Review companies: Current Tier Up Rules

Cira · Jan 23, 2016

So, after that poll that I set up and a few conversations with others, I want for us to come together and review companies.

http://starwarsrp.net/topic/4011-company-rules-canon-companies-template/

This is what I would like to do:

1. A quality review of our current Tier up program. Should we stream line it? Should we change it? Revamp it?

Howdy, you magnificent capitalists.

There’s never quite been a comprehensive system in place for growing your company in tier. Frankly, precious few non-canon companies have progressed past Tier III, much less achieve Tier V. I intend to keep it that way. This guide isn’t intended to make your progression from Tier to Tier easier. Not in the slightest. This guide’s purpose is to make it so that you know exactly how to get your company graduate from one Tier to the next.

There are four types of threads I’m looking for. You should link to them when asking for a Tier upgrade.

Note that each linked thread can only be used to fulfill one of the sub-requirements for each tier level. ( IE: No double-dipping the same thread to fulfill a major project and a contract.)

NOTICE: Marketplace transactions do not count towards tier advancements.

Threads wherein your products are sold in bulk to minor factions, major factions, or NPC organizations.*
Threads wherein your company is a central element.
Threads wherein your company expands, here meaning actual, tangible growth and not the creation of a subsidy.
Threads wherein products are developed.

*These will count less than minor or major factions, obviously. These threads also need to be absolutely wonderful to read, or I will find you, and I will kill you.

Players are in charge of informing a moderator if a company no longer maintains the requirements of a given tier. Failure to do so could result in additional forced tier demotion and subsequent electroshock therapy. If you have any questions, post them here, and I or someone else will respond in a timely manner. Well, I won't be able to today. I'm going camping. But tomorrow, for sure.

NOTICE: You may not advance more than one Tier in a single request. Threads already used for advancement from one tier to the next or made during a previous tier will not count towards a new tier advancement.

Tier I to Tier II

Sign a contract with at least one faction or organization.
Make at least three minor-production products.
Complete two miscellaneous threads.

Tier II to Tier III

Sign a contract with two more factions or organizations.
Make an additional three mass-production products.
Complete three miscellaneous threads.

Tier III to Tier IV

Sign a contract with three more player-run organizations, one of which must be a major faction OR a Tier V+ company.
Make an additional three mass-produced products..
Complete four miscellaneous threads.
Successfully complete a project of sizable proportions.

Tier IV to Tier V

Sign a contract with two more major factions OR Tier V+ companies.
Make an additional three mass-produced products.
Complete five miscellaneous threads.
Successfully complete a project of sizable proportions.
Obtain the sponsorship of a major faction.
Sponsorship is essentially when a sufficiently large major faction decides to back your company's endeavors specifically. This can either be by them giving you a large, direct annual subsidy, signing a long-term contract, and other things that would tie the government of that faction and your company close together.

Tier V to Tier VI

Sign a contract with two more major factions OR Tier V+ companies.
Make an additional four mass-produced products.
Complete six miscellaneous threads.
Successfully complete a project of immense proportions.
Obtain the permanent sponsorship of another major faction.

NOTICE: If your company is a service company and not a production company, we'll talk about it, don't worry. Such companies, as they are relatively few, will be decided on a case by case basis.

I know this is a lot of information, but I figured it would be nice to open this up for discussion.

Tier 6 Companies

Tier 5 Companies

[SIZE=11.3333px] [/SIZE]Tier 4 Companies

Rusty · Jan 23, 2016

The tier up requirements could do with a little streamlining. The biggest problem for a company like mine is that it's not always within the business model to do things like contracts. I've managed to finagle a couple of deals with minor factions, but on the whole, that's not necessarily in line with my business model. I'd wager RCFC turns steadier business than many a Tier 3 or 4 company. Maybe instead of contracts, we should look at volume of business? Just a suggestion, and a somewhat selfish one at that.

My main issue with canon companies is that they more or less hold the keys to the kingdom when it comes to the iconic Star Wars tech. I recon Draco will rant about them at length, so I won't steal his thunder there. While I would argue that 800 years is a long time for a company to stay solvent, I'm not prepared to argue that we should take that away from folks. I would like to see enforced neutrality. If some kid wants an X-wing, by God, he gets an X-wing. Same with anything else canon.

For yanking tiers from folks, I'd like to see that. Have a minimum monthly requirement for activity, and if they fail to meet it three months in a row, they get yoinked.

