Rule Change Request; Company tier advancement

[Jacen Cavill]

The system isn't a full fledged economy because we all have lives/day jobs and if we were to monitor and count every micro-transaction well judging would drive people insane.

 

[Captain Larraq]

The system isn't a full fledged economy because we all have lives/day jobs and if we were to monitor and count every micro-transaction well judging would drive people insane.

The only reason I'm not playing EVE Online is financial struggles and lack of sufficient hardware. Being anal retentive about micro-transactions, research and development, and business strategies are acceptable forms of entertainment for me. Why do you think I have so many Factory Submissions? A position as a Judge is a volunteer position. Just because you wouldn't volunteer to micro-manage a full economy doesn't mean that others wouldn't.

 

[Quietus]

Valid points.

 

[Jorga the Hutt]

(this is Ashin)

A decision for amended tier advancement has been reached and will be implemented tomorrow at some point.

 

[Jacen Cavill]

[member="Captain Larraq"] to your point. Because I do this in real life and I desperately seek to escape it by writing about a Star Wars character.

 

[Judah Dashiell]

I don't find the labeling of some factions as "secondary". I went, made a product/contract with the Sanctum and I don't feel I should be entitled to lesser points simply because the faction is smaller. Its still a major faction within the board rules.

Do I think some changes need to be made? Yes. However, I find your system flawed.

 

[Nyxie]

The Horde is questionable due to their affiliation with 'Death Watch' and the IC dislike of technology.

Random divergence for a sec: Death Watch never launched, and we don't dislike technology; only the Yuuzhan Vong and Myrsha Vong do.

In this thread I read the posts over and over again and I only see two things; lots of trying to compare a game to real life, and lots of acknowledging/justifying the fact that "the select few" factions and their leaders have every right to be a jerk for OOC reasons and hurt another person's experience in comparison to that person's peers over it.

Un. Acceptable. But that's what shuns me from this community. :/

That said, I'm not in favor of Larraq's proposed changes, but the points behind the change are in my humble opinion all completely valid. This isn't rocket science - and doesn't need to be. Just a different track should be all it takes to sway leverage out of the politicking and dicking and potential for abuse and bias; because for whatever reason, whether how Player A writes his subs or what Player B did to/with Leader X or Group Y and Z in the past, it shouldn't be grounds for a premature fixed cap of growth for anyone as it no longer leaves all players' IC opportunities equal regardless of work ethic, and is that really what we promote? For instance, something as simple as an added option against major contracts; doesn't change the original system but is immensely game-changing for those "stuck" individuals.

 

[Captain Larraq]

I don't find the labeling of some factions as "secondary". I went, made a product/contract with the Sanctum and I don't feel I should be entitled to lesser points simply because the faction is smaller. Its still a major faction within the board rules.

Do I think some changes need to be made? Yes. However, I find your system flawed.

I agree that it needs some work and polish, but that's actually one of the issues I have with the existing rules. Not to say that your contract is worth any less than any other, but that some factions and organizations are smaller than others. If the Republic is refurbishing their military and uses ores from your mining company or components from your starship company in 1 out of every 20 ships that they build/refurbish... and the LS was doing the same thing... Your contract with the Republic would net you a significantly higher income. At the same time... Say you reached an agreement with one of the few Tier 6 starship manufacturing companies and managed to nail a contract to provide them with components for a new line of ships they are producing?

Could the Sanctum truly offer you as big of a contract as a Tier 6 company? They are a government that spans three worlds. While that Tier 6 company sells products to multiple factions and organizations over dozens of worlds.


Under the current rules, a contract with the Sanctum is just as valuable as a contract with the Republic and more valuable than a contract with a tier 6 company.

