Mercenaries and Invasions

[Zef Halo]

I've never seen a mercenary faction stay alive for long and I'd really love to. So with the discussion about ally slots recently, I was wondering maybe that one of the factors mercenary factions do not survive is the lack of accomodation for them for their primary reason - war a.k.a invasion threads since there is only 5 slots or maybe someday 10 slots for allies which usually tend to be given ' to mah bae '.

Right, so why not put up 'contract slots' , maybe only one for the attacker and another for the defender at start to see how it goes. I think that might open up the creation of factions which generally do not have a military of their own but contract their assaults/defences to mercenary companies. Thus, we might see long lived merc factions and not standard governmental type of factions rise.

 

[Valiens Nantaris]

[member="Zef Halo"]
This is what the ally slots are for. Mercenaries have used them since the very start.

Having special slots or rules for one type of character is a bit too over complicated for an essentially simple system.

 

[Zef Halo]

[member="Valiens Nantaris"]

True. It is good for solo mercs but what about a minor faction of 9 PCs mercs? That's what I am trying to suggest to be accomodated. Of course, it is just my opinion and view on it.

 

[Matreya]

I have to strongly disagree, with respect, toward the Head Admin. The whole ally slot, as stated, is usually towards the 'bae'. More than once I have seen Jon togged when he never even posted, same with others. They are strictly considered the most powerful, and could be aligned so everyone says yeah they're aligned.

An outright Merc position would be awesome as that would give those few that aren't actually allies, but hired guns, a chance as it is.

 

[Zeradias Mant]

[member="Valiens Nantaris"] [member="Zef Halo"]

Mercenaries aren't allies though, they're hired by a faction to do some of the heavy lifting. Ally slots should be reserved for just that: allies.

Allies help out because of principle. Mercenaries do it for the coin.

 

[Ra Vizsla]

[member="Zeradias Mant"] [member="Fos Misao"] [member="Zef Halo"]

Mercenaries are temporarily allying with the people who provide the coin, though.

Don't spin the term to fit the narrative.

Furthermore, the "bae" is usually chosen because they are more trusted to carry out their part of the Invasion, and they're more motivated. I know it's a tough competition, but it's just the simple reality of the ordeal.

I can see the reasoning behind what is being requested for here and it could actually work, but it doesn't make much logical sense. If you have people who are sworn allies, why not go to them first rather than paying someone? The "bae" doesn't require coin, usually.

Mercenaries are for people who don't have allies. If I have allies, in a war, I'm going to turn to them first before turning to the more unreliable mercenaries.

 

[Ra Vizsla]

Also what would stop me from just grabbing 5 Mandalorian Crusaders free of charge and then paying 5 more Mandalorian Crusaders as mercs?

Lol. That's the most likely outcome of this scenario.

5 more "paid" bae slots.

 

[Zeradias Mant]

[member="Ra Vizsla"]

Lol, I'm being literal. Mercenaries don't ally with you, they work for you.

Let's use the Clans' invasion of Kashyyk as an example. You have the Crusaders joining you. They are allies because of their affiliation, therefore filling an ally slot.

If I have a LFG thread up looking for mercenary work and you reach out to pay for my time and services, how is that at all the same as an actual ally, sworn to your side whether it be through friendship or fealty? After the battle is done, does the mercenary continue to be your friend and your ally? No, they go and continue the routine. Allies on the other hand are good for more than just one battle. If you want to have a rule that bars mercs from working in two consecutive invasions involving the faction they worked for or fought, so be it, but to categorize a mercenary as the same thing as an ally is just stupid.

 

[Logen Brunner]

I remember a time when I (Strider Garon) dominioned Serenno with 90% of the writers being hired mercs. Good times.

 

[Ra Vizsla]

but to categorize a mercenary as the same thing as an ally is just stupid.

Nah, stupid is if I provided you a definition of what an ally is at 01:14 in the morning because I know I'm right and I want to prove it even though I know we're both never going to agree but still, internet points.


Definition of Ally

1. to associate or connect by some mutual relationship, as resemblance or friendship.

2. to enter into an alliance; join; unite.

3. a person, group, or nation that is associated with another or others for some common cause or purpose.

 

[Zeradias Mant]

Also what would stop me from just grabbing 5 Mandalorian Crusaders free of charge and then paying 5 more Mandalorian Crusaders as mercs?

You act as if the staff are incapable of coming up with a rule or two to maintain balance.

Major factions are allowed to hire up to (insert number here) independent mercenaries or mercenary groups in addition to their five ally slots for invasions. Contracts must be set up in character prior to the start of the invasion. Mercenaries affiliated with either major faction are not allowed to be hired for invasions. Mercenaries cannot participate in two consecutive invasions involving either major faction previously involved in the prior invasion.

Add or detract what you will, it shouldn't be that hard to come up with a rule to expand our RP horizons and at least implement it on a trial run. Unwillingness to make attempts to better RP for the community is just lazy, and from what I've seen, Chaos' staff doesn't operate like that.

 

[Zeradias Mant]

[member="Ra Vizsla"]

I see the validity of your points and I firmly believe in mine, but I really don't see why this isn't something that couldn't be accommodated.

But as you suggested, let's just agree to disagree then.

 

[Ra Vizsla]

I really don't see why this isn't something that couldn't be accommodated.

of coming up with a rule or two

The problem isn't if Staff is capable or incapable, the thing you need to understand - and what I'm trying to help you understand - is that there is a barrier to entry for everything on this website.

This website only works if new people continue to join.

The bigger that barrier of entry becomes, the less people join. Even if it is only one or two.

And this potential rule - it's only a drop in the bucket. A very small drop. But still a drop.

It's not about if Staff is capable or incapable, it's if Staff is willing to increase that barrier.

Ally rules work because it is all encompassing. To mirror Valiens words,

Having special slots or rules for one type of character is a bit too over complicated for an essentially simple system.

Staff has always been against new things that it didn't think would incite the community to activity or would increase the barrier of entry. This is why so many other communities fail and we're still here. Simplicity.

Disagree or don't, but before you go for the throat, understand that this simple reason - managing overhead - is the biggest reason why any new rule no matter how small gets rejected.

 

[Tobias Wrynn]

The more rules you have, the more things get muddied.

People barely want to read or adhere to the rules that are already in place, even though they're in place to help people have the best possible time by allowing them constraints to work within that help keep things civil and organized. You start adding in little stuff like "extra slots for mercenaries," people are going to all start writing mercenaries. While Wrynn here is a merc and I'm all for a boom in the soldier of fortune economy, I think that a rule wedging people into that role and taking up slots will create more strife on top of the stuff we already try to keep to a minimum.

It's limited to x because that number keeps it to {Faction A} and {Faction B} and their authorized allies. That way, there's no confusion as to who is allowed to partake, and there's no attempt to exploit the system so that you're favored over the opposition.

We all want to have fun. That's the basis of the whole thing. I get that it's hypothetically more inclusive, but the point of these things is to be fairly exclusive. There's a lot riding on it, after all, and the point is for your faction to work cohesively and write the best possible story so that the winners can reap the rewards. Limiting the outside involvement also helps you to grow as a team, and it fosters the teamwork that the new rules have made so important.

So really, the way the rule works currently is actually in the best interest of the factions overall.

 

[Valiens Nantaris]

Besides all this, there is nothing to stop you joining a potential patron of a major faction, do some threads with them, then you can join as that faction, not an ally. IC justify all you want with IC payments, but the OOC result is the same.

But basically, we're banding semantics here with what an ally is and is not. What if a major faction has more friends than another? Should Jedi get special slots for fellow Order members because they're all Jedi?

As Ra says rules must have a reason to exist or they're just an encumbrance. Having special rules for something which is available already because we don't like the term 'ally'?

No, we're not going to do this.

 

[Salllkar volling]

so its a the enemy of my enemy is still my enemy but can be bought off thing?

 

[Matreya]

Also what would stop me from just grabbing 5 Mandalorian Crusaders free of charge and then paying 5 more Mandalorian Crusaders as mercs?

Lol. That's the most likely outcome of this scenario.

5 more "paid" bae slots.

At least then it isn't the same main 5 baes. Am I right? I have approached with the yearn to join invasions, within the past 6 months, only to be shot down as Bae slots have been taken. Merc shots would still carry over. Thus allowing those not instantly known as allies, the chance to be useful.

In other words, you say that bae slots are not bae slots.... but they are very clearly bae slots..

But then mentioning of the larger bae slot number... okay so raise the bae slot number yet still add mercs. Aren't you just a regular role player now? The ultra determined state in which you post still seems as if you post as the Admin just without the title.

 

[Matreya]

Should Jedi get special slots for fellow Order members because they're all Jedi?

....yes??? Wth? Lol


It has been a known usage multiple years in a row, including after the new invasion rules I am sure. If you are Jedi, no matter the order, you are a Jedi. I have never seen otherwise. Hell Zaiden was a DARK Jedi but was accepted as a Jedi at one point!

Strictly because it said JEDI. Yet he was a mass murdering maniac.

Either way, the point of the matter is, you wanted to shorten the number of allies, now don't want to accept that some people are guns for hire, as they were to start with.

 

[Ra Vizsla]

[member="Fos Misao"]

I recruited and taught everyone on the current SWRP Staff team for the last 4 years, so it shouldn't be a secret that I'm privy to how they think. Sorry, just trying to be helpful.

 

[Valiens Nantaris]

[member="Fos Misao"]
I meant, in so far as there are multiple Jedi groups and factions like there are now.