Star Wars Roleplay: Chaos

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

My thoughts...

Alright, thought I'd start a little debate, and discuss a few thoughts on how this went, now I've seen it for a second time.

Now, I've seen and heard a lot of different perspectives on the kid, and I thought I'd offer my take on it:
  • Although he does appear to be whiny and conflicted (emo, even), I think that's absolutely perfect for what I suspect Abrams is trying to convey: the idea of a boy trying to become a man, living in the shadow of his Grandfather and parents (all of whom were major figures in Galactic history), unable to really pick a side, and struggling to know what exactly it is he wants.
  • Vader started out as pure evil in A New Hope, the very definition of a bad guy, and tops many 'most evil' lists simply because his portrayal was strong, certain (and a massive contrast to his later Anakin persona). I think, in some ways, Kylo is being presented as Anakin with a Dark Side starter: he's a 'Sith' conflicted by the Light, rather than a Jedi conflicted about the Dark. It's a bit of a shift, but a clever one, because now the whole trilogy centres around which way he's gonna go: will he be Vader, or will he be Anakin redeemed into the Light?
  • I'm not going to win any fans by saying this, but the way he killed Han was absolutely spot on. Sith demand sacrifice: unless they;re willing to let go of everything, they can't effectively be Sith. We learned that with the whole Darth Caedus spiral, and Abrams has played it out beautifully there - even the imagery was great, because while the local sun was dying, you had that gorgeous red-and-blue light tableau, that shifted to complete red as the sun died: what more subtle way to represent the conflict at play there? Ben showed that he wasn't man enough to do what he needed to do to become Sith, but when Han said he would do anything, that gave him what he needed, and he acted on it by sacrificing his own father. That's genius.
  • Also want to throw out the point that Kylo/Ben is being massively manipulated by Snoke - I think the fact that both Han and Leia believed this shows exactly why Ben is so conflicted. Looks to me like Snoke is playing on his heritage (i.e. Vader) as a means of nudging Ben towards the Dark Side, but the kid himself isn't sure, because he doesn't entirely want to be a bad person. Where Abrams failed is in explaining that: why does Kylo feel the tug of the Light? It might be because of Luke/Han/Leia, but that's very poorly explained. The only indications we get are in his behaviour towards Rey, and the fact that he sees her as someone he could train and mould in the ways of the Force - maybe there's that sense of kinship? He does mention when interrogating her that he knows that she sees Han Solo as a surrogate father. Maybe by turning her, he feels like it might justify his turn? Does make me wonder.
  • Okay, maybe I'm too used to EU/Legends Grandmaster Luke Skywalker, but I did not buy the premise of the film: that Luke trained his Jedi, had one turn bad and thus found himself a failure and ran. That's not the Luke Skywalker we know: the one that risked everything to redeem his father, and certainly not the Luke who tries to turn Gantoris, redeem Kyp Durron, and even tries to save his own nephew from being a Sith Lord. We all know that Luke would move Heaven and Earth trying to redeem someone that had fallen - so what the hell? Why would he run away? Only thing I can think of: either Snoke is too powerful for Luke (unlikely), or Skywalker thought he might find something at the 'First' Jedi Temple that might help. Either one seems like a pretty weak explanation, and I don't buy it.
  • It was clever to save him until last, but I honestly didn't think they'd set up the reveal that fast: if Luke's disappeared and people have spent so much time and energy finding him, it doesn't make much sense to find him so damn fast. Also: both R2-D2 and the Imperial Archives had 80% of the map? Who the hell created the map, and why? And what was it doing buried in the Imperial Archives - if Luke created it, you'd expect it to be in the hands of the Republic/Resistance, not buried where the First Order would get hold of it. I guess maybe they were referring more to the First Jedi Temple than to Luke specifically, but it's still a rather weak plotline.
  • The way they've written Luke at this point makes me think that he's going to step into Obi-Wan's shoes a little bit, and be the wise detached mentor, rather than the major player he used to be. Why? Because they all speak of him as a major player: the First Order's out to kill him, and the Resistance act like he'll be their saviour, and help rid the Galaxy of the First Order. That's a lot of expectation, but also places him in a god-like position where he's a game-changer. Something tells me that he's going to shy away from this, and perhaps mentor Rey to take on the role that he had in the first Trilogy.
  • On a related note, about the lack of dialogue: I've heard a lot of complaints about that, and I actually think it's a touch of genius, because I don't think Luke is gonna be happy to see Rey. She brought a lightsaber which has a lot of memories attached to it, combined with the fact that (if we accept the premise that Luke ran because of Ben) she's a Force Sensitive sitting on his doorstep. Maybe he's thinking "Oh, god, what if I screw up again?", or "What if she asks for my guidance and I make a mess of it?", or something along those lines. If that's truly the reason for his absence, I think it would make that initial reticence pretty powerful. Also, let's be honest, what could he say at that point that wouldn't require a 20-30 minute explanation, and lots of additional scenes? Keeping it short, Abrams...
Gotta be honest, I've got tons more thoughts, but I'll start with those and see if anyone's in an argumentative mood :p

Oh, and btw, did anyone think it was weird that the Millenium Falcon is smaller? Definitely doesn't look like the same ship we're all used to.
 
[member="Tirdarius"]


Luke/Rey
How do you feel about possibility of Rey being Luke's daughter? The end scene shows Luke a bit emotional at the sight of her. She is strong in the Force that hints to either her heritage or previous training. I feel enough hints were dropped about Rey to make her a Skywalker throughout the film. The use of themes(musically & visually) tying the two together. They both comment on how the Falcon looks like a piece of junk. The Skywalker 'family' lightsaber reacts to her in a massive way.


