The Crashing Loony
Since when is this an almost instant denial of your factory sub? I ask cause it's absolutely foolish in my eyes to deny anything cause you argued with the staff.
Star Wars Roleplay: Chaos
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Question about arguing with Staff
- Thread starter Edward Vyperion
- Start date
In Umbris Potestas Est
Question denied due to arguing with the staff. >_>
Ashin Varanin
Professional Enabler
[member="Lord Tristan"] - That's been policy for about as long as the Factory has existed. Clarifying a couple points, sure, that's fine, but when you get into actual argument, it's time to take that step back, for you and your submission. There's an appeals process, the Second Chance process, guaranteeing you a new set of eyes if you feel a judge is asking for unreasonable edits leading to a denial for refusal to make required edits.
Noah Corek
Cocked, Locked and a Smoking Barrel
[member="Lord Tristan"]
If you can make a legit argument as to why something shouldn't be changed or tweaked,then it won't be denied,but if you make up some bullpoodoo,expect it to be either denied,or to get a slap on the wrist,a warning or a warning point.
If you can make a legit argument as to why something shouldn't be changed or tweaked,then it won't be denied,but if you make up some bullpoodoo,expect it to be either denied,or to get a slap on the wrist,a warning or a warning point.
The Crashing Loony
Can't you just stop the argument without causing more anger?Rasho the Hutt said:
Emberlene's Daughter, The Jedi Generalist
The staff are our friends and here to help us if they denied something it was for fair purposes and not because you argued with them.
#Annarules
[takes thirty pieces of silver]
#Annarules
[takes thirty pieces of silver]
Alexandra Feanor
The Lady in Silver/Grey Historian
Its not a question of Arguing with staff, but rather doing so in a hostile fashion, or atleast a perceived hostile fashion. If a Staffer took something as being hostile it could be seen as just being a small problem not worth the original hostility and sometimes denying it saves a headache and helps with others who are being patient. Now sometimes though they, like everyone else, take things wrongly due to the lack of being able to clearly tell if something is hostile, in that case you PM them, explain it, and get the ball rolling again. Atleast thats my observations, sue me if im wrong.
Lord of Girth
What may help you, is to PM the judge, and ask him/her why the edits need to be made. I do that and ask if they could help me understand where I could have been wrong and trust me, I get feed back because I come to them with an easy attitude and ask questions, rather than argue with them. Be civil about it and it will go over more smoothly. 
if you need a break and a breather, take one so you don't blow up and mess up your time here. trust me it works.
Cheers.
if you need a break and a breather, take one so you don't blow up and mess up your time here. trust me it works. Cheers.
The Crashing Loony
Hmm... alright, I'll remember that
Fabula Caromed
Belle of the Brawl
Bonus points if you try to badmouth Factory Judges in a Factory thread. That will not only get it denied, it will also get you slapped with a warning point and repeated infractions will get you banned from the Factory.
The Factory Judges and every staff member who works the Factory are not here to ruin your submission for their own enjoyment. They are not here to tear down what you have created because it makes them giggle to watch you cry. If you discuss changes with them, they will often explain why, and sometimes are open to a difference in opinion. However, every change requested (required) is to circumvent potential power issues, logical inconsistencies, and other things that will not work in the RP environment.
If you argue about that, not only is your stuff getting denied, but you might want to take a step back and think about what your intent was in designing the submission in the first place. If you were actively trying to get an advantage over others by making something that is cleverly overpowered, that says something.
As always, you're allowed to second chance anything that gets denied. And if you get into an argument the second time, and it gets denied, then it stays denied. Just like every other second chance denial.
The Factory Judges and every staff member who works the Factory are not here to ruin your submission for their own enjoyment. They are not here to tear down what you have created because it makes them giggle to watch you cry. If you discuss changes with them, they will often explain why, and sometimes are open to a difference in opinion. However, every change requested (required) is to circumvent potential power issues, logical inconsistencies, and other things that will not work in the RP environment.
If you argue about that, not only is your stuff getting denied, but you might want to take a step back and think about what your intent was in designing the submission in the first place. If you were actively trying to get an advantage over others by making something that is cleverly overpowered, that says something.
As always, you're allowed to second chance anything that gets denied. And if you get into an argument the second time, and it gets denied, then it stays denied. Just like every other second chance denial.
Ayden Cater
Grumpy Goat
The people in factory were selected because of their comprehensive knowledge for their given area of the Factory. Starship judges are expected to know the ins and outs of how a starship works. Same for tech judges, planet judges, etc. Another aspect to consider is that Factory Judge are around to specifically execute the rules of the site, as handed down by the Roleplay Judges and Admins. Very rarely are submissions outright denied, especially nowdays. Our aim is not to say "no" because it gives us please. Our aim is to be able to say "yes". The Factory exists to help give people the tools they need to make a good story without any oversight.
