Ruusan Invasion

[Arage Bao]

[member="Valiens Nantaris"]

I feel ya and agree that communication between factions is vital for fun and success, but at the same time I can say the same thing. The SSC initiated the invasion and could have simply asked: "Hey, guys, so we are invading, what can we expect in terms of defense on Ruusan?"

Yeah, the ST could have been more clear, but I don't think it's fair to simply push the onus on them and end it there.

We are all in this together at the end of the day.

 

[Coci Heavenshield]

[member="Cole Katarn"]

We did not have to ask this question regarding Ruusan because Darth Adekos had offered this information from the start of the negotiations and per our PM.


Major changes to the planet are as follows:

• The city of Olomondo is in the process of being rebuilt and is attracting refugees from nearby regions. Should be considered moderately fortified.
• The Triumvirate citadel is located in the valley of the Jedi, right on top of the Force Nexus, which has been corrupted by Carach's acolytes on his instructions. Should be considered heavily fortified.
• The fleet presence over Ruusan is major and there are several defensive stations. This should probably just be background noise.

This is part of the initial information provided to us. At no point in the negotiations that commenced on the 8th of June, were we told that Ruusan was the capital of the ST. As per the map, as far as we are concerned it is Nan'thri. This information should have been told to us by ST admins, as we would be, and rightly so, under the impression that Nan'thri to be the capital. We are not privy to any conversation between ST admins and Tef on this, so how could we possibly know this?

 

[Arage Bao]

[member="Coci Heavenshield"]

There wasn't any private conversation between the ST and Tefka, it was all handled in the map update thread as far as I know.

Anyway, let's take this to PM, because I feel like I am cluttering the thread with my obviously biased perspective.

 

[Noah Bright]

To express an interest. I'll have to admit to sitting this one out. Lol.

Though. It's a given that I'd already absolved myself similar by not voting at all in the earlier planning threads and commenting likewise. Meh. I just wasn't sure if my old habits would be of any use in this 'newish' type of Invasion. I'm an old school troll when it comes to combat anyways. My glamorous use of 'Lesbian Beams' and NO-U-SHUTUP pms being evidence enough against me.

So... Sorry for not being there. Hope the next one is Silver and Gold!

#sorry #notsorry

 

[Valiens Nantaris]

[member="Cole Katarn"] [member="Coci Heavenshield"]

The SSC initiated the invasion and could have simply asked: "Hey, guys, so we are invading, what can we expect in terms of defense on Ruusan?"

We did. You were in that PM, and Adekos wrote as Coci mentioned above. You, at no point, put in anything like "Oh hey guys, you know this is our capital and it's also a fortress with X and Y."

Anyway, yes, we are derailing this thread. By all means take it to PM, but I wouldn't like to think this is trying to be used to alter the result of the invasion after the fact.

 

[Connor Harrison]

Well, I can't say I expected an invasion to go smoothly without any problems. A shame, however!

 

[Kei Amadis]

To be to fair to everyone. - With the more flexible ruleset. NPC numbers etc need to be more firmly decided beforehand.

As for the city. I played it as a ruin, as that was what was agreed in the opening premise. I rolled with it as we went, because that's give and take. If it had been described as a fortress Kei would have been shelling it for a few posts to make entry.

Also adding, on the whole I enjoyed it though so well done all.

 

[Siobhan Kerrigan]

I believe [member="Valiens Nantaris"] and [member="Charlyra Araano"] have mostly summed up my thoughts about Ruusan. Probably in a polite manner than I would. :d

As for the city. I played it as a ruin, as that was what was agreed in the opening premise. I rolled with it as we went, because that's give and take. If it had been described as a fortress Kei would have been shelling it for a few posts to make entry.

Same here with Sio.


[member="Kei Amadis"]

 

[Coci Heavenshield]

Hello everyone..

The judge has concluded...

Thank you both for your patience. I want to commend both sides on a wonderful effort in this invasion. It was a pleasure to read through all the minor stories and see the development of many characters in a big way. Also I immensely enjoyed the spin of the rift to Netherworld opening within the Valley of the Jedi. It pleases me that there was zero drama in the OOC and that everyone made a big effort to work with one another, rather than against, for the purpose of story.

After reading through this invasion and taking into consideration all points for the new invasion rules, I rule the invasion of Ruusan in favor of the Sith Triumvirate, as the SSC failed to take either Olmondo or the Valley, nor did they establish any form of control over the planet.

Well done everyone.

 

[Nima Tann]

Two weeks for a story driven invasion was not enough in my opinion, that's why the outcome is like this.

Nima didn't even get to fight properly.

 

[Siobhan Kerrigan]

[member="Nima Tann"], [member="Coci Heavenshield"]

Invasion is to last for 2 weeks, extendible by one week with the agreement of both sides. This sets an end date of July 1st 2016.

So...SSC could have asked for more time.


Though I'm sceptical that would have changed the outcome much. To be blunt, SSC lacked focus, coordination and teamwork. This must also come from the faction leadership.


'Story' is not a magic word that wins invasion. A battle is about winning. I believe SSC also went into the invasion with naive expectations. It also lacked active people who were fighting.


I had to deal with my share of annoying ooc drama due to being in the Olmondo area, but I believe the judgement is fair.

 

[Thurion Heavenshield]

The important thing is to not let this outcome dampen anyone's spirit. We lost, yes, but we didn't actually lose anything. That's the perk of being the aggressor in this game.

Take this as a learning experience. Next time we won't make the same mistakes.

 

[Nima Tann]

I am with [member="Siobhan Kerrigan"] in this one.

-Coordination wasn't good in the invasion, even some members didn't know why we were invading either ICly or OOCly.

