Sic transit gloria mundi
Very true. But Grievous was actually a threat in it.
Star Wars Roleplay: Chaos
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Star Wars: The Clone Wars. Who else hated it?
- Thread starter Sandis Veeran
- Start date
It was fun to watch in small doses.
/end rant
/que applause
- Ret-cons: Omg! Everywhere! Ret-con this. Ret-con that. Ret-con him. Ret-con you. Red clone, blue clone too! Oh-ma-gerd! Slowww down Dr Seuss!
- TV Timeslot: Que banner. Go. Stop. Go. Stop. Resolve plot. End. Credits. Cliffhanger. Oh-ma-gerd! Slowww down Powerthirst!
- Fan Service: Mandos here. Boba Fett there. Fan Service plot-holes everywhere! Sloww down Fan Girls!
- Stormtrooper Effect: Yep. Alive and kicking. ...Fail. Slowww down Clone Troopers! Just stand still and take it like a man.
/end rant
/que applause
Sirella Valkner
Because I'm a plant.
The reason why the Clone Wars is bad is because of Stuart Snydar the current president and CEO of Cartoon Network. Mr. Snydar took over for Jim Samples after the Aquateen Hunger Force Bomb threat incident. Mr. Snydar is on record in several places as saying "I don't like cartoons." and "I hate cartoons." A year later we get the Clone Wars. Mr. Snydar has since systematically cancelled good shows, put live action crap on the network, and dumbed down successful shows in order to appeal to the lowest common denominator. A great example of this is Young Justice. Young Justice was awesome and the show doubled the Saturday morning audience. IT was also a show that appealed mostly to older people. Studies showed that the median viewer range was 15-30. So this award winning show that doubled his morning audience he cancelled it. Why? It didn't appeal to his view of what cartoons should be, stupid drabbles for little babies. As if that wasn't enough he is replacing that show with Teen Titans Go! Because Teen Titans wasn't childish enough now he's mixing it with Power Puff Girls and throwing it into the DC hour time block. This same treatment was given to the Clone Wars, which accounts for its overly simplified form.
Sandis Veeran
GIF Queen
Good answer. I loved Young Justice. I wish I could blame him for the Spectacular Spider-Man being cancelled (MY FAVORITE SHOW OF ALL TIME), but that was Disney. Ultimate Spider-Man is not nearly as good as Spectacular was. Honestly, it's like Cartoon Network and Disney BOTH kinda hate their audiences. Case in point: Disney shut down LucasArts.
Sirella Valkner
Because I'm a plant.
Disney shutting down LucasArts is probably a smart move in the long term to be honest. But yeah I tend to agree. Ultimate Spider-man is weak compared to spectacular spider-man but it was also a tactical move because of how the comic book is going with Marvel Now! And also to cash in on the Marvel Movies. Superior Spider-Man (the current comic run) is kind of stupid. Hey Doc Oc has taken over Peter Parkers body and now he's Spider-Man because Peter Parkers memories have overtaken the old bitter man.... yeah not buying marvel. It won't last though. Which is also why Young Justice was cancelled I think. DC did their "reboot" of comics with New 52 but young justice was still working on the pre-reboot model. The entire purpose of the reboot was to attract fans of TV shows to comics so having a TV show not in line with that hurt. The entire New 52 Reboot was pretty raw awful though. It’s like DC comics raped my childhood.
Kamon's OOC
Well-Known Member
I never watched it because it never interested me. It seemed way too geared towards little kids for my liking.
Selena Halcyon
Jedi Master
I like it. It is fun. It has more SW. Very little actually offends me. Are some of the things a tad bit silly? Sure. But I still find it altogether enjoyable. Darth Maul being alive was odd, but really... was actually some of the best stuff in Clone Wars. Maul was probably the most compelling Sith character to date with what they did with him in Clone Wars. Dude just radiated darkside. Everything he said was laced with what Sith really are. It was incredibly awesome. I was skeptical about the move but the move worked out and I loved it. The Mandalorian thing I really enjoyed as well. It put a fun twist on things. It added a good ongoing arc that added another element to the Clone Wars. I really enjoyed it...
Sandis Veeran
GIF Queen
Selena, don't even get me STARTED ON THE MANDALORIANS! GOSH!
Ugh, that was their biggest crime.
Mandalorians were absolutely awesome. They were like the Krogan; they fought for Honor, and for the fun of it.
SO WHY WERE THEY FREAKING HIPPIES IN THE SHOW?!