Cira · Jan 23, 2016

Rusty said:
Maybe instead of contracts, we should look at volume of business? Just a suggestion, and a somewhat selfish one at that.

Could you elaborate more on this?

As of right now up to Tier 3, you can do contracts with an NPC company. Tier 4 and beyond requires contracts with MF OR Tier 5 and up companies.

Rusty said:
Have a minimum monthly requirement for activity, and if they fail to meet it three months in a row, they get yoinked.

There are over 497 companies, doing check ins or checking for activity would be a tremendous amount of work for those taking care of this. While an interesting option, I don't think it is viable.

Rusty · Jan 23, 2016

Cira said:
Could you elaborate more on this?

As of right now up to Tier 3, you can do contracts with an NPC company. Tier 4 and beyond requires contracts with MF OR Tier 5 and up companies.

Didn't realize the NPC thing. Would make life a lot easier. At any rate, it's just a rough idea, but maybe X number of IC transactions must be met since the last tier up to qualify in lieu of contracts? I'm kinda high on cold medicine right now, so apologies if I'm not all that coherent.

Cira said:
There are over 400 companies, doing check ins or checking for activity would be a tremendous amount of work for those taking care of this. While an interesting option, I don't think it is viable.

Absolutely right. Doing checkins for that many companies is not viable. However, checking the Marketplace to see which ones haven't had activity in the last six months is. The first two pages are your more or less regularly active companies. Pages three and four and might show some signs of life if poked, and from the bottom of page 4 on back is mainly DOA. There's no way to do this without a tremendous amount of work on the front end (I'll help) but the end result should be much like pruning. It might suck at first, but it gets a lot easier the second time, and the whole thing should be healthier for it.

As for folks like Alric who don't have their businesses listed in the Marketplace? I got nothing. Chances are they're either too exclusive to care or too lazy to do the legwork. Irrelevant to the overall scheme eitherway.

Cira · Jan 23, 2016

Rusty said:
owever, checking the Marketplace to see which ones haven't had activity in the last six months is. The first two pages are your more or less regularly active companies.

The problem is, the Marketplace isn't mandatory. It is just for ease of convenience. Also, the Marketplace is more geared for people who sell products -- not service like PMC's, trade companies, entertainment, restaurants, hospitality... None of these have a "marketplace". They instead roleplay on the forum.

It isn't about being exclusive or lazy. It just doesn't fit the type of company they use. Take Justice Shipping for example. He does alot of forum RP, but doesn't show much action in the Marketplace.

Rusty said:
Didn't realize the NPC thing. Would make life a lot easier. At any rate, it's just a rough idea, but maybe X number of IC transactions must be met since the last tier up to qualify in lieu of contracts? I'm kinda high on cold medicine right now, so apologies if I'm not all that coherent.

Yes. From tier 1 to 3, all it says is do a contract with an "organization" that organization may be an NPC company, government, etc.

As for IC interactions? Wouldn't that flow into the "misc dev thread requirement" already?

Not many people RP alot, so placing a firm "This amount of interactions" is good. Contracts are meant to show a "long term" influx of money coming in for your products.

And wouldn't IC interactions effectively be... a contract? Because i assume that interaction is to sell your product?

Rusty · Jan 23, 2016

Cira said:
The problem is, the Marketplace isn't mandatory. It is just for ease of convenience. Also, the Marketplace is more geared for people who sell products -- not service like PMC's, trade companies, entertainment, restaurants, hospitality... None of these have a "marketplace". They instead roleplay on the forum.

Fair enough. Was just a thought, and not necessarily a good one. However, if we can get ideas rolling, that's a win by my standards.

As for the next bit, there's no way in hell I'll get the formatting right trying to quote it, so I'm not even gonna try.

It's not quite that simple. I've got an IC shopfront, and I've got a Marketplace shopfront. The vast majority of my orders require no dev whatsoever. In fact, they really don't require much work at all. I'll get two, maybe three posts out of it, and one of those will be the submission itself. When someone wants a custom gun, it's not really a contract, at least not in the terms of going up a tier. It's not a source of steady income, but a one time transaction. If I'm wrong on that, RCFC is a couple of major projects and a few weeks away from going up a couple of tiers.

Ellie Mors · Jan 23, 2016

I have views

will respond after work

Ellie Mors · Jan 24, 2016

Companies Tier IV and above (or Tier V and above, though I feel this wouldn't really effect many if it is only tier V+) are at risk for dropping back by one tier following a two-week notice via RPJ (or FJ if we give us that ability, but I'm the only FJ who regularly deals with companies, soooo.....).
Public threads which result in loss of stock, major property (talking space stations/shipyards and major facilities or HQ) destruction (not damage), or loss of major contracts (with Major Factions or tier V+ companies) may warrant this notice.
Inactivity without an LOA for over three (3) weeks with the company is grounds for such a notice.
The two week period is a grace period to attempt to regain lost profits, equipment, land, etc, and return activity to the company. Following the two weeks the company is re-evaluated, with any new or current threads looked over, before a decision is made.
A company may not drop lower than tier III (three).
3. The possibility of companies losing tier levels and how this may be done?

I'm going to break this down by tier promotion requirements, where I feel it is a bit more strenuous in work and where it is too lax.

NOTICE: You may not advance more than one Tier in a single request. Threads already used for advancement from one tier to the next or made during a previous tier will not count towards a new tier advancement.

Tier I to Tier II

Sign a contract with at least one faction or organization.

Make at least three minor-production products.

Complete two miscellaneous threads.

Tier II to Tier III

Sign a contract with two more factions or organizations.

Make an additional three mass-production products.

Complete three miscellaneous threads.

Tier III to Tier IV

Sign a contract with three more player-run organizations, one of which must be a major faction OR a Tier V+ company.

Make an additional three mass-produced products..

Complete four miscellaneous threads.

Successfully complete a project of sizable proportions.

Tier IV to Tier V

Sign a contract with two more major factions OR Tier V+ companies.

Make an additional three mass-produced products.

Complete five miscellaneous threads.

Successfully complete a project of sizable proportions.

Obtain the sponsorship of a major faction.
Sponsorship is essentially when a sufficiently large major faction decides to back your company's endeavors specifically. This can either be by them giving you a large, direct annual subsidy, signing a long-term contract, and other things that would tie the government of that faction and your company close together.

Tier V to Tier VI

Sign a contract with two more major factions OR Tier V+ companies.

Make an additional four mass-produced products.

Complete six miscellaneous threads.

Successfully complete a project of immense proportions.

Obtain the permanent sponsorship of another major faction.

NOTICE: If your company is a service company and not a production company, we'll talk about it, don't worry. Such companies, as they are relatively few, will be decided on a case by case basis.

This (below) is perfectly fine.

Tier I to Tier II

Sign a contract with at least one faction or organization.

Make at least three minor-production products.

Complete two miscellaneous threads.

Now, this, too, is fine in a vacuum, but right now I'm seeing a trend with contracts, and I'm going to put up a tally at the end. So far we are at three contracts from tier 1 to 2 to 3. (As in, two promotions)

Tier II to Tier III

Sign a contract with two more factions or organizations.

Make an additional three mass-production products.

Complete three miscellaneous threads.

Alrighty, and now from 3 to 4 we have another three contracts, this time they have to be PC ran and one needs to be a Tier V+ or Major Faction. That puts us at 6 contracts thus far, or really 5 and 1 major.

Tier III to Tier IV

Sign a contract with three more player-run organizations, one of which must be a major faction OR a Tier V+ company.

Make an additional three mass-produced products..

Complete four miscellaneous threads.

Successfully complete a project of sizable proportions.

What is a project of sizable proportions? I have a vague idea of one might be, but the page itself doesn't give any implication beyond just the requirement. I'm aware that Tyrin wrote this, but new people join the factory and the company "game" all the time that might not know what one is. A brief summary, preferably near the requirement itself, should work well here.

Three mass produced products? Didn't we do that from tier 2 to 3? I am aware that mass production is no small feat in the business sense, but making three mass produced submissions is probably the easiest task out of all of these, with the least amount of time required. Maybe bump this up to four? But that's just my personal opinion here, as I feel it isn't comparable to the other requirements.
So now we have another two contracts, which puts us at 8, along with a sponsorship (which could technically be obtained with the same major faction you may have signed a contract with) that could be more-or-less considered another contract, so let's call it a total of 9 contracts from tiers 1 to 5, four of which need to be with a tier V+ company or major faction(counting the sponsorship).

Tier IV to Tier V

Sign a contract with two more major factions OR Tier V+ companies.

Make an additional three mass-produced products.

Complete five miscellaneous threads.

Successfully complete a project of sizable proportions.

Obtain the sponsorship of a major faction.
Sponsorship is essentially when a sufficiently large major faction decides to back your company's endeavors specifically. This can either be by them giving you a large, direct annual subsidy, signing a long-term contract, and other things that would tie the government of that faction and your company close together.

