle next time. Say: And he went for a Scorpion Hold. Or, he went for a Paintbrush. Or, he went for a Judo Throw. If you make it big and loud then it's easier to read, understand, and to guard against. I mean, taking a whole paragraph to describe the most intricate subtitles of your wrist and elbow are confusing and excessive. Especially for your partner to have to read through and think about. Nah. I say, go bold. Make it big. Attempt something provocative with some heft to it. Then let your partner decide what to do with it. Should be fun.

 

[Bloodknight]

[member="Darth Valdra"]

It depends on how you time it. If Two character are just standing there and looking at each other and one of them just suddenly has the other in a hold, that isn't fair because the other character could have done something about it and wasn't given a chance to.

However, if one character throws a straight jab it is okay to simply write that the other grabbed the arm and put them in an arm lock as what is the puncher to do? He already has his arm fully extended in an attempt to hit the other character. Unless it was stated that the attacker intended to beforehand, he cannot stop his fist mid-punch as he has to be fully committed to the attack in order to do any damage.

So only if the opponent has put themselves in a position where they have no reasonable defense can you auto-hit.

 

[Jorus Merrill]

[member="Darth Valdra"] - I've got jujitsu and aikido experience, and this character's the one I use for grappling. I've definitely wrestled (heh) with the same problem. Here's how I approach it on a practical level.

• Catching a strike counts as a block and is generally fine if you do it right
• You then very clearly attempt to trap/lock/twist/throw/whatever

• If you're reaching to grab, make sure it's an attempt, followed by an attempted trap/lock/twist/throw/whatever

• Be very careful not to line up anything more than a move ahead. Maybe one extra move is fine, if phrased as a conditional. One bare-bones example:

Jorus snagged the punch out of the air, attempting to tighten his grip and wrench Cavill's wrist like a corkscrew. If it succeeded -- if he doubled Cavill over -- he intended to try and bring a knee up at the Sith Lord's chest or face.

That gives Cavill a lot of leeway at four points: he can get out of the grab before it solidifies, he can do something else to avoid getting bent over, he can do something else to deal with the knee, or he can take the whole hit (strained wrist, elbow-strike to the chest or face) and then gain some distance for a return strike. Each countermove opportunity can completely prevent the next move without negating what I've posted.

Oh, and be careful with mounts/close grappling. Focus on attempts. Give maximum leeway.

Hope that helps.

 

[Asemir]

Pretty much what [member="Jorus Merrill"] said. You attempt to complete your action, but you leave it to your opponent to accept or deny it.

Unless you know your opponent very well (OOC-wise) and you have an understanding with him (OOC-wise), you're stuck with the whole attempt-to-do-something thing.

[member="Darth Valdra"]

 

[Abigail]

[member="Asemir Lor'kora"]

Yeah, I am used to knowing my foes very well, as I noted in one brawl I had as Bazette

 

[Asemir]

I don't mean in an IC sense, but an OOC sense. You need to know the other writer as a person.

For example, if I wrote a duel against Ashin Varanin, it would probably be acceptable if I took some liberties because John and I have an existing relationship. I know what he considers reasonable and he trusts that I won't abuse his trust.

[member="Darth Anarchis"]

 

[Abigail]

[member="Asemir Lor'kora"]

I meant OOC as well.