What if Luke hid Rey away because he's worried about the fate of the Jedi? Perhaps Luke made a discovery after Ben/Kylos turn that could be a powerful weapon in the galaxy? A piece of information that couldn't fall into the wrong hands? Rey suddenly is hidden away to become his backup plan in case he fails? With her finding him, if this is true, I could see how reluctant he would be to bring her out of hiding. She's the fail safe in the plan.
 
The Republic.
So, why did nobody care about the Republic? They only showed it when it was being destroyed, and nobody really seemed to care. The rebels didn't seem to notice even though they were their biggest ally.
 
[member="Judah Dashiell"]

If I'm honest, I hope Rey is someone new - if they start making all these connections, they're gonna make it seem like a really small Galaxy. I also would like to think that, if Rey is Luke's daughter, he wouldn't be dumb enough to abandon her on some isolated planet and hope that her Force Sensitivity didn't emerge and get herself into trouble - nothing more dangerous than an untrained Force Sensitive running around. It just doesn't fit with the Luke we know - I can't see it happening unless Luke didn't know about her, and she was hidden away by Mom or Leia.
 
[member="Judah Dashiell"]

Gotta be honest, I felt Abrams went too far with that - she's stronger even than Luke in this respect, and picked up on a lot without realistically knowing anything much about the Jedi. Where'd the Mind Trick come from? How'd she know how to do that? I've had some speculate that she's the granddaughter of Obi-Wan, but even that'd be a longshot. There's a lot that needs to be explained there, and I hope the next film will do that! Or the books, maybe.
 
[member="Tirdarius"]

I've seen the granddaughter of Obi-Wan thing. I agree its a longshot but we do hear Obi-Wan yelling "Rey!" during the flashback. Which is probably adding fuel to that fire.


[member="Invalid Username"]

Perhaps the Republic grew corrupt? Couldn't agree on how to form a new galactic collation?
 
Honestly, they could have done a better job with the New Republic, because they barely got screentime, but I guess they felt like that might have complicated things too much - the Resistance vs First Order was designed to make it a very 1v1 situation, much as we had in the Original Trilogy, and including the New Republic as anything other than an after-thought might have made it a much more nuanced scenario. My inclination is to say that the idea of the Resistance was to insulate the Republic from that little war: political focus on the NR, combat against the First Order being the job of the Resistance, particularly since there's supposed to be a treaty in place between the Republic and what I will always think of as the Imperial Remnant.

That and they did want to display small-time rebels vs big, powerful autocracy, so to bring the New Republic in was ultimately going to reduce that: the Republic have more military assets available, judging by some of the things said on-screen, and with that level of firepower, you'd have been talking orbital bombardment with Star Destroyers/Capital Ships rather than the two-dozen snubfighters vs the 'Empire' platform that we got.

I can see that possibility, but I'm honestly hoping that Rey is just a new Force Sensitive without the complicated background connecting her to everyone else - let's be honest, having Han and Leia's son having fought Luke's daughter without knowing it, particularly on top of the "Finn is probably Lando's kid" speculation is...ridiculous. She's out in the middle of nowhere, thrust into the centre of galactic events in a purely coincidental way...that would go towards massive levels of implausibility, on a scale that only the Force could explain/be used as a get-out-clause. It would be really rather cheap, truth be told.

As for her abilities...I enjoyed that, honestly, but she was pretty strong for an untrained Force Sensitive, and had way more control than she should have done. It doesn't sit well with me, particularly when a lot of us aim for higher-end realism in our writing here (and if anyone here did something that cheap...I'd class it as bad writing!), but it did move the story along. Sadly, it does lead to a truckload of speculation - and I'm not entirely sure that that wasn't the point. Abrams is playing everything very close to the vest on this one, and the film creates more questions than it answered, which at least ensures that butts will definitely be in seats for EpVIII.

But yeah...simple answer, only the Force knows!
 
Tirdarius said:
That's not the Luke Skywalker we know
Right, it's not. Everything you mention is from Legends canon and now no longer considered.

I agree him giving up and becoming a mcguffin is a bit lame. I hope he does something next movie.



Judah Dashiell said:
How do you feel about possibility of Rey being Luke's daughter? The end scene shows Luke a bit emotional at the sight of her.
I agree this sounds like the best option.
 
Luke went into hiding because Kylo and the Knights of Ren butchered every member of the fledgling order save for Luke himself, who personally held himself accountable for not being able to prevent this tragedy from happening and basically went into a depressing now that all he had worked towards to rebuild the Jedi was destroyed utterly.

[member="Tirdarius"]
 
[member="Darth Vornskr"] And that's the part I honestly don't buy. With Ren that much of a threat, you'd figure Luke would either set his sights on redeeming the guy or just ending the threat. Running away and burying your head in the sand because you feel guilty...that's just not Luke Skywalker.
 
[member="Darth Vornskr"] Yeah, I recognise that he's different, but even when you compare him to the Skywalker that worked his ass off to redeem Vader, right up to the point where Palpatine was doing his level best to kill him just for the attempt... Just doesn't seem like the guy that would cut and run because things are getting awkward or difficult. Makes me think that there's another reason for it that we're not aware of yet.
 
[member="Darth Vornskr"] Mhm, but that strikes me as making it something you'd want to correct, or at least minimise the damage from. Walking away, he's just given Kylo and Snoke free reign to do whatever the hell they want, and he had to have known that. Not very Jedi of him, to walk away from such a massive threat, knowing that leaving it unresolved would lead to a lot of death and suffering. Failing to deal with Ben makes every death thereafter Luke's responsibility.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top Bottom