Let's face it, without the Factory Judges and Roleplay Judges overseeing the things that go into the factory, people would submit 20km battleships with legions of troopers with armor impervious to lightsabers and the Force. When we ask for changes, it's not because we enjoy it. Every change we ask for just lengthens the time we spend working on the sub instead of doing something else we might rather be doing, like actually roleplay. When we ask for a change, it's because we see a potential issue with the sub that could readily cause grief with others. Very rarely do things get denied without a conversation happening between multiple judges and RPJs. This is to make sure that things are being denied for the right reasons.
As it has been said before, you can disagree with a Factory Judge. If you're worried you'll come across as rude or argumentative, feel free to PM them about it. Explain what it is you're goal of the sub is, what you want to use it for, and ask them how to make it work. I cannot tell you how many times I've seen subs taken through the ringer and drama-filled words spattered across the forum because someone had a question about something and just assumed it would work out for their benefit.
Arguing is just never a good idea. It hurts more than it helps. When in doubt, PM.
Let's face it, without the Factory Judges and Roleplay Judges overseeing the things that go into the factory, people would submit 20km battleships with legions of troopers with armor impervious to lightsabers and the Force. When we ask for changes, it's not because we enjoy it. Every change we ask for just lengthens the time we spend working on the sub instead of doing something else we might rather be doing, like actually roleplay. When we ask for a change, it's because we see a potential issue with the sub that could readily cause grief with others. Very rarely do things get denied without a conversation happening between multiple judges and RPJs. This is to make sure that things are being denied for the right reasons.
As it has been said before, you can disagree with a Factory Judge. If you're worried you'll come across as rude or argumentative, feel free to PM them about it. Explain what it is you're goal of the sub is, what you want to use it for, and ask them how to make it work. I cannot tell you how many times I've seen subs taken through the ringer and drama-filled words spattered across the forum because someone had a question about something and just assumed it would work out for their benefit.
Arguing is just never a good idea. It hurts more than it helps. When in doubt, PM.
The Crashing Loony
Okay, and while it's on my mind, since the point was said many times and I made this thread, I wanna make a sword for a much later usage while it's on my mind, which would be right now, would that be allowed, or would I need to be able to use it immediately when it's approved?
Ashin Varanin
Professional Enabler
[member="Lord Tristan"] - Explain your case in the submission and you should be fine.
The Crashing Loony
Alright, thank you
Nyxie
【夢狐】
If you absolutely have to satiate the need to argue - and don't get me wrong, arguing by definition isn't fighting, they're just closely associated, then you should do it either via Skype or by PMing the judge, remaining civil, and making fully clear what it is you think shouldn't be a certain way and a fair case as to why it shouldn't be. In no way should any debating occur in a submission. You can ask questions, and ask if something can remain unedited for X and Y reason, but not complying is a death wish. Ask Fabula, you can take it from me when I say that I speak from experience and I wouldn't lie to ya. I think everyone sees a site's staff as bad guys immediately because they're the staff; no, they're just volunteer workers, working to make things a better place for the membership as a whole. Before they were "judges," they were just you and me. There could be no factory at all, right? Some of them may seem/be firm, but they're just getting the job done.Lord Tristan said:
As a matter of fact, if you feel something even might get denied or asked to be changed, it's a good idea to discuss it with them prior to submitting it. They don't bite, trust me.
Oh yeah, and sass. Sass will be the bane of your existence....
#SuperSniped
Ashin Varanin
Professional Enabler
That can work, but the better path would be to propose a third way, either a compromise or a reworking that comes at the element from a new angle.Ashe the Reaper said:
The Crashing Loony
Hang on, can a NPC make a weapon even with a Dev thread?Rasho the Hutt said:
Captain Larraq
Capitalist
As one of the problem childs of the factory, let me give you a very solid piece of advice. If you're trying to meet in the middle and negotiate a way to satisfy both the judge and yourself, your best bet is to go out of your way to be very, very polite about it. Especially if it's very early in the morning or you've had a few drinks. @_@ I can think of more than one occasion when I've tried to negotiate and I felt that I was being fair and reasonable and un-offensive and then been warned to stop arguing..... So if you want to tell the judge "Um... that idea sucks. Can we try to come up with another one please?" Make sure to offer sacrificial cookies and milk, use lots and lots of polite language, and before you ever open your mouth or hit the 'post' button... fucking delete it and try again. >_>
Ashin Varanin
Professional Enabler
This is fundamentally sound.Captain Larraq said:
As in, the manufacturer is an NPC corporation or individual? Sure.Lord Tristan said:
The Crashing Loony
Alright then, thanks [member="Rasho the Hutt"]