Quality of posts

[Marius]

Simply said, I've noticed a 'trend' of posts that lack a certain degree of quality. Too short, undescriptive and sometimes lacking common sense. This in result, at least personally, limits my own posts in return. The lack of description of surroundings, of a character's feelings and their expressions limit my alternatives of reactions. I won't continue on ranting, moreover I do not mean by this that posts are supposed to be PhD-length long, instead I'd like to know what do you believe is the best way to improve the overall quality of writers' posts.

 

[Ellie Mors]

[member="Marius"]
Get emotionally invested with your character.

Then let the depression flow through you as you write.

 

[Laith Varad*]

Experience. There is no doubt in my mind that experience is the overall best way to improve a writers posts. A Writer who writes more will inevitably write better as they hone their craft in my opinion. As a play by post site Chaos is a community of both veteran and inexperienced writers. Many of the posts you mention may have been written by individuals who have only been writing for a short period of time. Encouragement and advice are ways to help them evolve as well.

That said I also know writers who make small posts but make them better than their larger counterparts.

[member="Marius"]

 

[Ryn'Dhal]

[member="Marius"]

My personal rule of thumb, when I was learning how to roleplay, was to try to at least MEET my writing partner, at least as far as content went. If they wrote a two or three paragraph post to read, I felt it'd be a horrible insult for me to not at least come close to that. In time, I learned I didn't have write fifteen paragraphs if they did. I just needed to craft a quality read. But still, I feel it's a good rule of thumb to try to put as much into the scene as you took away from it.

RPing is a spar. It's a back and forth. And unfortunately, when writers refuse to actually give, it brings it all down. And I've watched threads where excellent.... no, outstanding writers, were laid low by a relatively inexperienced writing partner. And yes, I can readily forgive inexperience. We've ALL been there, beginning with little stumbling posts.... But, I have great difficulty in forgiving and excusing someone who refuses to try to improve. Even when I've made simple suggestions and given advice on methods to try to help them to improve.

Am I an expert? No. Am I great? Kark no. But do I try to offer as much as I receive? Yes, feth yes I try. That's all I want, is to see everyone working together, trying to make beautiful stories for everyone else to read. :-3

 

[Dune Rhur]

Write what you know. Make your character have experiences like you have had.

 

[sabrina]

[member="Marius"] it is co operative, and not every one is at the same level fo writing. If you a problem with any aspect of their post shot them a pm, and explain in reasonable terms, and it might get some more clarity.

 

[Marius]

[member="Marius"]

Then let the depression flow through you as you write.

I feel ya.

Experience.

[member="Marius"]

I concur. Experience, in all aspects of life, is the best teacher. In my opinion, of course. Yet most often do you not believe that if one is to learn he has to be 'reprimanded' ? I do not mean offensively assaulting one's writing quality but pointing areas for improvement. The first step of solving a problem is recognizing it.

[member="Marius"]

If they wrote a two or three paragraph post to read, I felt it'd be a horrible insult for me to not at least come close to that. In time, I learned I didn't have write fifteen paragraphs if they did. I just needed to craft a quality read. But still, I feel it's a good rule of thumb to try to put as much into the scene as you took away from it.

I like the whole idea of respect that you aim to bring forth. Personally, I do the same. I feel it would be an insult if my post does not answer, at least minimally, to the criteria the other writer has put on the table. But this bring me forth to my earlier suggestion of 'reprimanding'. If someone does not possess the same feeling of respect that both you and I have, how is he going to be spurred to improve?

Write what you know. Make your character have experiences like you have had.

I understand what you're trying to suggest but I have noticed that many people when they roleplay seem to roleplay as his character is simply a 'sillhoute'. By that I mean, they do not at all go by what their character's personality and traits that they have hopefully included in their character sheet. I hope what I am trying to say makes sense.

--

On the topic of 'reprimanding', I understand it is close to impossible for RPJs to monitor every single post that is being posted. The site's massive, I know. So this should make it more of an issue that the community as a whole has to address. Going by that, I personally believe it would be massively helpful if we all attempt to engage with other writers on the topic of writing, not for the purpose of acting superior but for the purpose of learning from each other.

 

[Rusty]

There's one thing that one has to always keep in mind on Chaos and sites like it: English is not the first language for many folks on here.

It can be frustrating to write something gloriously epic only to get a few sentences in reply, sentences that require a team of cryptographers to decipher. But there's not a whole lot you can do about it. We've got a bastard of a language to learn, and most folks do the best they can with it. Some will improve over time, others will not. Chastising them serves no purpose other than to make one feel a little better about themselves.