That was the worst thing they could have done to them; completely change their nature. The cool guys were terrorists. I mean, I'm fine with the Mandalorians being villains for the show, but don't make them TERRORISTS!
Ugh, that was their biggest crime.
Mandalorians were absolutely awesome. They were like the Krogan; they fought for Honor, and for the fun of it.
SO WHY WERE THEY FREAKING HIPPIES IN THE SHOW?!
That was the worst thing they could have done to them; completely change their nature. The cool guys were terrorists. I mean, I'm fine with the Mandalorians being villains for the show, but don't make them TERRORISTS!
Selena Halcyon
Jedi Master
That is too easy of a reaction to have imo. I found it fun, and it added a ton to the mandalorians.
Davin Jusik
TIE Bomber LT- DREX
Hated it. Don't count it in my Star Wars Universe.
Not the older one though where the battles/story didn't conflict with canon.
Not the older one though where the battles/story didn't conflict with canon.
Sheena
Member
I adored it. Best thing to come out of Star Wars since Return of the Jedi.
To address some of your criticisms; the Force was in line with the movies. The Force Unleashed is the anomaly, not The Clone Wars. We see Anakin, the Chosen One, at the height of his power in Revenge of the Sith, and he barely uses the Force above a tool. It's not that powerful. Not in the movie-verse. All this planet destroying/flying/force storm fleet eradicating/super-powered stuff came from the EU. And there's nothing wrong with that, but it's not a film thing, and so the series kept consistent with the tone of the movies. Unlike the original cartoon too, in which they were so over-powered Star Wars EU actually made up the idea that one of the episodes was actually an in universe Jedi propaganda cartoon! (Also, I only recall Anakin being captured once, and that's when he's beat in to the ground by Dooku who defeats him by using the Force...)
The Hutts? The only Hutt 'parent' we ever see is 'Mama the Hutt' (a terrible character, I'll admit), a single parent of Ziro the Hutt (another terrible character). No father, so no lore broken. And even if it was, the details of Hutt reproduction are hardly a major issue to complain about in a 100+ episode TV show.
Also, Ventress never defeated Savage. She caused him to run away when he was fighting her and Count Dooku at the same time, and later managed to escape from him (with Obi-Wan's help). But to be honest, that just sounds like a fanboy criticism 'my favourite character isn't as awesome as I want him to be!', not a legitimate criticism towards the show. AS for revolving around politics? The political episodes were pretty rare, but mostly used to flesh out the Star Wars universe, which was good.
As for the Mandalorians, the warrior Mandalorians do return. It was to set up a plot arc, and by the end of series 5, the Mandalore is back under control of warrior Mandalorians.
To address some of your criticisms; the Force was in line with the movies. The Force Unleashed is the anomaly, not The Clone Wars. We see Anakin, the Chosen One, at the height of his power in Revenge of the Sith, and he barely uses the Force above a tool. It's not that powerful. Not in the movie-verse. All this planet destroying/flying/force storm fleet eradicating/super-powered stuff came from the EU. And there's nothing wrong with that, but it's not a film thing, and so the series kept consistent with the tone of the movies. Unlike the original cartoon too, in which they were so over-powered Star Wars EU actually made up the idea that one of the episodes was actually an in universe Jedi propaganda cartoon! (Also, I only recall Anakin being captured once, and that's when he's beat in to the ground by Dooku who defeats him by using the Force...)
The Hutts? The only Hutt 'parent' we ever see is 'Mama the Hutt' (a terrible character, I'll admit), a single parent of Ziro the Hutt (another terrible character). No father, so no lore broken. And even if it was, the details of Hutt reproduction are hardly a major issue to complain about in a 100+ episode TV show.
Also, Ventress never defeated Savage. She caused him to run away when he was fighting her and Count Dooku at the same time, and later managed to escape from him (with Obi-Wan's help). But to be honest, that just sounds like a fanboy criticism 'my favourite character isn't as awesome as I want him to be!', not a legitimate criticism towards the show. AS for revolving around politics? The political episodes were pretty rare, but mostly used to flesh out the Star Wars universe, which was good.
As for the Mandalorians, the warrior Mandalorians do return. It was to set up a plot arc, and by the end of series 5, the Mandalore is back under control of warrior Mandalorians.
