My short controversial review of Star Wars VII

[Apotheosis]

I used to laugh at people that would see movies two to three times before the movie finished its circuit in theaters. How could they possibly spend that much money, even if the movie was fantastic? Why would they not just wait for the movie to release to DVD, like the rest of us? Hell, even one of my favorite movies of all time (Edge of Tomorrow) I did not see in theaters more then once.

I have now joined those people, having watched Star Wars VII three times thus far.

And the ultimately weird part is this: I realized, after watching it the second time, that it is not as amazing as I once thought my first time around. Don't get me wrong, it's a good movie, definitely a good movie, but it's not the masterpiece I once saw it at first.

I started realizing this after my second showing. I was still happy when I saw the blue text after the enigmatic ending, but I didn't feel AS excited as before. After my third viewing, I started seeing some definite flaws with the movie itself.

1. It is honestly a rehash of ANH. The discovery of someone on a desert planet that can be a Jedi, the imperial bad guys led by a general/moff and a dark jedi, the honestly easy destruction of an entire space station that was literally BUILT into a planet. This entire movie is ANH with more glitter, flash and newer characters.
2. We end ROTJ with Luke facing his fear and ultimately assisting his father in bringing balance to the Force. He knows he cannot kill Vader, and defeats him like a noble jedi, refusing to give into the evil Sidious was selling. Years later, we are led to believe that Luke, destined to rebirth the Jedi, has completely fled after one of his apprentices goes haywire? It seems so out of a character for Luke, and I was waiting for something to come up in the film to explain his disappearance better. I have a hard time believing that Luke would just disappear like that, especially when his family needed him.
3. This is more of a personal flaw I have with the movie; I was not happy to see Finn using the lightsaber. We are told that the lightsaber is an elegant weapon that requires serious training to use. Luke, who is given a lightsaber in ANH, does not use the saber at all until ESB, and even then, uses it sparingly. I have a hard time believing that someone with no Jedi training at all could pick up a lightsaber and simply use it like a simple sword.
4. The lightsaber battle between Rey and Ren. Again, more of a nitpick. The battle itself was slow, lumbering, and brutal. These are not bad things. The fights were very reminiscent of the battles in the OT, but were more flashier due to it being 2015. What I have an issue with, which is not the films fault, is those that are now saying "Wow, these fights are so much better then the fights in the prequels!" An analogy I keep hearing that I hate is that the saber fighting in the prequels "looked more like dancing then fighting". Your damn right it does. These are Jedi that are trained completely in the Force and Dueling. Fighting for them is polished and more like actual swordplay. Many people do not seem to be understanding this, instead claiming that the prequels "just suck and that is why the fights suck". I actually enjoy the quick velocity of the battles in the prequels over the slowness of the OT.
5. My biggest nitpick with the film is I feel personally that many people are blinded by the nostalgia and that is it. This film is getting overwhelming reviews on several websites, and the biggest reason in my eyes is the fact that the people are just happy to get "their version of Star Wars back". I think that once the nostalgia runs off, this film will be seen as just good, but not the masterpiece many are making it out to be.

Perhaps it is merely me, and I am just crazy. Maybe I need to see it a fourth time before I can be sure.

Thoughts? Comments?

 

[Selena Halcyon]

It is honestly a rehash of ANH. The discovery of someone on a desert planet that can be a Jedi, the imperial bad guys led by a general/moff and a dark jedi, the honestly easy destruction of an entire space station that was literally BUILT into a planet. This entire movie is ANH with more glitter, flash and newer characters.

Gonna be honest, this is quite frankly the least critical view of the movie ever. Does it have some similarities in terms of general aspects, yes. But the specifics are drastically different.

We end ROTJ with Luke facing his fear and ultimately assisting his father in bringing balance to the Force. He knows he cannot kill Vader, and defeats him like a noble jedi, refusing to give into the evil Sidious was selling. Years later, we are led to believe that Luke, destined to rebirth the Jedi, has completely fled after one of his apprentices goes haywire? It seems so out of a character for Luke, and I was waiting for something to come up in the film to explain his disappearance better. I have a hard time believing that Luke would just disappear like that, especially when his family needed him.

I think it is the gravity of the failure that breaks him. Like his entire order is destroyed.

This is more of a personal flaw I have with the movie; I was not happy to see Finn using the lightsaber. We are told that the lightsaber is an elegant weapon that requires serious training to use. Luke, who is given a lightsaber in ANH, does not use the saber at all until ESB, and even then, uses it sparingly. I have a hard time believing that someone with no Jedi training at all could pick up a lightsaber and simply use it like a simple sword.