As for the native English speakers that can't write well, there's usually some reason behind that as well. Learning disabilities, inexperience, lack of formal education, the list goes on. I'll grant that there are folks who simply don't care enough to be bothered, but again, not a whole lot that can be done about it.

Trying to impose a standard for quality, whether it be on word count or readability, isn't something that's practical in a community like this. Don't get me wrong, I'd love if everyone met my standards for posting, but I learned a long time ago that there's no real practical way to make it happen.

 

[Grrwunhoooll Agaburry]

Lol cant complain about poor posts. Everyone needs to start somewhere.

 

[Darth Ferus]

Make a mentor program. Where experienced writers can help the inexperienced. One of my other sites did that, and it was a rousing success.

But no. I don't think anyone should be held to writing bigger or better posts, cause of the reasons above. Writing disabilities, primary languages, inexperience, etc.

 

[Hal Terrano]

It's not how many words there are that matters, it's what you do with them.

Some of the best posts I've read in play-by-post roleplaying have been on the shorter-side, written by people who understand pacing and impact.

On the other hand, some of the worst posts (that I haven't read) have been painfully boasted slogs of 700+ words, like the outcome of robot being told to write a book. Too many unnecessary descriptors and fluff that's been said before. The brackets don't lie, I never finish reading these posts, it's just really boring.

Yes, there are people who tend to just write single sentence posts, but there's usually a reason for that whether they're new, not native English speakers, have learning difficulties or yes, maybe just lazy.

I forgot where I was going with this, I don't really have a summary...uh...write how you want and with who you want but understand that others might not want to because you either give them nothing, or because you're a snobby bore.

 

[James Justice]

Am I great? Kark no.

Your fulla crap like a Christmas turkey on that statement and you know it. Besides that I agree with the rest of what your post says.

I've played with One line posters, paragraph posters. By all means, I haven't been on this site terribly long, but I have been writing an role playing my whole life. Sometimes a few sentances are all it takes, but that is rare. For instance, an exit of no real importance can permit a few sentances. Or the opening of a business deal thread could totally do that. However, on my business threads I am exceedinly grateful that James is a chain smoker, gives me plenty of something to add in for body language.

When I have little to go off of, its a real muse killer. Kinda like acting with a bad actor. When they ain't got it, it takes a strong, powerful actor to pull the scene off. Like Denzel Washington level strong. Then, you not thinking as you watch, "what great acting" your thinking "man Denzel is boss mode."

Anyway, that's all I gotta say, sorry if its crap I am hungry. TO MY SANDWICH NOW!!

 

[Marius]

Trying to impose a standard for quality, whether it be on word count or readability, isn't something that's practical in a community like this.

I fully understand the point you're making. I agree, imposing a standard that if not followed would be punishable is the worst possible solution. It will backlash massively. English is not my native language as well and I am not stating that to contend that it is not an excuse. It totally is. Additionally, other reasons such as the ones Darth Ferus and you mentioned:

Writing disabilities, primary languages, inexperience, etc.

I absolutely comprehend that there are certain reasons that drive down one's writing quality that are beyond fixation or fixing them would be something beyond everyone's reach here.

I believe that you might've understood me wrong. I do not, in any way, attempt to act superior or encourage undermining people due to their writing skills. Quite the opposite. I encourage and suggest that all of us commit to engage people with advices and tips to improve. I believe the end result for the one seeking to improve would only bring pleasure.The key issue are those that do not want to learn. Utilize cooperation and willingness to learn from each other, benefit from each others' experience and skills. This is my suggestion. Hope this makes sense.

It's not how many words there are that matters, it's what you do with them.

Agreed with you, Hal. I think I've went bad with my first post, making it sound as if length is importance when it is the content.

For instance, an exit of no real importance can permit a few sentances. Or the opening of a business deal thread could totally do that.

Yes, indeed it is very situational. The issue I address is concerning general posts, the ones that are not an exit of no real importance or something along those lines.


As I said earlier, my suggestion would be to actively engage via PMs or however you like it with other writers to give advice, tips, guidance. And I am going to repeat - not in the way to show superiority but to genuinely help.

Make a mentor program.

Concerning that. I've seen some mentor programs that have indeed been quite successful but most have failed due to lack of interest. So how do you stimulate that interest to learn?

 

[James Justice]

[member="Marius"]

Well I write a blog on writing tips. I think that's petty substabtial. Everything from "How to be a good Playboy" to 'How to write the Feel" or How to write details. I think that enables those who want to get better to have resources to do so. But that's just me. Its on site look up "Rambles of a rambling guy who rambles."

