Proposition: "Ship Killers" 'used with permission'

[Captain Larraq]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFTUazuGdTw


So... I'm a big fan of the kind of fleet combat that you can see in this video. And I love when I get the opportunity to play around with formations and tactics similar to what's show in the video. But something that this board really doesn't have is "Super-Capital Weapons" or 'semi-superweapon' technologies.

And I know that a lot of you are already looking for the 'down-vote' button already, but hear me out on this one.

One of the major reasons this board does not allow for superweapons is because we do not want to have writers going around destroying planets or one-shotting enemy players, ships, fleets, and armies. We do it for fairness and balance and preventative butt-hurtery.

But what if it was agreed upon? For instance... Each faction is allowed one or two "superweapon" technologies. Said superweapon-equipped-ship can only make up about 10% of an overall fleet. And can ONLY BE USED when the opposing faction admin or primary fleeter approves of the use of the ship/weapon. The weapons can only be used against other ships (never planets) that are above 1,500 meters in length, and can only be fired... once per five "posts" that the owning character writes for that naval battle.

What you're basically getting is a very big ship that can One-shot other ships with the approval of the defending player. And the defending player also gets to bring big, one-shotting ships to the engagement. Because... Well, lets face it. If each side is using 40,000 or more meters in total ships... auto-losing one of the big ships isn't a super "game over" event. And with Sith and Jedi both using Force Crush, Throw Asteroid, and Create Sun to destroy ships and fleets in the blink of an eye over a single post.... Why are we not allowing someone to point a giant laser at a Star Destroyer and get the same effect?



Aaaaanyway... Just thought it might be an idea worth tossing around between the people who it would most effect (the people that fleet).

 

[Marmora]

I'm all for Super Weapons, it's what Star Wars was more or less built around. The Rebellion bringing down the Empire by bringing down this massive symbol of power and terror that was the Death Star. However I do not believe that we should be throwing them around to let anyone have them. If anything, they should remain restricted and much like Christmas decorations, be pulled out at the appropriate time (as in a staff run board wide event.)

 

[Valiens Nantaris]

Nay.

 

[Ragnar Fett]

I agree with esme here we should only allow super weapons to be only used for events .

 

[Onrai]

I believe the restrictions should be either removed, redone, or simply eased. I can't put proton beam cannons on a ship, simply because staff says "proton beams form part of the tributary beams that form part of the concave dish composite beam superlaser the Death Star uses, therefore they must be a superweapon," despite the main gun of the Adamantine having previously been a proton beam(and having not been overpowered or metagamed during its use in Dark Harvest).

 

[Darth Voracitos]

We've had superweapon esque weapons on the board before, such as that event that destroyed a planet that started with a D, and Omega Pyre was all like "Remember D..."

So perhaps those worried with personal abuse of such items of power, why not make its power source be the polling system? The faction that initiates the poll is not allowed to vote, and everyone else is. If they say yes, the weapon fires, if no then it malfunctions. This gives it a randomized chance of doing super-awesome stuff at the appropriate time, and at the appropriate times only. Additionally, it should have to be approved by a Role-play judge following the Invasion sequence (since that is a likely location that this would be taking place), just so that staff is involved in the decision.

Perhaps, since this is a superweapon after all, it requires a hecka-ton of dev threads, and by hecka-ton, I mean like the size of Popo+Me amount of work, and it has to have threads that are working towards its development start by more than one person (so a single person can't claim ownership over it). Also, perhaps there should be a certain length of life a Major Faction must have before constructing it, and it must have the ascent of the faction member base majority.

Then yeah, all of what Cap says.

Because honestly, Captain has a point. If force users can get so powerful than can create stars, and chuck asteroids around, or other huge area effects that turn the course of such battles (or not in the case of a Dark Star ), then one of two things need to happen. Make a way for game changers to be available for non-uber forcers, or "ask" (read as staff command) that those things be toned down... just a smidgen, or at least restrict how HUUUUGICALS there area effects are.

 

[Beowoof]

What [member="Esme Vixen"] said.

[member="Darth Voracitos"]' idea is cool, but it's way too easy for other factions to abuse if it gives them an upper hand on the galactic scale.

 

[Darth Voracitos]

[member="Beowoof"] Ah come on, don't you want to have an arms race?

Then again, I can't imagine staff would approve of anything that could affect things galactically no matter how much work you put into it. Any superweapon addition plan would be brought down to a fleeting level where there is just a higher advantage. Also, perhaps rules could be but into place as to how many escort vessel can surround the weapon, to give the enemy the benefit of superior numbers, since in reality that superweapon is going to use a up a LOT of power, and you most likely won't be able to pool in a whole lot of resources for the other ships in the fleet, and balances out the pros of a superweapon. Sure you can have this super awesome thing that takes five posts to set up for pre-fire and public vote saying go ahead with a rpj approving it, that can obliterate some shiz to pieces, but its also going to be hard to defend because you can't field as many things to protect it from interruption.

 

[Beowoof]

[member="Darth Voracitos"] I meant the vote tally to determine if the big red button is pressed. Say the CIS is under attack by the Fringers. If the Republic and the Horde and the Crusade are feeling pressure from the CIS, they'll vote for the weapon to fire. Then it's all just politically driven and no 'luck' of the population to it.

It's a cool idea, but too easy to be taken advantage of by interested parties.