Then again... it also depend on the nature of the contract itself. Nailing the contract to produce the entire LS Navy or provide pistols to every soldier they have, or just securing mining rights to one of their most productive moons is a big deal. But technically... right now I could sell a Limo to Popo (SC of the Republic), agree to replace/repair it if/every time it breaks, and consider it a Contract with a Major Faction. Under the current rules, both contracts have equal value. It doesn't matter who the contract is with, what it is about, or how big the contract is. So long as it's with a Major Faction, it counts right now. (unless a Judge vetoes the specific contract)

 

[Nikolas Faselli]

Wait a bit... You want tier advancement to be changed, which would mean it gets easier. At the moment, getting a major faction contract is good enough, but your description and reasons sound like you want it to be easier.

Honestly, business is a strategy. You can't just advance like a Jedi would from Padawan to Master. You would have to keep an eye on everything, always willing to react when something happens. Tier advancement should be as difficult as possible, getting to the highest tiers even nearly impossible. Why? Because you can't have a ton of galactically known companies which do the same karking things. Things don't work like that. Have you seen a thousand Coca-Colas, for example? There are other colas, but their popularity is nothing when compared to Coca-Cola's popularity. Coca-Cola could be considered as a Tier 6 company and whenever any other company would like to take its place, CC would have to fall.

It's as easy as it could be. Making tier advancements easier is the only thing I see here. While I do understand you would want to change things to make it more capitalistic and everything, you're also giving every company owner the possibility to make a contract which they would have never made. Therefore, tier progression becomes easier.

Tier advancement should be even more difficult... But not that kind of difficult. It would be illogical to give Factory Judges that much work. After all, we are people. And Janus, Jared, and Danger are people, just like everybody else.

 

[Jacen Cavill]

Yes, business isnt easy. Also to everyone who's complaining about factions not liking them OOC, here's a hint.


Fix your OOC and IC problems and coordinate on what they need. It's why I'm about to be Tier VI, I coordinated with the people who's business I sought.

 

[Captain Larraq]

[member="Maria Natalja"]

Don't forget about Pepsi.

Not to mention Gatorade vs Power Aid, Brisk vs Arizona tea, and all the Energy drinks popping up. For the most part, they all do the same thing and compete on the same market.

Granted, I think the group that owns Coke owns them all now... But that's besides the point.

 

[Nyxie]

Ya know what? I had an idea going over something in my head; the reasons why it needs change.
What about the company whose writer isn't a tech guru and whose subs aren't everyone's first pick, but tries hard and puts in plenty of work?
Why should their work be ignored?
What about the company whose writer made a few bad choices and whose company suffers simply because people blacklisted they themselves?
Why should theirs have it harder?
What about the company who is overlooked because Player X likes all the shiny paint and on Submission Y?
Why should the work not count?

The simple fact of the matter is that it is NOT about difficulty; it's not about making it "easier" to advance. It's about making it possible for everyone to advance so long as they put in the work, regardless of the OOC complexities. It's about player equality, to which there currently isn't enough in the system.

And just like that, I that's how I found my simple proposal; have the judges do monthly advancement threads to promote observed hard-working companies who haven't gotten their dues in their opinion. Give the underdog a personal bump up for their perseverance.

 

[Caulder Dune]

And Janus, Jared, and Danger are people, just like everybody else.

I'm actually a Negative Energy Elemental.

 

[Jacen Cavill]

Because not every business advances.

It's why Blue-Ray beat HD-DVD, it's why sega doesn't make consoles and the IPhone is the king of touch screens.


Business isn't like a teeball league, not everyone gets a participation medal.

 

[Nikolas Faselli]

Ya know what? I had an idea going over something in my head; the reasons why it needs change. What about the company whose writer isn't a tech guru and whose subs aren't everyone's first pick, but tries hard and puts in plenty of work? Why should their work be ignored? What about the company whose writer made a few bad choices and whose company suffers simply because people blacklisted they themselves? Why should theirs have it harder?

People don't get hate when they do something wrong a few times. People get hate if they constantly do something wrong, never learning. Humans have to learn from their mistakes, not do them again. If everybody did that, there wouldn't be such people who should be hated.

 

[Nyxie]

People don't get hate when they do something wrong a few times. People get hate if they constantly do something wrong, never learning. Humans have to learn from their mistakes, not do them again. If everybody did that, there wouldn't be such people who should be hated.

Irrelevant to the fact that an OOC condition is being used to inhibit and ignore an IC statistic.

 

[Jacen Cavill]

If no one is buying your IC goods because they are buying a competitors...you won't get profit from that. It works the same way IRL.

 

[Captain Larraq]

>_>


Why has this turned into a "Nobody likes me, why can't I level up?" discussion?

People don't like me OOC? That sucks, too bad. I don't expect people to like me. I'm a dick. Even when I'm being nice and trying to work with people and be polite, I'm still a dick. I'm just a polite dick.

IC, nobody should have beef with Larraq. Not even Darth Vornskr or Ayden. Larraq goes to great lengths to keep his identity in check during a fleeting engagement, so no one outside of the Mandalorians should know of his actions and capabilities. Galaxy wide, he should only be known as that weird Mandalorian that doesn't wear armor and owns a company.


The discussion here is about a tier advancement mechanic that makes sense. Political affiliation and personal bias be damned. This is about there being no logical reason why selling X number of Y to Company A is any different from selling X number of Y to Government B.

 

[Nyxie]

Because not every business advances. It's why Blue-Ray beat HD-DVD, it's why sega doesn't make consoles and the IPhone is the king of touch screens.

iPhone is a piece of crap with shiny coating and Blu-Ray is statistically a faster, more spacious, more functional piece of technology than HD-DVD - it wasn't about the work, it was about the product - but I digress.

It's not a business. It's a game. Telling people they're poodoo out of luck and out on their own is like telling them it's not worth trying at all. It's horrific to even see it justified. Where's the fun in that?

I didn't come here for a karking Economy Simulator.

Hypothetical: I've spent the past eight months building up my company. Let's say Faction A, B and C just don't like my things, or already have a supplier and can't afford to get any more. Let's say the remaining factions X, Y and Z are not options for whatever reason. I've done poodoo-loads of work and all of it's legitimate - but you just told me that the work means jack because there's nobody to buy. Imagine how pissed off, I mean absolutely on fire, I am going to be. Then the staff/judges group up and push the idea as a group even more. I, hypothetical player, am not gonna want to make anything anymore.

You're only encouraging people to accept what is otherwise seen as a menial boundary that no one is willing to help them pass, and to give up while they're ahead since that's all there's left to do. We're supposed to be driven by members and member content, not shunning it or telling them it's worth any less than anyone else's.

Honestly, my solution is pretty reasonable all things considered. It's incredibly simple.

And just like that, I that's how I found my simple proposal; have the judges do monthly advancement threads to promote observed hard-working companies who haven't gotten their dues in their opinion. Give the underdog a personal bump up for their perseverance.

PS:
And nobody addressed this.

What about the company whose writer isn't a tech guru and whose subs aren't everyone's first pick, but tries hard and puts in plenty of work? Why should their work be ignored?

And this is not a valid argument, because this is totally against the spirit of roleplay.

If no one is buying your IC goods because they are buying a competitors...you won't get profit from that. It works the same way IRL.

So in other words, because on the OOC level we're not perfect and we're not all experts, we should have a poodoo time. Nice.

 

[Nikolas Faselli]

I didn't come here for a karking Economy Simulator.

Yet you own like, a billion of companies and subsidiaries and make the same amount of products for them every day. A clear exaggeration, but still, the concept is the same.

If one deals with companies, things get serious. If a writer brings in companies to their gameplay, they have to understand that it's not just a simple RP anymore, it's a strategy game, it's a game of relationships (OOC ones) with others. Companies shouldn't be as unrealistic as everything else over here. Companies don't work that way that randomly, they become more popular because of nothing.

While I do think that it's a bit unfair, I must agree with Jacen.