Solo Dev versus Group Dev

[Raziel]

We've done the rounds a few times on this.

My view is that a lot of dev is meh stuff written off board and then chopped into 100 word posts.

Ra raises a good point that our restricted challenges should be exciting things for groups to do. But it extends to more than this.

Open session:

Do you agree with my view above?

What can we do to encourage exciting content written by groups of roleplayers? [I want more Restricted challenges, but I agree we should make them exciting for groups]

Should we more regularly require X writers to be involved, just like we do with starships?

 

[Cira]

Group missions would be a bit tricky because then how much material does each person get?

Just enough for one semi unique item? How many posts must they contribute? 5 or 10?

What is your viable template on how Group Missions and their rewards should be processed?

 

[Raziel]

I'm having a think. Let's just have a fairly open discussion and try to keep it simple.

In my mind a group that does some dev for a restricted mat should be rewarded, compared to one person that spams ten posts.

It takes long to do it as a group, but it's behaviour we should be encouraging. It'll do more for improving quality than grading IMO

 

[Allyson Locke]

I like the idea of group quests, possibly we place it on and go "well if you do it in a group you get more reward/spoils" we can have another list of challenges that the group must overcome and still remain to have the single challenges be there, in case someone wants to do it on their own. [member="Raziel"] [member="Cira"]

 

[Cira]

The thing about group threads is that most just post a few posts, then don't even finish their part or even complete the story.

So this can go hand in hand with how we are attempting to go for more storybased dev threads.

Maybe we can tie this into that? Along with a specific mission?

Group threads must:
Development Thread Requirements
The more these qualities are presented in your final composition, the more likely a powerful submission may be considered for the story submitted. Maintaining fairness and balance for the factory submission still apply.

1. Construct and complete a story with a believable plot-line.
2. All posts within the story must be made to be quality posts.
3. The storyline must have some involvement of the submission or parts of the submission (i.e; restricted materials objective, research & development, and so on).
4. Failure to adhere to this may lead to adding another complete story with a believable plotline for your development.

The following will be considered when judging a development thread.

• Story. Is the thread completed only for the sake of completing the objective? Are the writers attempting to create a meaningful story or just complete the objective?
• Development. How much focus was on the materials utilized in the submission? How heavily was the submission featured in the development thread? Was the submission created in the thread?
• Entertainment. The value of entertainment provided by writers in a development thread can positively impact the worth of a development thread.
• Effort. The amount of effort put into the development thread by writers participating will positively impact those writers in submission utilizing it. This includes, but is not limited to - quality of writing, cooperation with other characters, and creativity in completing objectives for restricted materials.

[member="Spencer Varanin"] [member="Raziel"]

 

[Cira]

Or even easier, have it be like a dominion. A thread of mining, raiding, looting, the restricted item as a group. All members involved must follow the above curriculum and at least contribute actively in the story. ( minimum five posts each)

 

[Raziel]

I've already said Im not comfortable with the notion of a formal ranking system with points. (other than for internal checking)

I like the notion of outlining we'll grade dev based on story, effort and entertainment.

We can easily paraphrase that everyone who provides a reasonable contribution can use the dev. I'd rather not a number because the amount of dev might vary...

I like the idea of having an easier challenge for a group to do for restricted mats.



People will always take the path of least resistance.

The current path is to solo spam 1000 words.

Let's find innovative ways to make an immersive group story that path.

 

[Cira]

The issue is, how fair is distribution of restricted materials if only a few post three times while others do twenty or more?

There is more involved than just- hey group people make a dev together and get the material

It becomes no different than a dominion where often times the story doesn't even finish.

 

[Raziel]

Can we focus on potential ideas and problems later?

Just some high level brainstorming.

"How can we encourage more group dev"

 

[Jorus Merrill]

Separate and more interesting objectives for 3+ writers, maybe?

[member="Raziel"]

 

[Raziel]

[member="Jorus Merrill"]

• Expanding challenges for dev, and having separate/easier/fun ones for groups
• Letting everyone in a dev thread submit someone based on the thread as long as they contribute a reasonable amount
• More frequently requesting dev include 1 or more other writer (e.g. this requires 20 more posts and must have 2 writers minimum)
• Collaboration bonus for dev (added to the list above, higher rating for dev with more members contributing)
• Oktoberfest: All development threads for items submitted in October must feature at least 2 writers and include come consumption of alcohol

 

[ADM. Reshmar]

@Raziel @Jorus Merrill @Cira @Spencer Varanin

this all sounds cool but there is just so much development needed for stuff and most do not want to do it anyway. piling on even more limitations on top of it will just cause people to stop doing development.
some of these kids are just learning how to do this so yeah you see 1000 post breakdowns. It is because they are young and have not figured out writing yet. For writers that have been doing this for years sure this is an awesome idea but we deal with kids who have not. then we have people like Jaime who writes up his posts in a doc then posts it all. I see giving bonuses for this but not requiring it as normal.

 

[Zef Halo]

Adding additional objectives as alternatives on top of the current objectives is a good way to kickstart that. I will have more input when I get the time to think this through. I like the idea because certainly development threads could be made more than a wall of text divided into 10 posts. On another note, slightly different topic, I've always found how factions disregard skirmishes on their territories for restricted materials and I would really love to improve it in a way for people to actually consider them as 'threatening'. But that's another topic lol, sry.