 

[Darth Voracitos]

[member="Beowoof"] Ahhh, I understand now. That makes a lot more sense. Then again, you also have to consider that if members from all sorts of factions are voting, somewhere along the line it'll balance out... or something like that.

But I do see that happening now since you've mentioned it. Makes sense to be apprehensive about it.

 

[Captain Larraq]

@_@


Please keep in mind that I'm talking about ship-to-ship weapons that can kill a capital ship in a single blow. The most 'super damage' they can do is to maybe bring down a planetary shield after several minutes of continuous fire / several posts of "I'm shooting now. Someone come blow this thing up."

I'm not entertaining the idea of giving writers the means of destroying planets at will. I'm talking about Composite-Beam-Lasers at a capital ship scale, Heavy, Long Range Hypervelocity Cannons, Super-Heavy Ion Beam Cannons, Mass-Driver Asteroid Chuckers, and whatever other crazy weapons people can come up with to wipe out a Command Ship in a single shot or bring down a planetary shield with a couple of volleys.

I am not talking about a proper "Death Star" or planet-killing weapon.

 

[Darth Voracitos]

Even still, there is room for abuse on the fleet level. Person X brings in A number of vessels to defend some planet, then Person Y comes over and brings over B number of vessels with a superweapon. In the IC they are all like, "Oh chit, blow that crap up", on the OOC you are all like "Can I use it pretty please?" and then they just say... "Nope" and then rolfstomp a creation of yours that you undoubtedly spent a helluva amount of time creating hoping to implement it one day, when nearly all of your opposition is just going to Supahwepon-cock-block you all day long.

So in terms of abuse, it just going to be that nobody likes losing ships to them, so they'll just say no on the OOC and somehow they'll be useless IC. The abuse is on the enemy side I believe, not the superweapon side.

Also there is the trouble of defining a superweapon even at that level, that could lead to people trying to find loop holes that allows them to use a supahwepon that doesn't require permission from the opponent to use, or something similar to that extent.

 

[Darth Armyss]

I would say yes, with permission from the defender and/or faction leader, and with prior approval by the mods, the number of mods varying depending on the type of weapon. If we're talking about a giant turbolaser of the kind seen on some CIS capital ships that are basically designed to one-shot smaller capital ships and overload the shields on larger ones, that's one thing, but I would still stay away from anything like a superlaser of any sort.

 

[Fabula Caromed]

This happening is about as likely as the Bluehawks being the next big galactic superpower.

 

[Nyxie]

Composite-Beam-Lasers at a capital ship scale, Heavy, Long Range Hypervelocity Cannons, Super-Heavy Ion Beam Cannons, Mass-Driver Asteroid Chuckers

Just speaking from perspective, here;
Capital Composite-Beam Cannons are a no because they're precursor Death Star stuff. Capital Heavy Long-Range Composite-Beam Cannon is an inevitable, and that's cutting it close to the supercannon on the DS.

Heavy Long-Range Hypervelocity Cannons are a no because they have theoretical infinite range (no velocity is actually infinite in space) and ridiculous post-mass accelerator speeds. Basically, you could snipe a planet or fleet or station from billions of miles away.

Super-Heavy Ion Cannons - We have that already. It's called Heavy Long-Range. Besides, ion cannons do very minimal physical damage.

Mass Driver Asteroid Throwers are the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. A 2km asteroid can split the earth. Imagine what people will try to do with that kind of thing here. Our map will become very small, very fast.

That all said, I voted option two, but would assume they require ridiculous development threads and the mutual agreement of the majority of both parties involved, with a predictable outcome agreed upon. Simply put, it can kill a whole lot of people in a very little timeframe, can't be avoided, and most people don't like losing their precious player-characters on a whim.

TL;DR: Not worth. So no.

 

[Lief]

No.

The restriction is in place for a reason. If you read the rule itself it is possible to request use of one with the permission of the Staff Team as a whole where Galactic Events and the like are concerned.

There shouldn't even be a vote with this, as it will not change anything. This is not your decision to be making, [member="Captain Larraq"] - nor was it even remotely brought up with Staff prior to this thread.

 

[Nyxie]

No need to jump the gun. Like all his other stuff, he was just looking for insight and what we, as fellow roleplayers, personally thought and felt about it. Nowhere did it say anywhere in stone (or at all) that it was anything official.

Edit: Yes. Proposition to us fleeters, not you staff.

 

[Fabula Caromed]

This thread is titled "proposition." The proposition has been denied. Superweapons will continue to face the same restrictions as they always have.

 

[Beowoof]

Whether it will ever be allowed or not, I think it's unfair to dispense with civility towards someone who was just trying to present an idea. I think we should look at this as an opportunity to brainstorm and devise fair and innovative solutions as we survey the boundaries. As previously mentioned, Force users have quite the advantage.

Leadership does not entail being rude.

 

[Fabula Caromed]

The perceived "advantage" of Force users over NFUs is a discussion for Roleplay Discussion, not the Factory. If you want to start a thread there about it, feel free. There have been several already, and there will no-doubt be more in the future.

However, this is Factory discussion, and this is Factory policy. All restrictions on superweapons will persist. No one is allowed access to them without explicit staff sanction, due to the extreme potential for abuse. Whatever the member opinion on this is, the staff policy will not change.

So once again, no, it's not changing. Feel free to continue your discussion and brainstorm potential regulations for superweapons.