-The allies were too much scattered and out of objective, and there was too much sitting around.

-Time was indeed too little to even start the fights.

-I believe the leaders were less interested in this invasion than ST leaders. Their movement was so much more organized and defensive.

-Even though we are attacking, we need to put up a good show. Now, we lost the image of an oppresive force against the Sith, and they'll be more comfortable with the counter attack. We may even lose more territory because of this.

These are the main points that we need to look and try to solve in my opinion.

[member="Coci Heavenshield"] [member="Thurion Heavenshield"]

 

[Coci Heavenshield]

Hello everyone...

I am going to post my opinion that I wrote to the faction admins before this started here.

Spoiler

I will not start finger pointing on this, it is a role play at the end of the day.

Spoiler

But my thoughts are that there was two distinctive styles clashing here. The SSC is a story writing faction, those in the ST are players that write to win and this did not go together. They also have been in more invasions then most of our members and the experience of this showed. It seems to me that regardless of the rules, the deciding factor still revolves around who won what, whether it was PvP or objectives won or lost, so I don't think the rules have changed at all. But I suppose people need time to adjust to it all even the judges.

It was not long enough, two weeks to be able to write good stories for something like this is not enough so that is something we must consider next time, this will give us the advantage as SSC IS very good at that. We did not play to our strength, but they played theirs.

As for organisation, probably could have lined up more structured ideas of defence and attack numbers etc, and it surprised me that this became a factor considering the ST did not want NPC numbers etc., so it would not become a numbers game, but it did. And mostly on their side.

Our mistake came with the talks about this in faction, we had the drive early on with everyone excited to do it, but then we stopped only to start up again weeks later and by then everyone probably had lost interest. We spent too much time talking about who to hit and whys and wherefores. Yes our allies did not do much, but I am not sure what we could do about that, we can't make them post.

Anyway these are my thoughts about it all..

But at the end of the day it really does not matter.

Agree with me or no, these are my thoughts on this. If you have a look at all the threads we talked about the invasions and there are a number of them, I think the initial excitement for this was lost.



http://starwarsrp.net/topic/87656-crunch-time/

The point about not understanding OOCly or ICly why we set to invade the ST seemed to be clear and understood in this thread. So this point has me a little confused to be honest.

 

[Siobhan Kerrigan]

But my thoughts are that there was two distinctive styles clashing here. The SSC is a story writing faction, those in the ST are players that write to win and this did not go together.

I am not sure what you mean by 'story writing'. SSC lost because it lost the IC invasion.


What was the story? SSC invades, ST successfully resists.


Attributing it to the fact that one faction just wanted to write a story and the other wanted to win means evading the point. Invasions are still about winning...you're just not supposed be a prick about it and not stack up duel wins.


Story-wise SSC failed to make solid headway. Now, there were a number of instances I was rather unhappy with ST behaviour in Olmondo and during the space battle (both were a mess), but I believe the RPJ's judgement made sense.

It seems to me that regardless of the rules, the deciding factor still revolves around who won what, whether it was PvP or objectives won or lost, so I don't think the rules have changed at all.

It's a battle. The basic story of one is two sides fighting for control over a planet. There's more to it than who wins this or that duel, but that's what it is. Things will not be magical and shiny 'because story'.


Personally, I'm going to go against the grain and say that I do not believe more time would have changed a lot. Perhaps in some cases, such as in [member="Nima Tann"]'s duel against Carach, since they just got to the good stuff when the invasion was close to finish (this is no blemish against either writer, I enjoyed reading their exchange and think both wrote well).


But if an undertaking like this is that flawed, more time will not change much. SSC's problem was inertia.

Our mistake came with the talks about this in faction, we had the drive early on with everyone excited to do it, but then we stopped only to start up again weeks later and by then everyone probably had lost interest. We spent too much time talking about who to hit and whys and wherefores.

I agree with this point.


Simply saying that we know better and will not make the same mistakes again is all well and good, but talk is easy. A number of these issues popped up at Ziost (though thankfully no one got captured or turned Sith at Ruusan).


If I were running a Sith faction, I'd consider SSC a viable invasion target. Its operational culture needs to change. When GA invaded OS, they organised their people into teams and the leadership was involved in coordinating things.

 

[Coci Heavenshield]

If you think for a moment that I did not want SSC to win you are mistaken. However, I don't hold the win as the paramount reason for posting in threads such as invasions. I did not have enough time to get my side of the story in there going enough to contribute and to be honest I had my own share of OOC drama to contend with as well. A lot in fact, which also contributed to my time being lost to write. But putting that aside, in the future that will be amended.

We the admins of the faction realise now that there were mistakes made, and will look to this if there is another invasion. I am not sure what else to say here.

Unless you can tell me what it is you want us to say?

 

[Siobhan Kerrigan]

[member="Coci Heavenshield"]


No offence meant, but I believe you're missing my point. It appears to me we're talking past one another.


If the issues are acknowledged and addressed in the future, that's good and I'll be happy, though they seem rather deeply ingrained. I would not criticise if I did not care.


Change and direction can obviously not come purely from a faction's leadership. It's an ongoing dialogue between them and the member base (and cannot be forced if the latter or a substantial part of it disagrees). But nonetheless faction leaders are expected lead and provide a general line, pushing where needed.


Anyhow, since the invasion is relevant from an IC perspective, I'll be dealing with it in an IC manner. There'll be repercussions for Siobhan and her stance towards SSC, Jedi etc.

 

[Connor Harrison]

#CivilWar

 

[Noah Bright]

#CivilWar

#yes #yesIdo

 

[Valiens Nantaris]

Not...the civil war again.

#headdesk