So yeah, I am definitely game for introducing some additional objectives that stimulate group writing!

 

[Ellie Mors]

Holy over complicated, Batman.

I'll post thoughts when I get home.

 

[Ellie Mors]

Group missions would be a bit tricky because then how much material does each person get?

Just enough for one semi unique item? How many posts must they contribute? 5 or 10?

What is your viable template on how Group Missions and their rewards should be processed?

Give them an objective (or two), give them a minimum writer participation (i.e; Minimum of 3 writers), then just judge based on their participation. If they only contributed a minor amount (and by minor I mean small) to the overall development then decide how much you (as the judge) feel their contribution earns them.

There is no reason to define this. That is lunacy.

The thing about group threads is that most just post a few posts, then don't even finish their part or even complete the story.

Then they get nothing.

In my mind a group that does some dev for a restricted mat should be rewarded, compared to one person that spams ten posts. It takes long to do it as a group, but it's behaviour we should be encouraging. It'll do more for improving quality than grading IMO

If we're not switching over to not requiring posts, then go ahead and give them a minimum post + writer count. 20 posts, 2-3 writers. Let them have minor, whereas the single person who spams 20 posts in their solo thread gets limited from 20 (usually). This is just an example, but we can accommodate a bigger reward for group objectives. You just need the group objectives themselves

The issue is, how fair is distribution of restricted materials if only a few post three times while others do twenty or more?

There is more involved than just- hey group people make a dev together and get the material

It becomes no different than a dominion where often times the story doesn't even finish.

If they contribute less than they get less. Let's try to not overcomplicate this. Keep it simple, the more you contribute the more you get.

Separate and more interesting objectives for 3+ writers, maybe?

[member="Raziel"]

This makes the most sense to me. Why don't we just draw up some objectives geared towards groups for restricted materials, slap on a minimum writer participation amount (maybe minimum post if it's entirely necessary) and go from there? I don't understand why we're getting so wrapped up in what is already handled on a daily basis in the factory where we get 5-6 people doing mining and raiding threads.

Expanding challenges for dev, and having separate/easier/fun ones for groups

Works for me.

Letting everyone in a dev thread submit someone based on the thread as long as they contribute a reasonable amount

Makes sense.

More frequently requesting dev include 1 or more other writer (e.g. this requires 20 more posts and must have 2 writers minimum)

Just make new objectives that require 2+ writers. As much as I'd love to post with other people, it is very difficult for some of us to actually get a group together.

Collaboration bonus for dev (added to the list above, higher rating for dev with more members contributing)

I think I mentioned this earlier in this post, so sure. Just give more leniency regarding production & features when members opt to use the group objectives or are doing collaborative writing.

Oktoberfest: All development threads for items submitted in October must feature at least 2 writers and include come consumption of alcohol

Is this a joke? :|

@Raziel @Jorus Merrill @Cira @Spencer Varanin

this all sounds cool but there is just so much development needed for stuff and most do not want to do it anyway. piling on even more limitations on top of it will just cause people to stop doing development.
some of these kids are just learning how to do this so yeah you see 1000 post breakdowns. It is because they are young and have not figured out writing yet. For writers that have been doing this for years sure this is an awesome idea but we deal with kids who have not. then we have people like Jaime who writes up his posts in a doc then posts it all. I see giving bonuses for this but not requiring it as normal.

Yes. Make this a secondary option, do not replace everything with group stuff. You will be killing those of us (myself included) who are only here in very short bursts of free time to try to have fun. More choices, less restrictions.

 

[Raziel]

Is this a joke? :|

Mostly. Though I would have no issue with banning all solo dev for two weeks of submissions Would give the FJs a nice break and force people to find some groups

 

[Raziel]

The following criteria will be considered when judging if a development thread is suitable for a submission (additional development and/or reduced production/strengths may be required if thread falls short, or you may be permitted increased production/strengths if the thread is judged favourably):

• Story. The writers should attempting to create a meaningful story
• Development. The creation of the submission, or the gathering materials/components for it, should be a heavy focus of the thread, but see point 1
• Entertainment. The development thread should be entertaining to read
• Effort. The amount of effort shall be appraised. This includes, but is not limited to: quality of writing; planning; execution and creativity in completing objectives for restricted materials.
• Collaboration: Working with other writers is heavily favoured in development threads. All members who make a reasonable contribution may use the thread as development, or the whole thread can be used for one large submission.

 

[Raziel]

1) What else could go on the restricted materials list? (Special hides like terentatek etc?)
2) Ideas for fun group challenges to be added to existing ones (e.g. OR with 2+ Writers complete a Bounty Hunt of a Player Character)

 

[Cira]

1) What else could go on the restricted materials list? (Special hides like terentatek etc?)

This is a completely different conversation/ topic Raz.

I see you trying to sneak it in. Focus on what we have now and the group restricted dev for our current brainstorm.

 

[Raziel]

More restricted lists (of things which we already ask for dev on) = more group challenges = less spamming out of 100 post crappy dev