I don't think that we are ever told that it requires extensive training. Furthermore, Finn is a trained stormtrooper. Yes, he was in sanitation, but he was still a fully trained soldier. The shock trooper is testimony to the fact that they have some training. Don't overlook that. And yes, anyone can pick up a lightsaber and swing it around like a sword. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to use it. To use it proficiently sure. He's not deflecting blaster bolts or anything. He is just fighting, and not super well either. He gets handled by Kylo and the Shock Trooper.

The lightsaber battle between Rey and Ren. Again, more of a nitpick. The battle itself was slow, lumbering, and brutal. These are not bad things. The fights were very reminiscent of the battles in the OT, but were more flashier due to it being 2015. What I have an issue with, which is not the films fault, is those that are now saying "Wow, these fights are so much better then the fights in the prequels!" An analogy I keep hearing that I hate is that the saber fighting in the prequels "looked more like dancing then fighting". Your damn right it does. These are Jedi that are trained completely in the Force and Dueling. Fighting for them is polished and more like actual swordplay. Many people do not seem to be understanding this, instead claiming that the prequels "just suck and that is why the fights suck". I actually enjoy the quick velocity of the battles in the prequels over the slowness of the OT.

The reality is that honestly you can explain away the Prequel fighting as trained Jedi but it doesn't look like polished actual sword fighting. The reality is most of the attacks are obviously never going to hit anywhere. They are attacking the blade, not the person, which is not how actual combat works. The flash is dreadful because it doesn't actually look like a fight. That's always my problem with the Prequel fights. They look cool but nothing about them looks like actual combat. That is sad. Explain it away as Jedi nonsense, but it just doesn't look like combat. People like to talk about how Jedi only use a saber for defense, that's cool except they're fighting so you have to use it offensively plus they've been in a war for a few years so it just doesn't hold up.

My biggest nitpick with the film is I feel personally that many people are blinded by the nostalgia and that is it. This film is getting overwhelming reviews on several websites, and the biggest reason in my eyes is the fact that the people are just happy to get "their version of Star Wars back". I think that once the nostalgia runs off, this film will be seen as just good, but not the masterpiece many are making it out to be.

Nostalgia might play a role but the biggest thing is that this movie is by far the best shot Star Wars film. I'm also someone who likes the Prequels so I'm not some OT only guy. I like them both. But this movie is the best shot, possibly the best scripted, and I'd even go so far as to say the best acted. And by shot I'm not talking effects, though they play a role in some of the artistry. For instance, the shot where Kylo and Han are on the bridge with the beautiful light ray coming in symbolizing the light calling to Kylo. You'd never see that artistry in the OT or in the PT. They had their own way of being artistic but this was of a much higher level. We can talk about heavy handedness but that's just a cop out. It doesn't matter in the end though because it is still nice.





Seen it twice btw. Gonna see it at least one more time in the upcoming week.

 

[Captain Jordan]

possibly the best scripted

Oh, dear God, no. Especially Finn's dialogue, which was just the wooden delivery device for plot information. I do believe about half his lines were just expositionary with no actual character motivation to deliver them. Biggest example that I shake my head at:

*flashes of red light in the sky blow up celestial objects*
Finn: It's the Republic! The First Order's done it!

Wait, what? I get that Finn has inside information into this weapon and knows that something's going to go boom. But you see lights in the sky and you immediately connect the dots? What about a space battle? Or fireworks? I mean, this is the Star Wars universe, I gotta think there's a more mundane explanation than "OMG, I just witnessed the new superweapon!"

And finally, how is that line even helpful? We see random dots in the sky vanish and suddenly we know this is the Republic? No explanation's been given. No background, no characters just standing around chatting and going "Oh, hey, you can see the Republic capital from here." I don't know that the Resistance base is in the same system as the Republic capital (and how stupid is that? Seriously!) and unless you're telling me that light can suddenly now travel faster than the Millennium Falcon, there's no way that the Republic capital's destruction could be seen from anywhere else in the galaxy.

But the movie thrives on moments like this. We get a line, seemingly from out of nowhere, thrown at us and we're expected to comprehend it. And fast, because the next shiny new plot device is heading our way! Or a new fight has begun! Don't think, don't breathe, just blink, nod and keep watching. It's intended to glue me to my seat, and it just makes the script out to be amateur.

I agree with just about everything that [member="Apotheosis"] says. I think this is a movie made for people who are fans of the idea of Star Wars. The cultural fans, not franchise fans. These are people who own a few toys and think themselves collectors, or watch the movies every once in a while but have no idea why "Han shot first" is important. I'm not saying these are bad people. But these aren't fans.

And this movie isn't really Star Wars. It's not JJ Abrams, filmmaker, making this movie. It's JJ, a kid from 1977, making the movie of his childhood dreams.

 

[Selena Halcyon]

I am a huge franchise fan so to hear your analysis is as this is just for cultural fans is insulting.

The thing that's also exactly how people talk. Finn's reaction is natural and exactly what I'd expect to hear someone say.

 

[Jsc]

Thoughts? Comments?

I left the theater having completely experienced a absolutely wonderful affair. Filled and renewed with a love of the Star Wars genre. That for me declared success well enough. 10/10. Would see 3 more times.

Now. Hardcore fans or self-appointed 'critics' seem to have this overwhelming need to nitpick this movie. Many saying that it is their 'love' that demands it so. That's fine. Whatever. But it's not what I learned to do from having that experience. I don't kiss a beautiful woman then poke at her flaws. That ain't a lesson of love to me. Hard counter. I learned the same love lesson that George Lucas mentioned at the premiere. To let go of the old Star Wars and embrace a new one. To respect that Disney is doing something new and on their own terms. And that's okay. I learned to smile like George did and say, Hey. Let's just enjoy the ride.

So like apples and oranges. Lucas and Disney. Movies and the EU. I've learned not to compare them. I've learned not to embrace a new love and then hold her up in my mind according to her flaws alone. That is what TFA taught me. That is what George taught me. I've learned to let go and just enjoy being free.

So Apothesis here's what I'd say to you, "Don't over think a good thing."

This silly goofy spacey movie can mean to you whatever you want it to. And you don't need a logical explanation to love it, you don't need a scientific 10 out of 10 numbered mix to uphold it, and you certainly don't need to rationalize your feelings for it either. It is perfectly fine in regard to something as stupid as Hollywood cinema to just leave the theater and say, That was pretty great. The end. Because while Star Wars can be a 'cultural phenomenon' held only in the esteem of dollars made and some Megacritic's review? Well. It can also be just yours, too.

 

[Apotheosis]

The specifics are different? Not by much. A droid ends up having plans for something that can alter a war between two factions greatly. This droid needs to be taken to a planet before the evil, bad empire catches up to it. The person that finds it is a force-sensitive person that ends up being thrust "into destiny" and aids the resistance against the big baddies. Along the way, the hero meets a mentor who is eventually killed by the big baddie. Furthermore, the ending is just like ANH as well, with Starkiller Base being attacked by 20 or so X-Wings (No Y-Wings or B-Wings? Really?). The specifics may change, but ultimately, the product is almost exactly the same. The characters have changed and the names of the factions have changed.

Luke was trained by two Jedi that literally watched their entire Order pulled apart by politics and the Sith. You would imagine that having it happen to him would strengthen him, not make him run off in a corner of the galaxy.

Like I said, the Finn using the lightsaber was more of a nitpick. He does get bested pretty easily, which I was happy with.

I always saw saber play as being the Force guiding the Jedi/Sith's hands. Its like the Jedi and his opponent could reach one another's moves and were counter-moving over and over again until someone slips up. Its why Obi-Wan and Anakin's fight goes on for so long. Both have fought so many times together, they know the other's moves incredibly well. Moves and counter-moves until someone screws up and gets their limbs chopped off.

The best? I cannot disagree more. To me, personally, ESB is the best Star Wars film for many reasons, many of which I will not list as there are far too many of them. While some of the acting in this was superb, (Daisy is fantastic and Adam did a great job as a villain.) some of the acting felt very wooden to me.

My biggest gripe is I finally felt like we were going to be getting a grandiose, strong Star Wars film. Something epic, filled with space battles, fleets, military action, etc. It's been thirty years since the fall of the Empire. In that thirty years, the Republic was defeated by a single super-weapon? Seriously? I was expecting Starkiller Base to be attacked by a huge fleet of Republic starships, resulting in a large, amazing battle. Abrams has shown great effect with that in Star Trek, why not show it here? Its practically begging. I am not an overall fan of the EU at all, but at least the war between the Rebellion/Alliance and the Empire was more interesting then this.

I feel like you may think this was the best scripted just because Lucas wasn't touching the material with his grubby fingers. Granted, I do not think the prequels deserve ALL of the flak it gets, but yes, the writing in them is pretty bad. I feel like nostalgia might be clouding judgement of people the world over.

[member="Selena Halcyon"]

I agree. I absolutely hate fast plot devices, and Abrams is really bad at this. Look at LOST or Star Trek and you can definitely see it. ANH was slow in its development for the most part, and the only plot devices were "The evil galactic Empire has built a huge space station that can blow up planets. Holy crap. We need to destroy that thing even though we are incredibly low on manpower and arms."

[member="Captain Jordan"]

That is actually my issue with this new film. You are telling me that I should let go of the old Star Wars and embrace the new that Disney is bringing. I would love to! But when Disney releases a new Star Wars movie, paints the word "NEW" on the cover, and practically reuses plot points from the first Star Wars, it's hard for me to not compare the two. You cannot ask me to embrace the new when the new looks JUST like the old but with new paint and wheels.

[member="Jay Scott Clark"]

 

[Selena Halcyon]

I always saw saber play as being the Force guiding the Jedi/Sith's hands. Its like the Jedi and his opponent could reach one another's moves and were counter-moving over and over again until someone slips up. Its why Obi-Wan and Anakin's fight goes on for so long. Both have fought so many times together, they know the other's moves incredibly well. Moves and counter-moves until someone screws up and gets their limbs chopped off.

Since this is more of a point of actual discussion because I just disagree with you on a fundamental level on everything else this at least is something that can be argued. Length of the fine could account for what you're saying. Here is my way to debunk this though. Aight, so all of what you say would be fine if their moves were actually aggressive. RotS is exceptionally bad at having the sabers literally move around the outside of people's bodies and not even be angled towards the body. That's not believable combat at all. That's just flash. That's the problem. As far as until someone screws up. The only time people lose a limb is when they literally pause in position for forever. Seriously, the only one which fluidly handled that kind of thing was the TPM fight. But anakin loses his arm and dooku his hands in the dumbest, prolonged stationary moment ever.

 

[Onrai]

My biggest issue is that Kylo Ren is basically Jacen Solo, but renamed.

 

[Selena Halcyon]

My biggest issue is that Kylo Ren is basically Jacen Solo, but renamed.

Patently false. Jacen Solo fell due to his pragmatic ideas and idealism. He wanted to try and fix the galaxy. While no doubt Kylo Ren is justify his actions his fall seems far more to do with a combination of emotional volatility and abandonement issues. Completely different

 

[Jynx]

Why is it a "Resistance" against the First Order which is supposed to be an imperial remnant pushed out to the outer rims? It really should just be the new Republic hunting down the last parts of the empire. And how does an imperial remnant get the funding for a new star destroyer 2.0 and a super galaxy gurren Death Star V3

 

[Selena Halcyon]

Why is it a "Resistance" against the First Order which is supposed to be an imperial remnant pushed out to the outer rims? It really should just be the new Republic hunting down the last parts of the empire. And how does an imperial remnant get the funding for a new star destroyer 2.0 and a super galaxy gurren Death Star V3

This is explained in Aftermath. The Republic largely demilitarized and became peaceful not wanting to be like the Empire. the Empire pulled into the unknown regions away from everything and rebuilt. They've been doing everything largely in quiet up until recently. Very straight forward. There is also a point where one has to allow for suspension of disbelief, and understand that is not SciFi but a Fantasy Space Opera. It is not built entirely upon realism.

 

[Jynx]

[member="Selena Halcyon"]

Ahh, that makes waaaay more sense now

 

[GhostOfProtocol]

Patently false. Jacen Solo fell due to his pragmatic ideas and idealism. He wanted to try and fix the galaxy. While no doubt Kylo Ren is justify his actions his fall seems far more to do with a combination of emotional volatility and abandonement issues. Completely different

[member="Selena Halcyon"]

It looks like Kylo fell more because of who his grandfather was. Leia even states that he has too much Vader in him. I kind of got the whole idea that he fell to the dark because of that, because he had some idea that he could be the next Vader.

Saying that though I have a simple nit pick I have to make. How do you mess up if you are striving to be Vader? How the heck do you build a superweapon with a bigger weapon than the Death Star?

 

[Darth Carnifex]

Plus the New Republic didn't take the First Order seriously, hence why Leia had to form her own faction to combat it with Republic funding, but the Republic wasn't about to commit itself to any sort of aggressive engagement.

And then they got Pearl Harbor'd.

A good percentage of their fleet was based at the Hosnian system along with the Republic's then capital Hosnian Prime.

 

[Gabriel Sionoma]

I was thinking about this on a drive yesterday but I loved loved the saber fights in this movie. They were raw and emotional but also showed that they lacked a certain finality. It was the first time I could recall people getting hit repeatedly and not dying or being delimbed from it. Which might go towards a number of things (lack of training, different intent, etc). But it blew the whimsical choreography of the prequels out of the water, in my opinion.

[member="Captain Jordan"]

Missed your bit. You are pretty far off, in my opinion. His reaction shows specifically how much his entire existence, from being taken as a child, is based around the first order. Of course anything he sees is gonna be the first order, it is all Finn ever knew. Also, the franchise verse cultural fan concept is so blatantly immersed in the 'no true scotsman' fallacy that it's almost jarring to see it stated so seriously (as it's not the first time I've seen it in reference to this movie)

 

[Malia Afredane]

I agree with just about everything that [member="Apotheosis"] says. I think this is a movie made for people who are fans of the idea of Star Wars. The cultural fans, not franchise fans. These are people who own a few toys and think themselves collectors, or watch the movies every once in a while but have no idea why "Han shot first" is important. I'm not saying these are bad people. But these aren't fans.

Since when do you get to be the gatekeeper of what it means to be a fan of something? This attitude is disgusting and toxic and pervasive in the geek community. You don't have to be a cosplaying member of the 501st to be a fan. You don't have to know what "Han shot first" means to be a fan. There are no degrees to fandom. There is no test to pass to prove to anyone that you are worthy enough to be a fan of something. If you like Star Wars, you're a fan. End of story.

 

[Selena Halcyon]

You don't have to know what "Han shot first" means to be a fan.

More specifically, what it means to CERTAIN fans. Every time I watch the films it is blatantly obvious the Han is not a character who is actually a scoundral. He's rough around the edges, but he actually never is the kind of guy who would just shoot someone for threatening him. Him shooting at the same time is fine, and honestly plenty in line with everything you see about Han in all the movies. The guy who shot first would never come back to help Luke at the Death Star. We can talk character growth all you want, but that'd be in an awfully short time with little actual impetus to the change.

 

[Captain Jordan]

[member="Selena Halcyon"]

I am a huge franchise fan so to hear your analysis is as this is just for cultural fans is insulting.

The thing that's also exactly how people talk. Finn's reaction is natural and exactly what I'd expect to hear someone say.

Even if so, where was the reaction? The characters around Finn just nod and bumble along, as if Finn just unveiled the greatest knowledge gem in the universe to them, rather than a tense moment of conflict and confusion that it should have been. The First Order had just blown up the Republic capital, why was there absolutely no reaction to that? Okay, Starkiller Base = Bad is a reaction, but they knew that already. How about "OMFG, the Republic is just gone!"?

Anyway, I know I'm obviously not the fan that Abrams made this movie for, that's what I'm talking about. But that's also my problem. He made a new Star Trek that I can't enjoy, and now he made a new Star Wars that I can't enjoy, and much of the removal of elements that I enjoyed so much about Star Wars seems like a deliberate attempt to foist the story onto a new generation, spurning the old. Some can adapt, as obviously seen here, and some never knew the difference. But I know I'm definitely not alone in my opinion that this movie is seriously lacking some of the core Star Wars elements, not to mention suffering from pacing, poor dialogue and plot holes galore. The movie isn't bad as a whole (even if it is just A New Hope: Redux), but it's not topping any of the OT movies for me.

 

[Selena Halcyon]

foist the story onto a new generation, spurning the old.

You are way in the minority when it comes to that opinion.

this movie is seriously lacking some of the core Star Wars elements

Oh please do tell me what this is missing.

 

[Onrai]

Patently false. Jacen Solo fell due to his pragmatic ideas and idealism. He wanted to try and fix the galaxy. While no doubt Kylo Ren is justify his actions his fall seems far more to do with a combination of emotional volatility and abandonement issues. Completely different

He's the son of Han and Leia and grandson of Vader, who was originally trained as a Jedi, who was seduced to the Dark Side by another non-Sith Darksider, who ended up taking a position of power within an Imperial Remnant faction formed after their defeat at the hands of the Rebellion, after the New Republic is formed, also confronting his parents at a given point. He's also utilizes a customized, seemingly unique Star Destroyer to perform his dirty work. Not to mention the level of family issues he has at this point clearly mirrors the antagonism his EU counterpart experienced towards his parents during the Corellian rebellion.

The level of coincidences are far too many for someone to tell me that this isn't essentially a tinkered-with Jacen Solo that was adapted for this universe.