Otherwise, as a dyslexic, I personally don't do that. Most days I am pretty good as far as it goes. Others I am so suck ass I can't even spell my own name. So, knowing my own weakness allows me to empathize with others who very well could be facing similar issues. I generally try to refrain from telling people what to do--they don't like it, generally speaking. Tempers, statements like "well your not one to judge," inferiority complexes, personal insults, and lists of reasons as to why they are right and I am wrong tend to crop up in armfulls when this happens, no matter how gracious I be.

So I wish them well and let them on their merry way because, for them that is their style and it very well could be the perfect style to role play with someone else just like them, but its not for me. Different strokes for different folks as my old man used to say.

 

[Jack Sparrow]

A lot of replying has to do with how much is given for someone to reply to. I can write 2,000 words, but if it's all about me and my situation and I give you nothing to react to, or nothing that moves our storyline forward, you're going to be far less motivated to reply. I always try to include a reaction, a question, and something that helps move the story along, even if only a bit. Yes, there are times when I've made a brief reply with nothing substantial just to show that I've acknowledged someone else's post, or because in RL I just don't have the time to craft something substantial, but even then at a minimum I try to put something down that encourages a reply.

 

[Lucrezia]

A lot of replying has to do with how much is given for someone to reply to. I can write 2,000 words, but if it's all about me and my situation and I give you nothing to react to, or nothing that moves our storyline forward, you're going to be far less motivated to reply. I always try to include a reaction, a question, and something that helps move the story along, even if only a bit. Yes, there are times when I've made a brief reply with nothing substantial just to show that I've acknowledged someone else's post, or because in RL I just don't have the time to craft something substantial, but even then at a minimum I try to put something down that encourages a reply.

This sums up a lot, I have seen large multi paragraph posts about the poster that adds maybe a sentence to react to and the rest is major fluff or in the case of one thinking about the thing they were eating and drinking. Then they repeated the post several times while we barely crawled forward in the story of the thread. Killed all wanting to make larger posts when I could get the same effect with little fluff from just a paragraph.

 

[Jamie Pyne]

[member="Marius"]

I check people's prior RP threads before I agree to post with them. Maybe that's snobby of me, but I don't want to do 90% of the work driving a thread when the other person writes 1 sentence every post. Not my cup of tea.

It doesn't bother others, but it's my biggest pet peeve here. Can't help myself.

 

[Tyberius Fel]

We 'ought to enforce a strict quality and length standard on the pain of summary execution!

On a more serious note, I tend to match paragraph lengths with my partner, though it's always good to encourage your comrades to push themselves writing wise.

 

[Darth Ferus]

[member="Marius"]

Sometimes its just a matter of people being interested in teaching. When you're sitting in a classroom and the teacher is giving the most boring lecture, you don't tend to pay attention. But if the teacher is exciting, entertaining, helpful beyond just telling you the black and white, you'll want to learn.

Set up a mentor program with people who want to teach, and those who want to learn will come. When it shows that its working, more people will get interested, and so on.

And I wasn't meaning to say you were being elitist. You're not, and I get the point of the thread. Just wanted to make it clear that I don't personally care what standard people post.

 

[Rusty]

Concerning that. I've seen some mentor programs that have indeed been quite successful but most have failed due to lack of interest. So how do you stimulate that interest to learn?

That's something I've run up against. On my old site, our dueling scene was quite competitive. If you wanted to make waves, you had to know how to fight, and since Force usage was far more conservative, that meant actually knowing how to write a fight. It was only natural for newcomers to want to pick it up, and since the old timers knew things would go a lot more smoothly if everyone knew what they were doing, most were happy to help.

Migrating to Chaos led to some serious culture shock. Despite the plethora of invasions and skirmishes between the major factions, dueling never really took off in the same way it did on JvS. With the use of the Force much less restricted, the technical aspect was never really honed. Why worry about how to properly construct a post when you can call in an army of zombies with necromancy or some ish like that? I quickly came to the conclusion that a duelist on the low end of mediocre on JvS would be a nigh unstoppable force here, if only because they know how to write in a duel without resorting to pulling Force InstaKill out of their ass or whining about how they've been wronged to their FAs.

So I figured what the hell, might as well, and tried to help make things better. Got a couple of ongoing blog series about how to duel and use weapons, and everyone thought that was great. Tried to kick off a dueling academy, which generated tons of interest until folks realized it would involve actual work.

If you want to figure out how to get people to learn and improve, you're gonna have to figure out how to make it worth their while. I would love to see some sort of concerted effort to help people improve their posting. It's just not practical to penalize people for their shortcomings, but until you find a way to incentivize improvement, the status quo will remain.