Suggestion Single Hex Factions

[Kiff Brayde]

Judah Lesan Makes a good point.

The established precedent with the Fortress World mandate is that you should not be able to have complete immunity. A one-hex faction is basically that fortress world mandate but on a smaller scale.

There are a couple of things I would like to touch on, but one thing I've seen that doesn't make sense to me is people saying 'it's a viable strategy, so leave it be.' Yes, anything that has broken the meta in a game is a viable strategy. For example, in this new season of Destiny, the season pass grenade launcher -- Witherhoard -- is one of the most annoying and broken things I've seen on the game and is probably going to get nerfed. But still, it's 'meta' because it's overpowered. My point is, having something be a viable strategy doesn't justify it.

Another thing is, the map game and invasions are all about being able to hit back if you're invaded -- that's literally the only actual deterrent in the map game, the fact that if you hit someone they're going to hit back. A one-hex faction invading and placing their capitol hex in a place where it can't be easily reached is deliberately toxic; they could hit a faction again and again without having to worry about losing their own territory. Meanwhile, the defending faction could deal with a potentially unlimited amount of invasions, where they either can lose hexes or save their hex, only to just be invaded again.

Also, I've seen accusations, or implications, (not towards me, towards others, but given I'm in the same position it's all the same) that since I'm in the Confederacy faction which is being attacked by a single-hex faction, that my reason for arguing this is purely being driven out of salt, so I want to lay those accusations to rest. I don't have any vendetta against the Agents of Chaos as a faction -- they are a great group of wonderful writers that I enjoy working with, writing with, and I have zero animosity towards them. Same thing on Destiny; I don't hate anyone who uses WItherhoard, but I still think it's a weapon that breaks the meta.

Case and point, if any faction is trying to deliberately exploit the rules to give themselves immunity, that should be dealt with. The Fortress World mandate already establishes a precedent that no faction should be completely immune to being hit back. The solution? I think the most common sense one would be the implementation of a rule saying if you're invading another major faction as a single-hex faction, that major faction is allowed to hit back with an invasion of their own. It's not a mandate, because a major faction shouldn't have to change their mandate just to deal with immunity exploitation. If you're concerned about wanting to be a single-hex major faction and not be invaded, then it's quite simple; don't invade others. If you want to be able to invade others and not be invaded yourself, then that just means you don't want to play by the rules like everyone else, not that you've found this 'viable strategy.'

 

[Allya Vi'Dreya]

K KAR

The short answer to this is: It isn't about the AoC. That group of writers, and their leaders are freaking awesome people, whom I adore. But, the reality of this scenario is; There is a possible exploit. The moment I realized the depth of it, I brought it up. The timing is never good, no matter when you bring something up.

Imagine, a single hex faction. It's invading, rebelling, and invading more. They win, they lose. But, they have placed themselves in one of the most inaccessible parts of the map. Now, this isn't really an issue in and of itself. As many have pointed out, you tendril out, you balloon outwards to try and take them out. You make alliances, you do what it takes. All the while, they got to keep rebelling, keep invading, breaking tendrils and over all fighting to their hearts content. So far, everything is working as intended. It's hard, but it has a solution.

Then, after months of getting close, getting a foot hold in the area, just a few doms away. They grab a mandate that allows them to just...move their hex. Their capital hex is now on the other side of the galaxy, in another uninhabited place, where it will take more months of domming to get to, and then they jump again and so forth.

So, the real question is: Why would we have factions, work for months of rapid development, taking up more and more space on the boards, to try and catch a single hex, that can simply jump around until there is literally no space left for them? What are the solutions? Spawning multiple throw away factions just to catch them? That doesn't make sense. Do we literally flood the board with doms and tendrils, and try and fill up as much space as possible amongst a handful of factions even more so than already, just to catch them? That takes away opportunity and isn't an enjoyable experience.

In this scenario, they are able to go and possibly take away the work and time others put in, but don't have the capacity to lose anything of their own.

Now, do I think AoC would do this? No. I don't. I believe in the integrity of the players and staff. Which is why I keep saying, this isn't a matter of current factions. It's a matter of what COULD be. Copycats are a thing, especially once something works.


Now, as for LT-137 as always, love to read your writing, even in these types of things.

I agree, that Mandate does take care of most of the issues, as it takes away the immunity I worried about, and would shake things up with some interesting capital hex battles in the near future I am sure. Over all, I like it, and agree with it. And I thank you for your open mind in this entire thing.

Though, this does bring up an interesting question I've been hearing more about. Valiens Nantaris I think, for these ideas to work, we need to set down rules about what happens when a faction loses a capital hex. As well as what happens if it loses its last hex. As far as I am aware, they have never been fleshed out.

 

[Valiens Nantaris]

Allya Vi'Dreya
Because it's never happened before and before now was never really in danger of happening.