Sandis Veeran
GIF Queen
Utter garbage, next.Sheena said:
My issue with the Force still remains valid; the reason they couldn't use it like they did in the expanded universe is because they didn't have the movie making technology. Sure, Anakin was at the height of his power in Episode III. But Starkiller was still not as powerful as him in the Force Unleashed, which I mentioned because Anakin is supposed to be the -THE- Chosen One, the savior of the Jedi. He had more midi chlorians than Yoda, and yet he couldn't push someone to save his life. The Jedi were supposed to be GODS with the Force, considering there were only a select few who could use it against them. And yet he was captured bySheena said:
Droids
Count Dooku
Slavers
and a whole lot more.
It just doesn't make sense. If Darth Vader, almost 17 years after the height of his power, can block a fully charged force blast by his lesser-powered apprentice, why can't he do more than lift a box 2 years before his full height?
In that same story arc, I believe Ziro the Hutt meets his mother, then finds the body of his father. I'm a purist, though, so breaking details like that annoys me.Sheena said:
Like I said, I'm not real clear as to what happened since it's been so long.Sheena said:
Still doesn't change the fact that NO ONE CARES! And they practically made up the entire second season.Sheena said:
Now that's just bad writing. Why break the established canon (without even making it cool) for absolutely no reason other than to return to the canon? Why do it in the first place when you could make cooler episodes?Sheena said:
And I think we're also forgetting that there is a whole story arc on Mon Calamari where everybody's lightsabers work underwater. The only Jedi to have a lightsaber to do that was Kit Fisto, which is why they sent him to Mon Calamari in the first place. Not like it matters though, because NO ONE USED THEM IN THAT ARC.
Sandis Veeran
GIF Queen
Accidentally double posted, excuse me.
Sheena
Member
I'm afraid I couldn't disagree with you any more. I mean, it seems 90% of your issues stem from the fact that on screen Star Wars has never followed the EU canon. It didn't happen with the prequel movies (remember, prior to that, the clones were the bad guys in the Clone Wars!) and it didn't happen in the The Clone Wars show. What we got were original storylines, mostly from Lucas's head that he wanted to tell. Like we got with the prequels. It was never going to follow 'canon' because on screen Star Wars never has followed the EU. It steals ideas from it, but it never follows it. The Clone Wars actually had more EU references than any movie, though!
And no, your issue with the Force is not valid. Revenge of the Sith remains one of the most impressive visual effect films of all time. They did not lack the technology to realise the Force. They chose, artistically, to not portray it in an over the top manner because that's how its creator wants it to be seen. They could easily have had Anakin flying around shooting lightening bolts if they wanted to, or levitating lava and chucking it at Obi-Wan, or anything else, those kind of CGI effects existed in 2005. They chose not to use them. It was an artistic decision because as far as George Lucas is concerned, the Force doesn't work the way it does in the EU and in The Force Unleashed. The Force Unleashed had over-powered Force powers to make the gameplay fun, not because that's how the Force is meant to be in the movies.
The Clone Wars continued to show this. Anakin in The Clone Wars is as powerful as he is in Revenge of the Sith. And he manages some extremely impressive Force feats. He tears down an underwater building with just the Force in one, in another he literally whips two Force-entity monsters using only the Force in combat against them, pinning them to the ground. In another, Obi-Wan levitates two super battledroids and crushes them with the Force. In yet another, we see the Jedi push the Force to its limits to mind trick somebody with the will to resist them, akin to torture. The Force is portrayed as powerful. It's just that the Jedi aren't portrayed as 'Gods', because despite what you say, they were never meant to be. Remember, Jedi get felled by ordinary people in the movies all the time. Order 66 would never have worked if they were 'gods' with the Force. They're not meant to be gods. They're meant to be warriors with a mystical aid. And that's how they're portrayed in the Clone Wars.
I'm 90% sure Ziro never finds the body of his father. I don't remember that at all. Ziro himself gets killed and the Jedi find his body, maybe you're thinking of that?
People did care about the politics, but I can't say I remember it being a significant part of the second season. That season had Cad Bane stealing holocrons, Sidious attempting to breed apprentices, the second Battle of Geonosis, zombies, Obi-Wan and Greivous battling each other... that's off the top of my head. I think it had that one political episode with Padme visiting a Trade Federation senator, but that was it? Season 3 had maybe three or four political themed episodes, but they were usually stopping assassinations or something exciting.
As for lightsabers underwater, it's not really an issue. We never see lightsabers underwater in the films, and as I said, they're based on screen canon only. But if it helps you sleep, remember, we don't know if they didn't modify their lightsabers prior to the mission. They easily could have.
