Suggestion: Remove Civilian Ship Size Limits

[Itash Mecetti]

Kuat Drive Yards and Mon Calamari Shipyards had their great orbital shipyards.

Coruscant was/is lined with Skyhooks that have elevators stretching out through the atmosphere to reach its destination.

Great merchant companies existed with fleets that carried wares through the Galaxy. Lucrehulks 3000m wide that could hold metric tons of cargo.

Star Wars is full of these kind of examples. Stations and ships coming in different sizes and shapes, being controlled by nations and corporations alike.

I get that Chaos can’t exactly follow suit and remove restrictions altogether. There will always be the need to maintain balance when it comes to ships of war and military installations.

I propose the removal of the restrictions (both maximum fleet and length) on civilian ships and space stations. They aren’t military ships- they get no armament, the bare necessity of shields- balance isn’t an issue here.

Why can’t a company submit shipyards that match or at least approximate those of the past? It is often said that the focus should be on chaos canon companies, yet, they cannot ever reach the same heights as those ancient companies with the current rules as they stand. Well, one person has done that after doing about 400 posts in the past.

But dev threads are a thing of the past now, and there is no way forward for these types of submissions.

Balance isn’t the issue (See the points mentioned above). Chaos is moving in the direction of fewer and fewer regulations. This gives people more freedom to create and be creative, while having to worry less about numbers and limitations that don’t alter game balance.

That’s my suggestion: remove size restrictions on civilian ships and stations, both fleet numbers as well as lengths. Let companies (no matter the tier), major factions, minor factions own and operate civilian ships, stations, and fleets at will.

It doesn’t hurt anyone, and it benefits the community at large by offering new flavor and lore to rival Star War’s rich history

 

[Darth Carnifex]

I support this 100%

Civilian ships such as hyper-cargo transports would be an amazing thing to have on Chaos, and they would be incapable of serving in a combat role so you wouldn't need to worry about someone trying to subvert the normal length limits.

 

[Lief]

Fully agree with the sentiments shown here. They're not going to turn the tide of fleeting combat, just add more flavour and possibilities to civilian/non-combat oriented roleplay (which is always a benefit).

 

[Siobhan Kerrigan]

Suggestion seems balanced to me. I support this.


If restrictions regarding civilian ships and stations are not removed in their entirety, I'd favour loosening them at least. I'd keep regulations in place for military stuff, but it's a different matter for civilian things, as these do not seem gamebreaking to me. Set the worldcraft/worldships free.

 

[Cassandra Paige]

I love this- increases player freedom while not upsetting game balance. Give give.

 

[Dunames Lopez]

While my canon company, Star Tours, can get behind unlimited total civilian ship length, and not simply for IC reasons, I have one question: would a 5-10km civilian ship (not station, there's a distinction that needs to be made) still be subjected to the SSD rules?

 

[Itash Mecetti]

While my canon company, Star Tours, can get behind unlimited total civilian ship length, and not simply for IC reasons, I have one question: would a 5-10km civilian ship (not station, there's a distinction that needs to be made) still be subjected to the SSD rules?

It would not in the change I am proposing.

Super Star Destroyers have the potential of radically shifting or shaping the balance on a field of battle. Civilian ships (no matter how large it is) don't have this potential. They don't belong in a battle.

So, if balance isn't an issue, there is no need to regulate it like a SSD.

 

[Darth Prazutis]

I support this completely. We've been getting so many incredible changes to Chaos of late and this would allow ships that have long been part of star wars canon, without having to worry about someone gaming the system and subverting the rules.

 

[Kei Amadis]

I agree sounds a good idea.

I would advise a rule be made so they physically can't be used in an invasion/skirmish/rebellion (ramming for example), but yeah otherwise why not.

 

[Fiolette Fortan]

Oh good thought [member="Kei Amadis"], but yes, totally support this 100%!

 

[Alric Kuhn]

While I agree with this in principal because it would allow my company to run wild(Vanir Technologies, best in construction and production of Fringe Science) with construction projects, there is a glaring oversight.