I'm aware contracts are a big thing to do in the corporate sphere, but we have to remember there are a limited amount of companies (tier V+) and major factions to draw from. Are nine contracts, thus far, really necessary, or at least from tiers 1 to tier 3? (As in tier 1 -> 2 -> 3) We already have a huge emphasis on miscellaneous threads, which really take up the most time, as we are at a total of 14 miscellaneous threads.

Maybe we can move some of the contract thread requirements that are present in tier 2 and 3 to tiers IV and V, or maybe just lighten the load early on? This is entirely my opinion, however, from the perspective of someone perpetually doing work away from the forum, so I am in the minority here.

Cira said:
2 I want to discuss canon companies. Should we do away with them? Are they working well with how they are working now? What could be done -better-?'

If there is a problem, that should be discussed before discussing if we should remove them (the companies) first. Personally, they appear to be working quite fine. There aren't a ton of people using them, and it certainly isn't the major focus in any kind of RP, and besides being limited like canon items, they are basically identical to normal companies with more restrictions.

Ellie Mors · Jan 24, 2016

Note: I posted via auto-saved content above, so it may have weird formatting or missing text. Let me know if something above doesn't make sense or was without context.

Cira · Jan 24, 2016

Bianca said:
I'm aware contracts are a big thing to do in the corporate sphere, but we have to remember there are a limited amount of companies (tier V+) and major factions to draw from. Are nine contracts, thus far, really necessary, or at least from tiers 1 to tier 3? (As in tier 1 -> 2 -> 3)

Well from tier 1 to 3, these contracts can be done with NPC organizations. It doesn't have to be a PC. Would clearing that up help?

I know there were a few who didn't know that.

Bianca said:
(which could technically be obtained with the same major faction you may have signed a contract with)

One cannot double dip threads.

Do you have an idea on what else could be done to show in an rp format actual growth?

I realized discussion tier reductions in light of streamlining may clog this thread. So i will post up a new one for it.

Gir Quee · Jan 24, 2016

I think I need to give the current Tier system more thought before I comment on it, but...

2 I want to discuss canon companies. Should we do away with them? Are they working well with how they are working now? What could be done -better-?'

Apparently I'm going to echo Rusty and Mark in saying that the biggest issue that people seem to have with current use of canon companies is people using canon companies to have a stranglehold on certain canon products or trademarks.

One of the options we might want to consider is allowing canon company names to be used, but to explicitly have them been reorganized to not be the exact same company as in canon to prevent the stranglehold on products or trademarks. As an example, Seinar Fleet Systems could still produce canon Tie Fighters or their own new derivatives of that design, but it would still allow factions like the First Order, Imperium, etc the freedom to use the TIE name and older designs to help build their RP world in a vein to the traditional Galactic Empire.

3. The possibility of companies losing tier levels and how this may be done?

As a question to people who have been thinking about this earlier, would their be a set way to lower company Tiers? Like only a Tier at a time? Or could a company drop multiple levels at once from an especially damaging event?

Cira · Jan 24, 2016

Gir Quee said:
As a question to people who have been thinking about this earlier, would their be a set way to lower company Tiers? Like only a Tier at a time? Or could a company drop multiple levels at once from an especially damaging event?

http://starwarsrp.net/topic/77486-tier-reduction-discussion/

My proposal here is that a company may only drop a single tier level at at time.

Netherworld · Jan 24, 2016

I don't do a lot of company stuff, so dunno how much input I can have here, but my two cents echoes some of what [member="Rusty"] and [member="Gir Quee"] said already.

The only issue I've seen or heard of regarding canon companies is that they 'claim' certain canon tech as their own, which can prove especially unpleasant for newbie members who jump into RP only to have an angry canon company owner PM them about [insert canon tech here] that they are using without permission. Honestly, given the fact that canon company owners don't 'work' for their subs like SW company owners do, I think they don't really get to stake a hold on staple tech from the SW universe.

As for the tier up rules... ( [member="Cira"] [member="Bianca"] )

Bianca said:
(which could technically be obtained with the same major faction you may have signed a contract with)

I think she meant that you can do it with the same MF, not in the same thread.
Like, it follows logically that you do a couple of contracts with a group of people, do good work, and they offer you sponsorship later on.

The rest of the stuff, as I said, haven't really done that, so I've no real feel for how much work there is involved. But going by the stats that Cira posted up somewhere, we don't have that many people who are that interested in tiering up. The few that do and motivated enough to do the work, apparently? My two cents, anyway.

Cira · Jan 24, 2016

To be added to the Tier Up guide. Posting this for posterity.

Alric Kuhn said:
[member="Cira"] [member="Spencer Varanin"]

Hi there. I am currently in the midst of doing my corporations major project in order to Tier up to Tier 6. During this process I noted two things required to grow a company that I have always wondered about.

I realize the normal importance of this, companies require funds and contracts in order to substantiate growth and show expansion, however I find it a bit silly that this growth needs to come from governments, especially considering that a corporation may not at all agree with the proceedings of those governments. For instance a company may wholly support only one faction and only that faction due to IC reasons, this would prevent them from further expanding because according to the rules they require at least two to reach Tier Six. Obviously this is a rather Niche reason, but in general I believe that Companies should not need the support of a government in order to grow.

So my question is this. If additional development is supplemented into these threads, could these requirements be bypassed fairly? Say instead of a 10 post thread securing government sponsorship a corporation does 100 posts worth of Dev Threads expanding business in a different way.

Thank you for your time and eventual answer

Spencer Varanin said:
[member="Alric Kuhn"]

Yes because I do understand that there are several companies that do not function under governments/support them. By doing that you are allowed to by pass it.

Cira · Jan 24, 2016

Netherworld said:
'claim' certain canon tech as their own

So having canon technology claimed by canon companies is the biggest concern and headache so far correct?

Ellie Mors · Jan 25, 2016

Cira said:
So having canon technology claimed by canon companies is the biggest concern and headache so far correct?

I think the biggest disconnect here is that the act of requesting development in situations like a new X-Wing, to obtain blueprints or something, is viewed as being protection of that company interests rather than a simple fetch-quest. Maybe we could clarify that in some way?

Cira · Jan 25, 2016

Bianca said:
I think the biggest disconnect here is that the act of requesting development in situations like a new X-Wing, to obtain blueprints or something, is viewed as being protection of that company interests rather than a simple fetch-quest. Maybe we could clarify that in some way?

Do you have any ideas on how we can clarify this??

Ellie Mors · Jan 25, 2016

[member="Cira"]
Well, first, we can make sure the factory team (Judges, RPJs) are aware that this is the case, as the discussion on skype the other day (and the posts here) show that not everyone is on the same page with that. Following that, we can make sure we address this is the case whenever we ask for development in these situations, and maybe summarize this can be the case in our Standardized Development thread thing.

Cira · Jan 26, 2016

REDO OF COMPANY TIER UP GUIDELINES SUGGESTION

@Netherworld @Gir Quee [member="Rusty"] [member="Spencer Varanin"] [member="Bianca"] [member="Raziel"] [member="Ordo"] [member="Darth Vulkan"]

Items in green are suggested edits for clarity and expansion of choices.

Tier I to Tier II

Sign a contract with at least one faction or organization (May be NPC).
Make at least three minor-production products.
Complete two miscellaneous threads.

Tier II to Tier III

Sign a contract with two more factions or organizations. (May be NPC).
Make an additional three mass-production products.
Complete three miscellaneous threads.

Tier III to Tier IV

Sign a contract with three player-run organizations, one of which must be a major faction OR a Tier V+ company.
Make an additional four mass-produced products..
Complete four miscellaneous threads.
Successfully complete a project of sizable proportions.

Tier IV to Tier V

Sign a contract with two more major factions OR Tier V+ companies.
Make an additional three mass-produced products.
Complete five miscellaneous threads.
Successfully complete a project of major proportions.
Obtain the sponsorship of a major faction or a 100 post dev thread expanding business in another way.
Sponsorship is essentially when a sufficiently large major faction decides to back your company's endeavors specifically. This can either be by them giving you a large, direct annual subsidy, signing a long-term contract, and other things that would tie the government of that faction and your company close together. Or additional development may be supplemented by conducting a 100 post dev thread expanding business in another way. (May be in several threads or one. Dominions and Invasions do not qualify.)

Tier V to Tier VI

Sign a contract with two more major factions OR Tier V+ companies.
Make an additional four mass-produced products.
Complete six miscellaneous threads.
Successfully complete a project of immense proportions.
Obtain the permanent sponsorship of another major faction or a 100 post dev thread expanding business in another way.

Ellie Mors · Jan 26, 2016

Works for me.

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