Feedback Megacorpopolis is kinda broken

[Imperius Indomitus]

To counter the idea of laziness used in the the purchasing of the planets. The simple solution, for a minimum effort, to counter it, is demand an article, a story, blog entry of the faction to accompany the purchase and give the background of how, why and what the faction actually does to claim these worlds. It supports a narrative and since the accumulation of UCs is anyway based on posts, the faction staff should have no difficulties with coming up with such a story to justify their expansion.

I think the price itself is quite fair, had to do some calculations recently for the faction and 100k is not a small amount. Divided by five people, it is affordable but still requires good activity in other threads.
Plus it is one of the very few meaningful ways to use the currency, which is cool.

Just tie an actual narrative to the payment post in the Map Thread like is done for all other map additions and we get story and input with it.

 

[Soundwave]

Amount of time/effort to get 100k UC for 1 hex > Amount of effort to post 1 codex/factory sub for 1 hex that can be shit out in a matter of a day.

Rampant Frontier gets you 5 hexes for 4 codex subs and a dom. Technoboom nets you 4 hexes for 4 tech subs, doesn't have the weakness Frontier has where you're limited to just 1 dom submission for potentially even more hexes gained, this isn't even taking into consideration the other half of the mandate.

Takes 600k to cap out Megacorps usage every month. There are barely a handful of people on Chaos who could sustain using Megacorpopis for more than 3-4 map updates. If anything the rate at which you gain UC's should be increased greatly to compensate for the fact that discrepancy in effort put in to gain a single hex. Better yet Frontier and Techno should have the number of subs needed to get 1 hex increased.

In conclusion -

 

[Tefka]

From a design perspective, I’ll be honest, I expected it would be OP in the beginning. Because it’s literally the only thing to spend your money on thats worthwhile, because the forum doesn’t treat it like an IC currency and never has. Its as much a game mechanic as hexes on the map are. I always envisioned it being a huge concept to play with like, for tournaments, races, bounties, and other RP incentives. But its rarely treated as that - instead, its hoarded. The mandate was a sink to stop the hoarding.

Imo, if anything is broken, its the existence of credits themselves, and my belief that they are a creative accessory to our roleplay. I haven’t seen them used as much as I want. I mean factions could literally pay for mercenaries in invasions but has that ever happened? I dont even think we have groups that have organically formed around the concept. Maybe we need a bigger population of writers to fulfill my original vision, or maybe the culture just isnt about it, either way I accept I just missed the mark.

Thats the real debate, imo. Maybe Staff raises the price, limits the hexes, looks at the math again, i dunno, just kinda let down that the only meaningful discussion about credits is “it earns too many hexes”.

 

[Soundwave]

DE hired a few mercenaries to bolster their lineup against NEO in the current invasion. To be honest, upping the ally count for invasions by making mercenaries a purchasable asset that doesn't interfere with the usual 5 ally slots being taken up by characters that would make sense working with each other, would be nice. I think it would better incentivize more mercenaries to take part and thus add more intrinsic value to UC's being used. Pro bono mercenaries in general just be kind of odd. But yes UC's in general are basically useless.

As you stated Tefka UC's being an accessory rather than a necessity makes it impossible for a UC to have any sort of meaningful value outside of large scale, tangible things ie the Map. People have made things like betting with UC's a thing, but the issue is a lot of it is internalized within a faction so it's not like those UC's really are going anywhere. People aren't required to put UCs towards purchasing factory items, they have no tangible advantage for a mercenary to gain them outside of 'Look at me and my wallet that I can't do anything with'. The issue also extends to people saying "I am one of the richest person in the galaxy" because they said so, and continuing to perpetuate how useless UC's really are.

Unless you're putting a price on things like advantages that can be used towards the map game, for example how the codex had a contest where the winner basically got a card that they can use to take 3 hexes away from a faction to give to another faction whenever they want, then UC's are just going to be ineffective and pointless. But then the issue becomes people complaining about OOC advantages being used.

Personally, I think being able to use UC's for advantages could be potentially great because it can add a basis for an IC story to be written from, like a surprise offensive that overtook 3 hexes from one faction. But these advantages would have to be heavily dependent on 'what if' scenarios and not 'I get an immediate advantage' outside of perhaps like a counter to negate someone else's advantage. For example, if a faction is invading another faction they can put X amount of UC credits to purchase a theoretical advantage where the attacking faction can gain an extra hex(s) 'if' they successfully win the invasion. You invest your UC's in the potential hopes that you get the payout desired, while also making the Map game itself more interesting. I can choose to either spend 600k UC's on getting 6 empty hexes or I can spend 600k UC's in the hopes of getting something more out of invading another faction, a bet that is entirely dependent on how well you would be writing. It gives more opportunities to make a meaningful impact against other factions.

I dunno, give Mercenaries more power and impact if we plan on doing something with UC's because I almost guarantee you that they won't be getting use anywhere outside of Megacorp and artificially inflating someone's ego of how much fictional money they have.

#NukeTheMap

 

[Tefka]

See like, you’re an example of what I’m whining about.

You say there needs to be a mechanical reason to pay mercs to join (more than 5 ally slots) rather than just paying people for IC reasons.

Factions could literally tax people right now. Does it happen? I’m sure someone has some example of it happening one time. Does it actually happen? We already know I’m right so why debate.

I can’t make people care. I can force mechanics as obstacles, but in my opinion, thats anti-rp and further gamifies a system meant to be roleplay driven and open ended, with minimal mechanical obstacles.

The map is a game, yep. Lets keep it where it is and not further blur the lines. The credit mandate blurs a bit I agree, but I think for now we can keep it there.

 

[Srina Talon]

Credits have been used for bounty payments, piracy threads, pod races, contests, holidays, etc in the past. We may not see people using it so we assume it's not being incorporated... But it has happened (in neat ways) for more than just this mandate. It's perhaps just not as often or as visually impactful as we might like for a sandbox tool.

I agree that the mandate could use some tweaks (less hexes, cost more, time limit what have you...) or maybe UC should just be removed entirely with the loss of the Vault. It was really exciting and cool when it was released but UC was just kind of what got left behind.

I don't agree with saying people are "lazy" though for using it. It's a mandate we released - They're just using the tools we gave them.

If the mandate is OP or is giving the illusion of activity that isn't there...That's on us.

 

[Jonyna Si]

Honestly, my biggest issue with UC, is that there's not IC incentive to use them over not using them. I could throw UCs at a merc company, or I could just ask nicely OOC or IC, and the same goal is achieved.

There's not real benefit to acquiring more, as there's no real place to spend them. Most Marketplace vendors don't use them, and even the ones that do, why spend UC there when I could just make my own in the factory, or go to another vendor that doesn't use them.

The mandate itself is really the only meaningful way to spend them, and thus the result is people transferring UCs off characters they've had for years, built up a dragon's horde of UC, then spending them on a faction they didn't have to contribute to to forward the map game.

 

[Darth Prazutis]

I do think there isn’t a definite solution to this mandate and the UC‘s, there’s definitely multiple paths we can take. I certainly believe the mandate as it currently stands needs to be changed. I’m not going to say anyone using the mandate is lazy either, how can you fault someone for using a tool everyone has free access to, that doesn’t make any sense.

I do think some constructive alternative ideas would be better proposals for replacements. Perhaps it’s limited to at the most 2 hexes on the weakness that you lose that many dominions to the amount you can perform per month is a valid alternative idea.

I do think there is also an alternative to severely limiting the time frequency between uses that’s also an idea that can be used, if it’s limited to once every 2 months, every three months. The more hexes this mandate gives, the larger the drawback to the faction owning it should be.

 

[Darth Empyrean]

I'm not gonna say using the mandate is lazy, but I will say this; getting 100k UCs is not nearly as hard as finishing a dominion. I know in blind post count, it seems like that is the case - but it isn't. People post so much to private threads, even when a faction is dying, that it alone can carry a faction into the semblance of activity. 100 posts, split between every faction and its writers, is far easier to get than 40 or 50 in a single dominion/populate/junction/whatever.

My only complaint about the mandate is just that it is too strong. We've seen it happen multiple times where a faction buys almost a dozen hexes a month, just because they happen to have some people who whale their posts, or have a backlog of ucks in the millions. I think it should be nerfed - so people actually use the other mandates, which arguably could be more interesting. People tend to default to the path of least resistance, and megacorpopolis is just the easiest way to get hexes now.

 

[John Locke]

Perhaps the simplest way to balance the mandate is with a slight alteration. Right now, PvE threads are capped at 4 (per this announcement) so why not just say that the hexes purchased via this mandate take up a PvE slot? That way you have to make a choice, you can buy 4 hexes, but loose out on the faction activity. Not a problem if you're telling stories in other threads, or you choose to submit PvE threads and cap them with the brought threads.

Any faction that's using this to supplant RP in an effort to stay alive, well we tend to see through that and call them out on it. Buying hexes won't help you come activity check time.

I do agree, it's not that people are lazy, but just using the tools available, but if a tool isn't working as we intended or wanted, we can change it.

In regards to UC, I think we definitely need more money sinks to absorb the glut of UC on the board. Well either that, or we let me tax UCs, it'd be fun to be on the other side of the table for once.

 

[Caelan Valoren]

Imo, if anything is broken, its the existence of credits themselves, and my belief that they are a creative accessory to our roleplay. I haven’t seen them used as much as I want. I mean factions could literally pay for mercenaries in invasions but has that ever happened? I dont even think we have groups that have organically formed around the concept. Maybe we need a bigger population of writers to fulfill my original vision, or maybe the culture just isnt about it, either way I accept I just missed the mark.

Don't think you missed the mark, just don't think people are intent on using it as actual in game currency. Be cool if we did. "You want that implant? 100,000 credits, please." or "Oh, your government wants monthly shipments of that compound? That'll be 50,000 credits a month."

But at the same time, I see some of the older folks who remember the real old days of having shipyards for factions and waiting X amount of days per meters of ship for a ship to be built to gravitate away from it because of the bad memories of that system. I also see people who are new and don't have credits, or new characters with no credits, not being able to buy things and that maybe scaring some of them, even though factory stuff has always been optional.

 

[John Locke]

I also see people who are new and don't have credits, or new characters with no credits, not being able to buy things and that maybe scaring some of them, even though factory stuff has always been optional.

I mean, if that became a use, then we could also just loan them the UC to buy what they want

 

[Caelan Valoren]

I mean, if that became a use, then we could also make IC banks to borrow from.

I like it!

 

[Kitter Bitters]

My issue with UC is I have to worry about bills and having money IRL so I don’t want to stress about it in my escape rp. I like that they aren’t mandatory for most things. I get that makes them less useful though.

 

[Caelan Valoren]

My issue with UC is I have to worry about bills and having money IRL so I don’t want to stress about it in my escape rp. I like that they aren’t mandatory for most things. I get that makes them less useful though.

I don't think anyone is going to make you pay bills with it, KitKat, don't worry. Buying stuff from people is not mandatory, so I don't think you really need to worry about it too much. Besides, you post a lot so you'll probably have a good stash.

 

[Valery Noble]

Perhaps the simplest way to balance the mandate is with a slight alteration. Right now, PvE threads are capped at 4 (per this announcement) so why not just say that the hexes purchased via this mandate take up a PvE slot? That way you have to make a choice, you can buy 4 hexes, but loose out on the faction activity. Not a problem if you're telling stories in other threads, or you choose to submit PvE threads and cap them with the brought threads.

Any faction that's using this to supplant RP in an effort to stay alive, well we tend to see through that and call them out on it. Buying hexes won't help you come activity check time.

I like this proposal!

 

[Soundwave]

Yes Tef, the map needs mechanics because it is a mechanical game because we get something for doing something, just the way you made it. You want people to use UC's more, then introduce things that are impactful and can add to the atmosphere/flavor of it without hindering the actual roleplay. If for example a faction wanted to invade Mandalore, would I want to recruit 5 mercenaries that take up all my ally spots as the defender, or would I much rather have 5 Mandalorian characters that are not part of my faction coming because they wanted to help defend their home. It gives the opportunity for the ally slots to be used by relevant characters and then being able to hire mercenaries independently from that is just extra for a cost. Boom, you found a way to make UC's more useful by assigning a tangible value that doesn't hinder roleplay, but in fact adds more than what was otherwise intended by allowing more writers in. Alternatively, you just get rid of the mandate and UC's because there's literally zero use for them otherwise. Hiring a mercenary should come at a cost because that's literally their job description.

The map's already bloated and a majority of the mandates don't encourage interaction between factions outside of just self-expansion or invasions. I don't get why we argue the map being a game and introducing more gimmicky mechanics to at least make it more enjoyable is an issue when the new map is already being set up to have even more gimmicks with the different types of hexes being introduced. The issue would just be further exaggerated by the addition of hexes that people now assign a value to and scramble to get through rapid hex gain rather than encouraging more roleplay between factions. Are resource hexes going to be so impactful that I scramble to throw down as many free hexes as I can rather than doing back to back doms in order to acquire one? That's where I can see mandates like Megacorp being broken.

Major factions are supposed to the be biggest drivers for interaction yet a majority of the time they decide they want to just sit and grow out their own cloud rather than do anything productive with the influence that they have. There's a lot of opportunity to do good with making factions interact with each other rather than diddling around in their own cliques, so encourage and reward factions for taking that step with extra benefits, because I assure you getting just 2 hexes out of an invasion isn't as enticing or effective as you hope it is.

Also, what is the point of arguing the arbitrary 'brokeness' of the mandate because of how many hexes it gives? We just don't like smaller factions having the ability to get larger to at least try to make some semblance that they are recognized as a galactic power? A lot of minor factions popping up are being run by long time members wanting to make a splash because they have such great ideas and stories in mind.

There is literally zero advantage to having a big cloud other than making it difficult to have any sort of meaningful invasion damage done against you? Of the two factions that currently do possess it, they don't even have that advantage of making it difficult to invade them because it would only take 1-2 invasions to easily cloudbreak them or invade their capitals from literally any other neighboring faction. Just because a faction owns a hex is supposed to deter other people from roleplaying on them? We've got someone wanting to invite a bunch of Sith Echani into GA owned Eshan. Is their alignment going to stop them from roleplaying because the hex belongs to a different faction? No, unless the FO decides to forbid it, but outside of that it's not like anyone is being robbed the opportunity to roleplay wherever they want to, it just mitigates any major conflicts from being started on said hex which case INVADE IF YOU WANT THE HEX THAT BAD.

How many factions have we had that reached critical mass before they ultimately went down because things were getting stale and crumbled under their own weight because people got tired? I'd rather a faction have grown their faction large through Megacorp than have to do a dom, again and again till they burned themselves out on doing the same thing over and over again just marginally reskinned, because at least they'll have the hex to do a faction thread rather than doing 5 doms just to reach a hex that might be interesting and then have access to it at any given time. Dominions lose the gimmick and fun after you do them for years on end and I guarantee you that sentiment is shared by a majority of the veteran writers.

 

[Tefka]

we've now reached the point of the suggestion thread where i stop reading because you wrote 8 paragraphs about credits people say are useless

congrats u win whatever point you just made

 

[Darth Prazutis]

Perhaps the simplest way to balance the mandate is with a slight alteration. Right now, PvE threads are capped at 4 (per this announcement) so why not just say that the hexes purchased via this mandate take up a PvE slot? That way you have to make a choice, you can buy 4 hexes, but loose out on the faction activity. Not a problem if you're telling stories in other threads, or you choose to submit PvE threads and cap them with the brought threads.

Any faction that's using this to supplant RP in an effort to stay alive, well we tend to see through that and call them out on it. Buying hexes won't help you come activity check time.

I do agree, it's not that people are lazy, but just using the tools available, but if a tool isn't working as we intended or wanted, we can change it.

In regards to UC, I think we definitely need more money sinks to absorb the glut of UC on the board. Well either that, or we let me tax UCs, it'd be fun to be on the other side of the table for once.

This. The mandate doesn't need to go away. But something like this is what I've been trying to propose, amending it. If its 1-2, or 1-4 that would be fine because theres an equal and opposite drawback to the effect the mandate provides.

 

[Tefka]

first time i've seen someone encourage a guy openly trying to tax everyone