The restrictions on Civilian technology mostly exist not because of military balance, but rather what is possible(Also actually why most Military/Fleet size charts exist). Much of what you mentioned, Lucrehulks, skyhooks, etc were all built with the assistance of governments or corporations that were the size of Governments(Kuat, Trade Federation both had representation in the Senate, they were government bodies). So it's not a question of military application but one of resource.

A Tier 1 Corporation wouldn't logically be able to build a Shipyard as large as Kuat, nor would a Minor Faction. A Tier 6 or Major Faction though? I can see that.

Basically I'm advocating that restrictions shouldn't be done away with but rather reapplied where construction projects match the size of the Corporation or Faction doing them.

 

[Lok Xiangu]

I support this.

Love it.

 

[Itash Mecetti]

While I agree with this in principal because it would allow my company to run wild(Vanir Technologies, best in construction and production of Fringe Science) with construction projects, there is a glaring oversight.

The restrictions on Civilian technology mostly exist not because of military balance, but rather what is possible(Also actually why most Military/Fleet size charts exist). Much of what you mentioned, Lucrehulks, skyhooks, etc were all built with the assistance of governments or corporations that were the size of Governments(Kuat, Trade Federation both had representation in the Senate, they were government bodies). So it's not a question of military application but one of resource.

A Tier 1 Corporation wouldn't logically be able to build a Shipyard as large as Kuat, nor would a Minor Faction. A Tier 6 or Major Faction though? I can see that.

Basically I'm advocating that restrictions shouldn't be done away with but rather reapplied where construction projects match the size of the Corporation or Faction doing them.

Factory in itself is primarily focused on balance and much less about IC things like resources, viability, in my experience. Which is why I focused on that particular point in my proposal.

That being said, I think a compromise like that would be reasonable as long as the regulations are much much more relaxed compared to military stuff.

 

[Valiens Nantaris]

Speaking personally as someone who makes this stuff often rather than as Admin, I am all for it. However, I do share [member="Alric Kuhn"]'s concerns about Tier 1 companies designing something extravagant and beyond their means.

[member="Itash Mecetti"] I therefore suggest the following:

Double the production sizes found here: http://starwarsrp.net/topic/121333-starship-templates-50/for civilian ships and stations for minor factions and tiers 1-3.

Starting at tier 4 play with the production values for ships but make civilian stations rapidly go up in size. Tier 6 and Major Factions have no effective limit as to the size of stations they can build, and can maintain civilian ships up to 5000m.

I still think bigger civilian ships than that should follow the SSD rules in some form because they are so vast.

I like these ideas a lot, but I stress that the Factory Admin will implement or not the way they feel is right, so this is just my opinion.

 

[Itash Mecetti]

I still think bigger civilian ships than that should follow the SSD rules in some form because they are so vast.

While I will always suggest less/no rules over more rules/work, a possible compromise that would work within the current Factory framework is adding a restricted mission.

Stamp ships over x meters (5KM or 10KM or anything else) as 'Mega-Engineering' (Thanks Stellaris) and require a completed story about it. It could even have the same leeway of allowing unique versions pass without the RM completed.

Again, I'd prefer no additional rules or restricted missions, but this could be a potential compromise.

I do like your other suggestions and I think that would be a very viable path forward, while minimizing the work that would need to be put into making this happen.

 

[Scherezade deWinter]

This is an awesome suggestion!

 

[Jsc]

They aren’t military ships- they get no armament,

I've personally never heard of a player using a ship that didn't have guns. Civ or military. But, I suppose we already offer Master rank and characters sheets without review so... Meh. Go for it.

 

[Matreya]

....Am I the only one who has had to have a character jump out of a building because of a ship suicide bombing??

Please, do take that into consideration. For example, two of my characters fly in civilian luxury vehicles. If you undo the restrictions, I could make a massive ship specifically with intent to use it as a weapon at a later time. A super destroyer size ship, regardless of armament, is absolutely lethal.

I agree with the change, just please think of those types of situations!

 

[Matreya]

Ignore.

 

[Rusty]

In general, people are less likely to blow up their toys if they put some sort of work into it. If you create the company equivalent of a flagship/SSD mission, that ought to put a crimp on anyone's plans to crash their 10k megafreighter into a city for kicks and grins.