I will add some consideration to that question when it is discussed. Whether we feel it is necessary to be updated will be part of this larger discussion and how we deal with the situation.

 

[LT-137]

The mandate idea in my last was originally conceived by Fatty, so I'm not taking any credit for taking his idea and simply adding onto it. lol

 

[Kyyrk]

Just jumping in with my two cents: why stop at one hex?

What's stopping a large enough member base from erasing their own cloud, and creating a new super-coalition of single hex factions that all work together? They're all different factions per the rules. They're all a single hex, per the rules. They can all invade, per the rules.
None of them can be invaded, per the rules.

But every single one of them is following the same agenda. New face of multi-hex factions, perchance?

People are right, there are ways around this meta that's been established under the current ruleset. Question is, though, is this really a Meta that's going to be worth embracing?

 

[Allya Vi'Dreya]

Just jumping in with my two cents: why stop at one hex?

What's stopping a large enough member base from erasing their own cloud, and creating a new super-coalition of single hex factions that all work together? They're all different factions per the rules. They're all a single hex, per the rules. They can all invade, per the rules.
None of them can be invaded, per the rules.

But every single one of them is following the same agenda. New face of multi-hex factions, perchance?

People are right, there are ways around this meta that's been established under the current ruleset. Question is, though, is this really a Meta that's going to be worth embracing?

What is your solution then?

 

[Fatty]

R Reyn Australis historically, if a Faction loses it's Capital, it just moves. I don't know if this has happened since the Hexes have been introduced though

 

[Judah Lesan]

R Reyn Australis the last time a capital was lost only the planet was lost. It did not impact the cloud otherwise.

 

[Scherezade deWinter]

Agents of Chaos are not hitting the Confederacy's capital hex and I'm not sure why people think we are. Their capital planet is Geonosis, and Tatooine is in the hex as well. There's absolutely nothing that lets us do that even if we wanted to, unless we nomad into one of the now two empty hexes, or do the weirdest of tentacles ever to dominion towards them, and by the time that is done, they'll have had more than sufficient time to re-dom those empty hexes and build up a much thicker wall that stretches to the complete eastern side of the map.

 

[Kyyrk]

Allya Vi'Dreya

I'm of the mind that the best solution, assuming that single hex immunity is a bad thing, is that once you are a single hex, you lose capital immunity and can be invaded across the map.

If we see no reason to change the single Hex immunity, my solution has already been shared: single hex planet-states that band together to create a coalition, in the vein of ancient greece

 

[Republic Engineering]

If One Capital hex loses it's immunity, then all of them should - regardless of the size of their cloud. Plain and simple, lol.

 

[Ryv]

If One Capital hex loses it's immunity, then all of them should - regardless of the size of their cloud. Plain and simple, lol.

Absolutely.

 

[Ellie Mors]

I personally find the idea of removing all/any capital hex immunity as an extreme solution to a single problem.

If you have a problem with single-hex faction, solve it in a way that doesn't effect everyone else. Leave the rest of the factions on the board out of this.

 

[Argis Volmir]

Waaaaahhhh Its not fair! We're being invaded and can't think of anything. Waaaaahhhhh

Either do the suggested mandate that Fatty put forward, or tentacle your way over to them like this is an explicit japanese film. Either way get over your spilled milk and remember this is a RP forum. Go outside and breathe some fresh air.

Sincerly Yours -Waddles

 

[Cay-Yo]

I like Nessa's & AoC's thinking outside of the box, but I also know what it feels like to not have a seemingly viable answer to another faction(s) actions. There is a lot being discussed, mostly positively I think, but there is also some people pushing the OOC Drama button. There have been a lot of great generalized suggestions.

I get it, I think this is a direct response for what happened to the CIS by the AOC as well, but what I don't think is that Metus or Nessa are trying to harm one another's playerbase. Because that is what it boils down to. What is or is not good for the playerbase of the factions involved.

Clearly one playerbase enjoys, immensely, the single hex raider play style. While the other wants to expand through ludicrous amounts of the galaxy (no hate). Both should be preserved as best as they can. Idealistic I know, I'm not naive. Personally I am not great with game design, though I do know that if a player isn't satisfied with the rules they won't play the game or will attempt to circumvent the rule.

The AoC staff and the CIS staff need to come together as a cooperative effort to find as much of a balance as both are willing to accept and present it to the staff for proof/revision. We can postulate here and offer suggestions about balances and tweaks but if the affected players are not satisfied that their side has been done justice then we will continue to have this discussion and it'll never get any better. To clarify I'm not advocating for separate rules for separate factions. A multilateral approach from the people that steer the site's storyline and what dozens of people sink hundreds of their real life hours into is what this takes.

At the end of the day we're all playing a big game of make believe. When kids make believe they become friends, entertain differing opinions, and have fun even when they argue. They don't pick at old wounds, make snide retorts, or try to expose one another. Perhaps we could all do with being a bit more childish for a change.