And no, your issue with the Force is not valid. Revenge of the Sith remains one of the most impressive visual effect films of all time. They did not lack the technology to realise the Force. They chose, artistically, to not portray it in an over the top manner because that's how its creator wants it to be seen. They could easily have had Anakin flying around shooting lightening bolts if they wanted to, or levitating lava and chucking it at Obi-Wan, or anything else, those kind of CGI effects existed in 2005. They chose not to use them. It was an artistic decision because as far as George Lucas is concerned, the Force doesn't work the way it does in the EU and in The Force Unleashed. The Force Unleashed had over-powered Force powers to make the gameplay fun, not because that's how the Force is meant to be in the movies.
The Clone Wars continued to show this. Anakin in The Clone Wars is as powerful as he is in Revenge of the Sith. And he manages some extremely impressive Force feats. He tears down an underwater building with just the Force in one, in another he literally whips two Force-entity monsters using only the Force in combat against them, pinning them to the ground. In another, Obi-Wan levitates two super battledroids and crushes them with the Force. In yet another, we see the Jedi push the Force to its limits to mind trick somebody with the will to resist them, akin to torture. The Force is portrayed as powerful. It's just that the Jedi aren't portrayed as 'Gods', because despite what you say, they were never meant to be. Remember, Jedi get felled by ordinary people in the movies all the time. Order 66 would never have worked if they were 'gods' with the Force. They're not meant to be gods. They're meant to be warriors with a mystical aid. And that's how they're portrayed in the Clone Wars.
I'm 90% sure Ziro never finds the body of his father. I don't remember that at all. Ziro himself gets killed and the Jedi find his body, maybe you're thinking of that?
People did care about the politics, but I can't say I remember it being a significant part of the second season. That season had Cad Bane stealing holocrons, Sidious attempting to breed apprentices, the second Battle of Geonosis, zombies, Obi-Wan and Greivous battling each other... that's off the top of my head. I think it had that one political episode with Padme visiting a Trade Federation senator, but that was it? Season 3 had maybe three or four political themed episodes, but they were usually stopping assassinations or something exciting.
As for lightsabers underwater, it's not really an issue. We never see lightsabers underwater in the films, and as I said, they're based on screen canon only. But if it helps you sleep, remember, we don't know if they didn't modify their lightsabers prior to the mission. They easily could have.
Sandis Veeran
GIF Queen
Sheena, please watch this. Tell me this is not cooler than EVERYTHING from the new Clone Wars.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VB_vjVxcic
They not only use their surroundings in the fight, they use the Force more times in six minutes than the new one does in a whole two episodes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSrH1b-nQ28
There's a reason why all the Jedi Knights became Generals during the Clone Wars: they were invincible on the Battlefield.
Why would you take a masterpiece like this show was and not even go on par with it in the new one? It just doesn't make sense.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VB_vjVxcic
They not only use their surroundings in the fight, they use the Force more times in six minutes than the new one does in a whole two episodes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSrH1b-nQ28
There's a reason why all the Jedi Knights became Generals during the Clone Wars: they were invincible on the Battlefield.
Why would you take a masterpiece like this show was and not even go on par with it in the new one? It just doesn't make sense.
Sheena
Member
Have you seen the Sidious/Maul/Savage duel? I'd say that's certainly 'cooler' than that, although personally, I don't rank fight sequences on 'cool', but on the story and motivation. I actually do really like the fight at the end of Clone Wars (the original cartoon), it's very well done, but I do prefer some of the story based duels found The Clone Wars (cgi version). Obi-Wan's duel against Maul and Savage is another highlight, wielding two lightsabers as he takes them both on.
Sandis Veeran
GIF Queen
Another thing, if a story can't be consistent with it's own lore, then why have the lore at all? You're comparing the movies and Expanded Universe as if they're totally different; they're not. They're the same thing. They're both Star Wars.
Also, the difference between the two shows is that the original was entirely made up of the most epic action sequences possible. The new one has only a few that are even on par with it.
Also, the difference between the two shows is that the original was entirely made up of the most epic action sequences possible. The new one has only a few that are even on par with it.
Davin Jusik
TIE Bomber LT- DREX
How do either of those make sense though?
Davin Jusik
TIE Bomber LT- DREX
Ehh. Think you're overestimating force users a lot. Many of them died, the force alone doesn't make you all powerful.Sandis Veeran said: